The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » The Widows Gift. (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
Stoltz
View Profile
Veteran user
393 Posts

Profile of Stoltz
First, let me apologize.
I'm sorry for letting you guys down.

But I'm not finished, and I'm not running from this.
I promise to do my best to make things right with every single person who is waiting on stuff.
I will not vanish and try to run away leaving you hanging.

Oliver forgot to mention that the set of cards I sent him (Which where the wrong ones) won't even work.
Because in addition to sending the wrong cards, I got his receiver mixed up with someone else's.

Also, the first Widow that was received arrived broken. This made me re-examine the others before I ship them out.
But they are finished and have been ready to go for a little while now. I just haven't shipped them yet.
Delay after delay, broken promise after broken promise. I never meant for this to happen, I never set out planning to lie to anyone.

I could tell you I've been very busy working as hard as I can, but that would be a lie.
I've been staring at these props instead. My Wife just left me, and I was shell shocked.
But this started before that. Morgan, I am sorry for breaking my promises to you.
I'm sorry to all of you. You have all helped and supported me and my work for a long time and you deserve better.
If you have it in you to forgive me and have mercy, I will make it right.
Lucien Astor
View Profile
Special user
Sunken R'lyeh
652 Posts

Profile of Lucien Astor
Quote:
On Oct 10, 2018, Lo Pan wrote:
This is so unfortunate - sorry to hear this happened to you and saddened to hear we have another troubled purveyor of Bizarre creations. I really hope Cody can sort this mess out.


I don't come on here very often anymore, or engage in any Café politics.

But I do remember when when Cody was called out several years ago for pirating & distributing copies of proprietary creations by Alchemy Moon and Prof BC. I also distinctly remember him apologizing when he knew he wouldn't get away with it, and proclaiming to the brethren that he wouldn't be designing props anymore. He announced his indefinite retirement. No moral judgement, just a factual event that transpired.

So I have been watching this unfold with detached interest, and reflecting on the short memory this place seems to exhibit.
http://www.mediumarts.ca: Psychic Entertainment & Contemporary Art
Stoltz
View Profile
Veteran user
393 Posts

Profile of Stoltz
No Lucien that is incorrect.
Chris forgot he gave permission to make your own copies of the Cussing cards, it just so happened not everyone can.
So I made two copies for people who already owned sets. I never distributed anything, nor made a dime off of them.
I created them as backups for pre-existing owners, which was permitted and certainly not piracy.

Regarding making something owned by Prof BC. that is also untrue, I made my own Lovely Lucy for myself and have NEVER distributed them to anyone. The only exception was when Rick and the Prof had troubles, Rick asked me to make a couple to fulfill previous orders. I did not pirate anything. I had permission from Outlaw to make those. However, perhaps Rick did not have the authority to permit such a thing. But back then, how could I have known.

Your memory of events is distorted and specious.
Stoltz
View Profile
Veteran user
393 Posts

Profile of Stoltz
I also never apologized, because I had done nothing wrong.

Also, the reason I quite last time was because I discovered Outlaw had sold several of my products without informing me and then threw me under the bus as if I wasn't fulfilling orders. But of course once there's a bandwagon people often feel compelled to pile one, because that's just how things go. But enough people believed those lies and crippled me financially and left me with no other choice but to go elsewhere.
Lucien Astor
View Profile
Special user
Sunken R'lyeh
652 Posts

Profile of Lucien Astor
If I am wrong I apologize.

But wasn't it three copies of the Elite sets, rather than the Kings set that Chris allowed people to download?
http://www.mediumarts.ca: Psychic Entertainment & Contemporary Art
Stoltz
View Profile
Veteran user
393 Posts

Profile of Stoltz
I do recall the first instance when someone shared their creation of a Kings set turned Elite.
This was met with praise and approval. I remember Chris providing that Download yes which seemed to encourage and make it easier to do. I did not need that download. As far as I am aware, many people where reluctant to actually perform with the Elites and so creating backups of these seemed even more pertinent. I don't see making backups which where never sold as piracy. Certainly this did not harm Chris' sales, nor conflict with him generously making it easier for people to make their own sets. The worst thing I think I can be accused of is taking liberty in assuming people would give me the benefit of the doubt.
Stoltz
View Profile
Veteran user
393 Posts

