One thing I would like to add. People get narrow in their magic after decades..... Magic is a highly individualistic hobby. Everyone does their own thing, or should be to some extent, if nothing more than at least presenting things differently. So everyone comes to the forum with preset views.

Sometimes, good can come of putting up with views that seem to counter others' views. Look at my change in my posts above. This helped me to realize the importance of stories in coin magic. So I am just realizing we all need to come to the Magic Café with a little patience. If we were meeting at a coffee shop for a magicians meeting we would probably be more cordial, and also less likely to misunderstand someone. Also, we need to give the older magicians a break. I remember the days of doing magic before the internet and the MC. YOu have to sometimes buy effects on n faith which was often misplaced. So at least now if we chill out a little, we can all learn something. WE all do magic our own way. Let's celebrate that, agree to agree as agreeably as we can, and to give those who don't a little space. They often come around if you do that. Just saying ......

Well put, (but I still hate anyone who disagrees with me!) LOL!!!

Gee, I have been busy...not had a chance to come by and I can't believe this thread is still going.

Let's see...US pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters, Eisenhower dollars British Penny's (I just got a whole bag of new ones that I had to age,) Chinese coins of various colors (which I have often wondered would not be legal tender in China...but I digress,)....of the US, copper clad...just picked up six U and AU 1884, and six silver Kennedy's...I have some Kazakh coins...never had anyone say anything about the Chinese coins despite the fact they had never seen one before.

I have used them with different effects. Recently someone told me that they no longer use any of their silver US coinage for fear of dropping them....perhaps not a bad idea when using close tolerance shells.

I plan on getting a hold of some of Jeff's coins even though at the outset not having given any thought to what effects I will use them in. Why? Simply because I like them.

Why all the fuss? There are tons of magicians amateur and professional. There are tons of magical effects some better than others. I should think the sandbox is big enough for all the children to play in.

Trying to decide between TRESOR and REIALME. Are the teachings basically the same but with different coins or does the instruction in Realmi start where Tresor left off? Should I go whole hog and buy them both? (I am a hobbyist looking to get started with un-gimmicked coin effects.)

Thanks - Steve

Steve,
Tresor has 3 routines and about 20 different moves and techniques that are all about taking the French Drop to a new level. Reialme is 5 routines and other moves and techniques that utilize Edge Grip. They are totally different from each other. You could buy one or the other and decide when to get the next.

I would say Tresor starts out at a beginner level then advances into intermediate and there are a couple of advanced sleights on there. Reialme, on the other hand is more of a challenge. I would say it teaches Edge Grip very well, but the routines are probably more intermediate to advanced.

Plus you get some awesome coins to add in to your collection. Honestly, I'd say go for both if you can do it.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with everything Rick Holcomb has written above. PERFECT review of the two teachings.

I would only add that there is a prejudice against the French drop. It's a baby move - everyone knows it. Your uncle did it when you were 8 and badly. What you get with TRESOR is a real world, easy to master course in NEW uses with the French drop and the work is practical and can be done to groups or one person. REIALME on the other hand is much harder to do for groups and is very angle dependent. You can step back and increase angles but edge grip is tricky and the work is hard for even intermediate students. I urge people to get TRESOR first, unless they are very experienced already withy coin sleights.

Thank you both, Rick & StarManager. You've very clearly answered my questions and put me on the right path.

Best regards - Steve

Pleasure Steve. I have to say that BOTH coin sets and the tutorials are fantastic. Copeland has figured out how tro finally make a contrasting coin to silver which "glows" even in low light situations like bar, restaurant. The TRESOR has an orange hue and throws light well. The REIALME has ridges that catch the light on the face and make it really cool for spellbound type changes. I love both coins and both routines. The "routines are WAY more than routines. These are master classes in component parts of good coin magic. You can learn the "moves" in either and never do the "routines" and you'll become a WAY better coin magician. Have Fun!

What are you talking about? The French Drop is one of the most powerful false transfers around. It is one of the few slights that you can pick up a coin for display immediately ready for the move. It is also essentially part of Spellbound. I suppose you never heard of it. Also it is a move that can capitalize on retention of vision. I use the move in many variations. Here are a couple of places where I use it or something very similar.

https://youtu.be/3wIWJ-cXjb4



https://youtu.be/9S9pavdVRKw

Al let’s agree you jut love to !@#$%! YES the FD is a great thing. YES it is used poorly a LOT. Copeland teaches things that are not in print or have not been shown before. I love your work, Al. I have become a better magician over 40 years because of some of your work. I bow to the GREAT AL SCHNEIDER, BUT What I said was:

"I would only add that there is a prejudice against the French drop. It's a baby move - everyone knows it. Your uncle did it when you were 8 and badly. What you get with TRESOR is a real world, easy to master course in NEW uses with the French drop and the work is practical and can be done to groups or one person."

Everyone please buy Al's books so he can afford his medication.

Jesus Al - you are such an instigator. We're all just trying to help people asking questions. There's a nice AND HUMBLE way to comment. Try it and you might make a friend or two.

