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mlippo
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Quote:
On Aug 22, 2018, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Incidentally, and I've written about this many times, so I won't repeat the entire thing here, but - what's apropos here is - I was 19 years old, doing table magic at Billy Reed's Little Club in NYC and it was a routine showing off my memory with cards - WITH A SHUFFLED DECK - that changed my life. Made me realize that memory work was going to be more important career-wise than card magic. So, I do know a little bit about memory work with cards.


Since you're such an expert, you should know perfectly well that memorising on the spot the order of a shuffled pack of cards (something I don't care about and which does NOT belong to this section of the Magic Café) or know a stacked deck system down cold (Aronson, Tamariz, Nikola, Redford, Aragon, and so on) and do magic using its properties, are two completely different things. So don't try that trick on me, please. I'm no clot.

Mark
mlippo
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On Aug 23, 2018, WayneBurrows wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 22, 2018, Nicolino wrote:
Don't you see that we are interested in memorized deck magic here? In effects that would simply never be possible with a borrowed deck? It's utterly useless to recommend not to use a mem deck here when that's what this section was actually made for.


This is not true. One can use memorised deck magic with a borrowed deck. There are ways to build a memorised deck from a borrowed deck. I have a thread at the moment looking for effects I can do as fillers when transforming a borrowed deck into a memorised deck.

In that thread someone mentioned a Harry Lorayne effect that is a variant on Neither Blind nor Stupid, called Blown Further Away, that can be done from a borrowed deck. I have not seen the details of either effect but I did see Seigfried Tieber on Penn and Teller's show which I assumed was done with a memorised deck. I have had my eyes opened to variations that can be done with a partially ordered deck and faro shuffles in the same manner.

I would be interested in Mr Lorayne's thoughts on his Blown Further Away. I would also be very interested in any performance of that effect. Please comment on the thread I started.

Thanks


WayneBurrows,

be careful not to confuse what the audience perceives and what's really going on from your point of view.
Nobody said that you cannot start a memdeck session with a shuffled pack of cards. But once you've used tricks, techniques or what have you to get into half/full stack, then what you do next belongs to the memorised deck world and therefore to the "Shuffled Not Stirred" section of this Forum. Of course, for your audience you're still performing magic with their pack which was thoroughly shuffled at the start, but YOU are now performing in a completely different environment.

So Nicolino is right, in his post above.

Mark
Nicolino
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Of course, one can do memorised deck magic with a borrowed deck. Even better if you are capable of doing so! But it's still mem deck work after all. And not the usual shuffle, cut, fan, pass, dribble, find-the-mate charade we've seen so often in card magic...

By the way, you mention "Neither blind nor silly" which is a great entertaining all-time classic. Wonderful effect!
Please judge for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHuVYa_fVc

"Blown Further Away", on the other hand, is 95% the same. However the setup is done right in front of the audience by outjogging and -stripping the necessary 'magic cards'. You will hence end up performing the effect with only approx. half the deck. I'll leave it to you to decide if you find that more impressive than using a full deck. That's basically the whole difference between "Blown Further Away" and the original.

Quote:
On Aug 23, 2018, Waterloophai wrote:
It is not surprising that people who REALLY work with an MD and do paid performances in the REAL world (and not in their living room) have already left this section for a long time.

Yes, that's actually true. Smile
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WayneBurrows
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Quote:
On Aug 23, 2018, Waterloophai wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 23, 2018, WayneBurrows wrote:
.... One can use memorised deck magic with a borrowed deck. There are ways to build a memorised deck from a borrowed deck.....

It is not surprising that people who REALLY work with an MD and do paid performances in the REAL world (and not in their living room) have already left this section for a long time.


Are you saying that transforming a shuffled deck into memorised order is not worthy magic for a paid performer?

My understanding is that such manipulations have been part of magic performances for a very long time.
Nicolino
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Where on earth did he say so?? Smile
Waterloophai is one of the most proficient (and modest!) experts in mem decks. He'd be the last to say that mem deck work 'is not worthy magic for a paid performer'.

Sorry, but I just had to chime in on that....
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Harry Lorayne
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Oh well - I really didn't want to take up the space, but no choice. Coupla' things... first - Blown Further Away has nothing AT ALL to do with the subject of memdeck. And of course Dear Mr. Nico... makes it appear as if I "stole" the Blown Further Away idea- typical, of course. He never disappoints. Nor does Mr. mlippo: Not a clot? Coulda' fooled me!