Profile of Stoltz
And even if you allow that maybe Chris' tacit approval of creating your own sets was an incorrect assumption on my part,
You have certainly miss-characterized my actions as insidious rather than at worst a misunderstanding. I did not make any money off of these things. I did not sell them. Chris gave approval to making Cussing Cards, he even provided a download to make it easier. I don't think what I did was out of line with the spirit of what everyone else was already doing.
What made things look bad was that I also made backups for two other people, and even made spoof COAs stating they where fakes. I would NEVER have tried to pass them off as the real deal, nor would I have sold them.
Lucien Astor
View Profile
Special user
Sunken R'lyeh
652 Posts

Profile of Lucien Astor
I will not speak to issues of intellectual property, and reproducing & creating copies of work you were never given permission to make. Not just make, but also distribute to friends. All of your understanding of unspoken, un-given, perceived permissions aside.

Won't mention it again. Sorry.
http://www.mediumarts.ca: Psychic Entertainment & Contemporary Art
Stoltz
View Profile
Veteran user
393 Posts

Profile of Stoltz
When the first guy made his copy, it occurred BEFORE Chris gave any permission.
Chris was fine with it, and even made it easier to do, after the fact. I would think this establishes a precedence.
He said people could make clones or upgrades to their cards, this is exactly what I did.
Your quibble is over which version he explicitly gave overt permission for.

It's funny you say you won't speak of it, and then that's exactly what you did.
I don't remember you being upset that others made copies of intellectual property that they had not been given permission to make back then. And as far as "Distributing" goes, I do not believe backup copies qualify.
ManxBull
View Profile
New user
Isle of Man
64 Posts

Profile of ManxBull
I've ordered and received some spectacularly good pieces from Cody: 13 Ghosts (not the recent limited version, the one sold through LC a couple of years back); Dominus Vox; Spirit, and most wonderful of all, The W0rm. Each one a masterpiece, and I really got my money's worth.

Then disappointment set in. I ordered Nightmares on its day of release back in March, and have yet to receive it. I was told my order had been somehow overlooked and promised a rapid delivery two months ago, but still nothing.

I have to weigh this against the ingenuity, the craftsmanship and the good service received previously.

It's obvious things are in a mess. Life often makes a mess of things. Are we to believe Cody when he says he'll make things right?

I certainly think he means to. But I'd caution that putting things right when we're in a mess can take more than we imagine or hope they might. I still want my Nightmares, it looks like a wonderful effect. I'm going to take Cody at his word, but I'm asking him not to over-promise. Do what you can to set things in order, but if it's going to be another 6 months till I see my product, tell me it's likely to be another 6 months, with updates along the way. That way I'll know, and as long as you're honest about what you're doing and where you're at, I'm fine with that.

I stress that I'm only speaking for myself here, but the money isn't the thing. No matter what happens, I'm not going to demand a refund at any stage. Some might think I'm naive to be saying that you have carte blanche to basically forget about my order and keep the money if you're the type of person to do that. But that's a measure of my trust in you and in your craftsmanship. I think and hope you'll keep everyone informed, be honest about your schedule (I'm very patient as long as I'm kept informed) and deliver the goods as and when you're able. Because you're doing it for the honour of Cody Stoltz.

Obviously, I can't speak for anyone else or their wishes, but I don't think Cody is a crook, although matters are certainly in a muddle at the moment.
Seth speaks
View Profile
Inner circle
New Mexico
1053 Posts

Profile of Seth speaks
Cody, I’m so sorry to hear about your relationship troubles—that is painful beyond description. Sending good thoughts so that you are able to come to a mutually happy resolution.

I agree that those of a heavily artistic temperament may sometimes struggle with left-brained stuff like logistics and matters of business. To avoid a fate anything like Rick, I think it would be best if you temporarily ceased taking all further orders, of anything, while you work on completing existing orders. Once those are all confirmed to be resolved, then you can begin taking orders again, hopefully with a friend or partner on board to assist with the business end of things. That’s just my suggestion.

You create some incredible stuff, man! Gotta make sure it gets to folks who bought it...

Seth
Winks
View Profile
Special user
Arizona
590 Posts

Profile of Winks
I originally ordered Nightmares way back in March. After hearing nothing and getting NO response from Cody - and Dan at Lebanon getting no response either - I asked for a refund which Dan gave me. My instincts, after getting screwed by Roth the outlaw, told me to avoid Cody. Something did not smell good. It was right after this that Cody went rogue and Dan cancelled whatever business relationship he had with Cody. Now, as it turns out, my instincts were right and Dan was smart.