I will not blast the new coins you talk about. They are very pretty. But, I thought you might find it fascinating that I struck the dragon coins Todd Lassen has shipped with some of his products. I did the artwork and hired a medallion company to make them. I had thousands made to use in a trick I sold for awhile. Here is a clip of it.

https://youtu.be/NL_isdqiF0A

Al this is what makes you AWESOME man! The MOTIVATION of using the cone is so natural. Your use of Cone as "wand" for the dirty hand is so easy going and natural. This is beautiful art you demonstrate here. Thank you for sharing.

Here is a story you may or may not find fascinating. A long time ago I made Cone and Coins to sell. Put up ads and all that stuff. Something happened with the first one I sold. The customer cut out the address to and from and re-glued them to the package from and to, put a note in the package, and sent it to me. The note said that I cheated him. He paid $25 for the trick and demanded I return his money. He claimed I sent him a fancy coin and some dumb routine. I sent him his money. That unit is the only Cone and Coin I have now. That is the unit I used in the clip. Since then I have had requests from several dealers to get permission to make it. When I explain how it was made they tell me the trouble is not worth it. The cone is made with precision. Ya, I am not polite to a lot of people. Ya I sometimes go off the deep end. But man, I have really been stepped on.

Some day I will tell you what ****ed me off about your post. But today is not that day.

Fair enough Al!

About those coins: silver dollars and half dollars are not just physical objects. They are also money, which people can relate to, which has meaning for people. When Roth says, "I have a silver coin, a half dollar, a fifty-cent piece," people understand that what he is using is money that is of a denomination that is no longer in use, but is still money. It has value and is not just a magic prop, even if they've never seen a half dollar before. How many people have seen an actual Spanish gold doubloon, yet know all about them from all those pirate movies?

This is true as well for foreign currency. If you explain that this is a Mexican centavo or an English penny, they know that it is currency used in a foreign country.

The weird coins offered by Copeland are just that: weird. I suppose you could claim they are used as money in the Magical Land of Alacazam, but no one will believe it or that a Magical Land of Alacazam actually exists. These coins scream PROPS. And if you impress them enough with your magic, just as some spectators will claim, "It went up his sleeve," so will these non-coin coins allow them to believe it is the coins that are doing the magic, and not the magician.

Why do we do pen through dollar bill and not pen through a piece of paper with fancy designs on it? I don't think I have to answer that question.

I notice in the trailer that Copeland, when performing for laymen, uses a silver dollar.

The magic and moves he is offering are one thing. I'll leave it to others to figure out why he includes these strange coins as a package deal.

In the above, forget the part about the pen through dollar. Although there are some valid points to be made about that, in tis case it muddies my argument about the coins.

Ray Haining - Well stated case and one I had before exploring Copeland. And by the way - I am wearing Spanish Doubloon around my neck! The point here is that Copeland came up with really convincing backstory for these coins. You can use as much or little as you choose. But They are just as REAL as an old English Penny is to an American audience or a Half dollar to a British one. In fact a mess-load of people have never seen or touched a real Morgan or Peace Silver dollar in the USA at this point. These strange coins as you call them are useful and show tremendous contrast with deep edges. Much rather use them and the back story than dark brown unreflective "real" coin=s. And these don't need polish. Better grip, better visual changes, better distinction in low light and great training. Copeland is helping us!

I will attempt to boil this down to a few points.

1. What Jeff is doing with his coins is and has not been done to the caliber and quality as seen previously. Take for example Johnson Products; they produced two very widely used and even considered “classic” coin gaffs, the Copper Silver Brass gimmick and the Lethal Tender gimmick. Both of which use a Chinese coin that looks nothing like its historical predecessor. What coin has black paint on it? Yet thousands of people own and perform with these black Chinese coins. They’re fake! They’re totally fake, but the magic is awesome right?

These coins are, in essence, brass washers painted with a little black. Jeff has made a coin out of solid copper (the Tiger coin) and solid steel ( the new Kingdom coin). Plus the design,detail, and story involved is unmatched, period.

2. The magic you do with your props is what is important right? We have all used the Johnson Products gimmicks before, or maybe even own them. We don’t think about that Chinese coin too much, am I right? Because the effect is killer. But more importantly, the audience doesn’t think too much about that Chinese coin either.

There are other companies out there that have made an attempt at making “designer” coins, but in my opinion have fallen short. We have the Artifact coin from Ellusionist, the Grinder coin from Mechanics Industries, and the Grifters coin from Murphy’s magic. All of which are made of either zinc or aluminum, or some other kind of alloy. Plus, they just don’t look good. Then there are a variety of new chinese coins that do look better than the Johnson predecessor, but are still so light weight they feel fake.

3. Consider all the new decks of cards out on the market now. And all the decks that will continue to be released. Does any spectator question these “strange” back designs? NO! They’re normal cards they can touch them, they can examine them, just like they can with the coins Jeff has produced.

And this may be the biggest point. Jeff has tapped an untouched market of “designer” coins. Coins that are well made, of real material, artistically designed and pleasing to the eye. We will continue to see more card designs come out each month, but who is making well designed and well made coins? Jeff Copeland is.

Maybe Jeff can come back in to the conversation and answer some questions. Hmmm?

Jeff what have your customers said about the product? What have people said at the conventions?

Rick you are right on once again!

I hate to just focus on the coins though. The Copeland instruction is really revolutionary too. The two together make Copeland really stand out in the crowd!

Why then not offer both the instructions separately and the coins separately, in addition to the package deal?