What I published in JD1 was a way to do Juan Tamariz's routine that I originally published in APOCALYPSE. It's a way to do many set-ups "impromptuly." THAT was/is the point - I loved Juan's original and wanted to do it with a borrowed deck. (I teach the "impromptuly" way to set up for most any "set-up" effect not only in JAW DROPPERS ONE, but also in JD2 and the upcoming AND FINALLY! - thanks for the plug opportunity, guys!)

And of course FULL CREDIT is given to Juan in Blown Further Away in JAW DROPPERS ONE (you really have to start reading the good stuff, guys!) - here's the line from top of that item: "A deep bow to Juan Tamariz for the wonderful original concept (cover of the July 1987 issue of APOCALYPSE)." And, to repeat, the idea has nothing AT ALL to do with memdecks.

Now, I mentioned a memory stunt with cards that changed my life. Let me stress - it has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with the memdeck idea - i.e: I'm not setting the deck for memdeck work (incidentally - I never bothered with that because I can do MUCH STRONGER effects than those done with a memdeck - with a regular shuffled deck. Effects that I've published over the decades (You really do have to start reading the good sturff!!)

So, aside from the fact that I haven't carried my own deck for decades - I wouldn't bother with memdeck work anyway. Okay...

I was (19/20 years old) doing table magic at The Little Club in NYC. Victor Jory, a well-known actor - at the time - came in many times - with a different friend each time. Now I've written this often (in BEFORE I FORGET for one) each time I wanted to, and did, one different effect for Mr. Jory. I finally ran out of effects, so - thinking I was scratching the bottom of the barrel, I did a memory stunt for him. (I'd been interested in card memory work for some time.)

I had him shuffle the deck as much as he liked. Then he called off the cards at a pretty quick pace. Then I asked him to name any card. When he did I immediately told him to look at the 23rd card from top (without disarranging the deck order) - the named card was there. Did that two or three more times.

Then I had him say any number from 1 to 52. When he did I immediately told him the card that was at that position in the deck. Did that two or three more times.

Then, the ending - asked him if he played poker. "Yes." I asked him "Which is the best poker hand?" He said "royal flush." I asked - "What is your favorite suit?" He said "Spades." I said - "Look at the 19th, 28th, 36th, 41st and 47th cards." He did - to find the five spade royal-flush cards!!

Now, the pivot point, the "point" that changed my life: Mr. Jory stood up, applauding, and raved - "Harry, the sleight-of-hand stuff you did with cards over these past few weeks was/is the best I've ever seen; all my friends feel the same. But this - what you just did..." and he RAVED about the memory feat I just did (and explained here).

THAT changed my life. Made me realize how important the memory work could be - and of course - was.

Hope I've cleared up a point or two. (Doubt it so far as the two "lovelies" are concerned!)
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Russo
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Can anyone tell me the name of the pocket card effect where you show a fan of three cards - the middle is a high card, the back and front cards are small pip cards-'remembering' the middle card- turning the fan over and pulling the middle card out (back up) - turning it over it is a DIFFERENT card . like when fan first shown ,middle was a JACK of spades- when fan turned over and middle card is withdrawn - its the ACE of Spades (or what ever) I've made up an idea and would like to share( should have the name of the effect) Thank You (p/m would be best??) Ralph(russo)Rousseau
Harry Lorayne
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What in the world does this have to do with memdeck work or non-memdeck work? What am I missing?
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Russo
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Sorry Harry - didn't know where to post (81 years old -Computor illiterate- ) RR
Harry Lorayne
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No problem, RR. I've got you beat --- 92 years old and probably more computer illiterate than you are!!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

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Russo
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Found an answere from martyjacobs- thanks - maybe he'll share my (?) idea.
paperinick
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Quote:
On Aug 23, 2018, Nicolino wrote:
Where on earth did he say so?? Smile
Waterloophai is one of the most proficient (and modest!) experts in mem decks. He'd be the last to say that mem deck work 'is not worthy magic for a paid performer'.

Sorry, but I just had to chime in on that....


Stay away from card magic, I've heard coin tricks are the next big thing.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death my right to say "scr*w you" if you persist. [Voltaire Smile]
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