I'm sorry that Cody has relationship issues. Been there done that. But here is the thing - Cody was delivering nothing prior to his wife leaving him; that just happened. So, from March until October, he had taken people's money and delivered nothing. No excuse for that. None. And now he tries to obfuscate that issue by getting involved in a big discussion above about what rights he had or did not have to produce items. Smke screen far as I am concerned. I think you all better really consider filing a complaint with Paypal if it is not too late and protect yourselves in some way. Too many of us did do that with Roth and we got totally screwed over. Promises, promises, lies, and more lies. And now it looks like the same thing with Cody. Sorry, but that is the way it looks. If it walks like a duck and sh8ts like a duck it's a duck.
Winks
View Profile
Special user
Arizona
590 Posts

Profile of Winks
To clarify, I did not seek a refund with Nightmares until the end of April - that after being promised it would be delivered right away in March.
Lucien Astor
View Profile
Special user
Sunken R'lyeh
652 Posts

Profile of Lucien Astor
Quote:
On Oct 11, 2018, Stoltz wrote:
When the first guy made his copy, it occurred BEFORE Chris gave any permission.
Chris was fine with it, and even made it easier to do, after the fact. I would think this establishes a precedence.
He said people could make clones or upgrades to their cards, this is exactly what I did.
Your quibble is over which version he explicitly gave overt permission for.

It's funny you say you won't speak of it, and then that's exactly what you did.
I don't remember you being upset that others made copies of intellectual property that they had not been given permission to make back then. And as far as "Distributing" goes, I do not believe backup copies qualify.


1) "When the first guy made his copy, it occurred BEFORE Chris gave any permission." - Wrong. He modified and distressed a purchased set.
2) "Chris was fine with it, and even made it easier to do, after the fact." - Wrong. Chris created a downloadable version of a particular set with instructions on how to age/distress it. You somehow mechanically reproduced three copies of a set you never had permission to do so with. Permission is the operative word. You don't assume consent, you ask for it.
3) "He said people could make clones or upgrades to their cards, this is exactly what I did." - Wrong. He said people could modify their cards. He never did, never would, and never will advocate people 'cloning' his intellectual property. Don't equivocate, it makes your disingenuousness more apparent.
4)"I don't remember you being upset that others made copies of intellectual property that they had not been given permission to make" - Tell me more about these other copies of intellectual property. I'll be just as incensed at those. For my day job I work in the arts, and nothing is more loathsome than the theft of intellectual property. You didn't make knock-offs or something original but derivative... you directly copied something and gave them to others. That's stealing, and if I need to explain it to you I'll just throw my hands in the air. You could man-up, admit it, and apologize, but you keep making excuses & justifications. I only made my original post to give a context to your professional practice for new members. I never spoke to your character, but you have certainly done so.
http://www.mediumarts.ca: Psychic Entertainment & Contemporary Art
Christopher Gould
View Profile
Special user
in special pants.
980 Posts

Profile of Christopher Gould
Like Lucian - I rarely, if ever get involved in disputes on the Café. However, on this issue I need to set the record straight for my customers, and clear up any confusion on this.

In short, Lucian has it right in the previous post.
I like to think that I am always generous with my IP's - and I actively encourage community involvement in my works, in terms of community taking a part in adding to and extending the life of these pieces, and I will always do what I can to help with this.

However, there is a line in the sand that needs to be drawn here. When I make what I call an 'Elite' item, it is sold on the understanding that this is a unique, hand crafted piece of work. Such items normally have a limited run and people buy these knowing this. I never make limited runs to drive the price up, or increase the value on the grey market. Usually, the number of a run directly relates to exhaustion on my part....but to me limited run means just that.
Anyone who has bought a CC Elite set - and hearing that I gave permission to every man and his dog to make their own sets would be justifiably annoyed. Believe me, I have been offered some serious cash to make 'just one more set' of the original CC Elites - these offers I have always turned down and always will.

