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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Using memorised deck to force a card (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

WayneBurrows
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Does anyone have any ideas to use a memorised deck to force a card?

I have thought of using ACAAN to do this. Say I want to force the c8, I get a spectator to choose any number then use an ACAAN technique with a memorised deck to put the card in their numbered position.

I am wondering if anyone has any other ideas that might achieve this.
Cain
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Your questions seem to be working against each other here (and I assume c8 is the 8C, or Eight of Clubs). There's forcing a card using a memorized deck, and forcing a card for an ACAAN. Forcing a card using the MD is usually like forcing from a non-memorized deck. The key advantage for a memorized stack is that you know the positions of all of the cards, so you can quickly and seamlessl get the target card in its force position (such as on the bottom, on top, or in the middle with a break held above it). A typical sort of ACAAN involves the magician imperceptibly moving a freely named card to a freely named number.

More in line with your thinking are the handlings where a spectator freely chooses a number, and then the magician mentally/verbally forces the card at that stack position using equivoque. I've performed it that way exactly once for a room full of lay-people... and it got a tremendous reaction. The version I used is from Mark James' DVDs Supercharged Classics. The card is not physically forced USING a mem-deck. The mem-deck just provides a critical piece of information that allows one to force mentally.

You could, to use a simple illustration separate from ACAAN, have someone freely select a card from your memorized deck, and then force the mate of the selected card on a second spectator using your favorite method.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
WayneBurrows
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Let me try and clarify. Any Card At Any Number allows you to find any card at any place in the deck. Therefore if I want to force a card, for example the eight of clubs (I think club eight c8 and eight of clubs 8C are synonymous), then using the same technique as ACAAN I can place the forced card at a named number position.

So instead of Any Card At Any Number we have Forced Card At Any (spectators chosen) Number. That is by just getting the spectator to choose any number I can force a card on the spectator.

I was wondering if there were any other forces that were unique to a memorised deck.
Cain
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OK, so you want the spectator to freely choose a number, and then you want to force the card in that specific stack position? If so, then that's similar to Mark James' routine mentioned earlier.

If instead you want a spectator to freely choose any number, and then have the card at that number be Eight of Clubs (or whatever), then I think it's a wrong-headed approach.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
WayneBurrows
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I wanted the second option. I wanted to force the eight of clubs. I did this by giving a free choice of number and cutting the eight of clubs to that position. Maybe you are right that it is the wrong way around but I had a context in which it seemed right.

I needed a particular card forced. It could have been just about any card but I needed to know in advance for set up purposes. I could have forced the card by another method but I started wondering if I could use the properties of a memorised deck to force the card I wanted since it was a memorised deck routine.
Ferry Gerats
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Quote:
On Sep 11, 2018, Cain wrote:

More in line with your thinking are the handlings where a spectator freely chooses a number, and then the magician mentally/verbally forces the card at that stack position using equivoque. I've performed it that way exactly once for a room full of lay-people... and it got a tremendous reaction. The version I used is from Mark James' DVDs Supercharged Classics. The card is not physically forced USING a mem-deck. The mem-deck just provides a critical piece of information that allows one to force mentally.



Are you sure about your reference to the Mark James' DVDs Supercharged Classics? I couldn't find the version where the card is mentally forced.
Cain
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On Sep 12, 2018, Ferry Gerats wrote: Are you sure about your reference to the Mark James' DVDs Supercharged Classics? I couldn't find the version where the card is mentally forced.


Not anymore! I checked the table of contents online and didn't see ACAAN in either of the volumes. I'm pretty sure I don't own anything else from him. I searched my notes for "ACAAN" and I have written down a sketch of the procedure but no creator or source! I want to say whoever taught it was at a stage with beige-ish curtain in the background. He has a spectator only think of a number, then he invites the person on stage to applause, and that's when he talks to the spectator (under the cover of the applause) that makes the routine work (it's NOT an instant stooge). This may have been a lecture DVD; I want to say the performer was definitely British (then again I want to say it was Mark James, but he doesn't show up in Google searches with ACAAN). I'd be grateful if someone could identify the source.

In my search of the notes I also found something that might be of interest to the original poster. It involves forcing a card in a manner that is unique to a mem-stack. Here's trailer that does not tip the procedure/method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDtaJ4g6bk

I've never done it before (and I don't plan to), but I thought it was methodologically interesting enough to write down.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
dyoung
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Cain: Colin McLeod has explored that approach on his Opening Minds dvds... I think.

//Dan
Cain
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That's it, Dan! Dude's Scottish, and the curtain is red.

Here's a link to a performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-eTeROMKaA
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
WayneBurrows
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I don't like the jump from odd card to 3and 5 or 7 and 9. What about the ace and the pictures?
tomd
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On Sep 15, 2018, WayneBurrows wrote:
I don't like the jump from odd card to 3and 5 or 7 and 9. What about the ace and the pictures?

Weird, I came away thinking "wow, great force!"

Totally forgot about the picture cards.. but that might be because I was very impressed by the later stages of the procedure, he played it off well.
WayneBurrows
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Yes the routine was good.

However, when a person uses equivoque and then only shows the most favourable answers it is hard to see and know how good the routine is in general.
Cain
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On Sep 17, 2018, WayneBurrows wrote:
and then only shows the most favourable answers it is hard to see and know how good the routine is in general.


What're you talking about, man? That audience gave him grief after the first spectator selection. Then more **** after the paper ball was thrown. And not all of the answers were optimal in narrowing down the card; if it seemed that way, then it's just a testament to how good he is. I'd only criticize the red deck coming out of the blue box (but that's an easy fix).
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
WayneBurrows
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The spectator selection was just jesting and he stuck with his selection as did the spectator with the person he had thrown the ball to.

Would you take out the red or the black? The black.

And you throw some on the table, what do you throw on the table? Clubs.

Imagine they land in perfect order, you've got odd cards you've got even cards. We have got to eliminate. What do you prefer even or odd? odd

The even are gone. So you've got the low ones the 3 the 5 and the high ones the 7 and the 9. You can turn any two face down. 7 and 5.

Imagine you mix them around. You hand me one card. Which one do you hand to me? The five.

This is your one chance do you want to keep the seven of clubs. Yes.

Yes I admit you are right there are some answers that were not the best and I was lulled into feeling they were the best answers by his performance.

What is with the colours of the casinos - a blue one a red one a yellow one and a red one???
Cain
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Quote:
On Sep 17, 2018, WayneBurrows wrote:
What is with the colours of the casinos - a blue one a red one a yellow one and a red one???


It's presumably the same logic: the spectators are lulled into thinking they have a free choice... because the first two scenarios are genuinely free. Having now seen the routine again after all these years, I'd consider adding a couple of bits (off the top of my head). One is an old throwaway joke: After having them spin the roulette wheel, I might say, "Spin it again -- make sure it's not a trick wheel." After bringing the first spectator on stage, I'd ask what color casino he ventured into and then select a spectator who went into the same one (or a different one, whatever).
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
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