So for the record. I gave permission for *owners* of the old CC 'non-elite' sets to ENHANCE the sets *they already own* - not to go into production with my IP. The only 'precedent' I set was to help people get the most out of their purchase. I think Mr Stolz is setting his own unique presidents in all else. I am aware that many could not afford the price of the Elite sets (a hand made set takes time and carries a hefty price tag). I did not want anyone to be barred from performing with their own unique set due to financial constraints. Sharing the files from the cheaper sets (which were an entirely different design from the Elite sets) seemed like a good compromise to me. I have no problems with legitimate customers enhancing their sets, and will assist them where possible.

To reassure those who have a signed and numbered copy of the Elite CC - this was NEVER done with an Elite set. If you have an authentic CC Elite set, that is EXACTLY what it should be.

So - although I do not want to contribute to a debate - I want to assure my customers - old and new - that I am a straight shooter - If I say something, I mean it. The Elite CC sets were a limited edition and I have always kept to my word on this. Furthermore, I will always be clear about what is a limited run and what is not and will keep to my word on the numbers that I make.

This is an important point for my own credibility and respect for my customers, so I would like to thank Lucian for bringing up valid points and to the person who alerted me to this thread.
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com
RCP
View Profile
Inner circle
Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
2092 Posts

Profile of RCP
With no commentary about anyone in particular. We have all seen this so many times. A well meaning person gets into the "custom magic" business. It's cool and fun UNTIL life gets in the way. Money long spent, supplies no longer available, lost interest.............etc. Use PayPal, file disputes and hope for the best.
Winks
View Profile
Special user
Arizona
590 Posts

Profile of Winks
I see that Cody is not responding. Took a page from Roth's book.
David Eichler
View Profile
Grammar Host
Durham, ME
1623 Posts

Profile of David Eichler
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2018, Christopher Gould wrote:
Like Lucian - I rarely, if ever get involved in disputes on the Café. However, on this issue I need to set the record straight for my customers, and clear up any confusion on this.

In short, Lucian has it right in the previous post.
I like to think that I am always generous with my IP's - and I actively encourage community involvement in my works, in terms of community taking a part in adding to and extending the life of these pieces, and I will always do what I can to help with this.

However, there is a line in the sand that needs to be drawn here. When I make what I call an 'Elite' item, it is sold on the understanding that this is a unique, hand crafted piece of work. Such items normally have a limited run and people buy these knowing this. I never make limited runs to drive the price up, or increase the value on the grey market. Usually, the number of a run directly relates to exhaustion on my part....but to me limited run means just that.
Anyone who has bought a CC Elite set - and hearing that I gave permission to every man and his dog to make their own sets would be justifiably annoyed. Believe me, I have been offered some serious cash to make 'just one more set' of the original CC Elites - these offers I have always turned down and always will.

So for the record. I gave permission for *owners* of the old CC 'non-elite' sets to ENHANCE the sets *they already own* - not to go into production with my IP. The only 'precedent' I set was to help people get the most out of their purchase. I think Mr Stolz is setting his own unique presidents in all else. I am aware that many could not afford the price of the Elite sets (a hand made set takes time and carries a hefty price tag). I did not want anyone to be barred from performing with their own unique set due to financial constraints. Sharing the files from the cheaper sets (which were an entirely different design from the Elite sets) seemed like a good compromise to me. I have no problems with legitimate customers enhancing their sets, and will assist them where possible.

To reassure those who have a signed and numbered copy of the Elite CC - this was NEVER done with an Elite set. If you have an authentic CC Elite set, that is EXACTLY what it should be.

So - although I do not want to contribute to a debate - I want to assure my customers - old and new - that I am a straight shooter - If I say something, I mean it. The Elite CC sets were a limited edition and I have always kept to my word on this. Furthermore, I will always be clear about what is a limited run and what is not and will keep to my word on the numbers that I make.

This is an important point for my own credibility and respect for my customers, so I would like to thank Lucian for bringing up valid points and to the person who alerted me to this thread.


Chris is, and always has been, one of the few shining stars in our world. His integrity is without question.
Wizard of Oz
View Profile
Inner circle
Most people wish I didn't have
4956 Posts

Profile of Wizard of Oz
Amen.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Lo Pan
View Profile
Special user
Haven't slept in weeks - but I now have
597 Posts

Profile of Lo Pan
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2018, Winks wrote:
I see that Cody is not responding. Took a page from Roth's book.
m

Cody has responded profusely - let’s wait and see what comes of if.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » The Widows Gift. (10 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2018 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.17 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL