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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Hey all! Long time no see! I’ve been working on my persona and show lately. I know I need to slow down and I am meditating for it. Watch a bit and let me know what you think. Thanks guys.
https://youtu.be/xV9iAURdhWs |
Futureal Inner circle 1695 Posts |
A tie but not shoes. Interesting choice.
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I remember you asking for support several years ago*. When the video first started I thought you made a big change. As I watched more, I said to myself, "No he did not change."
It sounds like you are getting a lot of laughter from the kids and adults. I personally am not comfortable with the words you use in front of children, (booger, murder, spit and poop). Of course it is your prerogative. If your style plays strong with entertainment like that in your area of Montana, do what you think is best. I can see why that one boy did not want to shake your hand 6' 30". It seems like it was from the gross words you previously mentioned. I would not have been so physically rough on the children. When you were pushing that sponge ball in his face, you could have accidentally poke him in his eye 2' 30". Shaking the other boy's hand in a rough way could have hurt him. If slowing down will have you not be rough with the children I recommend you keep meditating on it. Lighting the floor on fire at at 26' 40" was dangerous. Imagine if any of the fabric around you would have caught on fire. I saw boys with no shoes on walking on that stage area. You putting lighter fluid on the floor is not safe for anyone's feet. I am not going to mention anything about you using fire in your show in front of kids because I know it will go in one ear and come out the other. * The thread with the gential design on your logo years ago: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0 |
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Another thing too. The way you refer to those two sponge balls have me thinking a different image. Why not refer to them as clown noses?
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
1. good energy
2. please wear actual shoes 3. you need to call them sponge balls or something other than just "balls" (for goodness sake) 4. when showing ball 1 disappeared that was good. when you reached in and pulled out a ball fro the other hand to show 2, that was bad. just slowly open your hand. don't bring them together. 5. spongeball slights really need a lot of work. hands come together too much when giving 1 (2) to the kid. 6. I like you got down low with the child. 7. you seem disorganized in what you pick up, put down, move around, etc. 8. you spilled lighter fluid all over the floor. you need a funnel? also the can of lighter fluid doesn't look very.... show worthy. 9. overall not very polished you have great energy and a great personality. Polish your act, improve your sleights, perform some tricks that are "up and out" (bigger). Do all that, put on a pair of shoes and you'll do great.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
jdstewart New user 36 Posts |
First I applaud your courage. Putting your video out and asking for comments takes a lot of courage. I will try to refrain from comments on my preferences. They will not be helpful to you. The question is not rather or not I like it. That is not germane. We have different taste. The question is were your choices effective artistically.
My first suggestion is to define your blocking better. Minimize your movements to communicate your message. Move with intention. Make every movement meaningful. My second suggestion is to work on your character definition. Several comments were made on no shoes. That is an artistic choice. It could be a strong artistic choice. To understand that I need to understand your character better. I am not asking you to explain it. The fact I need to ask the question is the problem. What does your character want? Why does he do what he does? If you have a chance to see Carisa Hendrix Lecture on character development I would suggest it. It is great. Short of that, I would suggest watching this video https://youtu.be/kHpXle4NqWI I hope this is helpful. |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 5, 2018, jdstewart wrote: I agree, but since he did and is asking other experienced performers, I see no problem in assisting him with insights. I've followed Kameron for several years now and am familiar with him and his show and place of business. First, it is important to remember everything starts at the foundational level where every performer must ask themselves some important foundational questions. Important because everything they do and progress with will be based on these questions and decisions. Many performers miss this step or aren't even aware of it. The thing with Kameron, and I like him, but this is just something that anyone that has followed him will quickly realize - he creates everything around himself - want he wants, what he thinks and what he perceives. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but it is what it is. He wanted the look, the dreadlocks, the facial hair, the free-spirited persona, the bare feet, and of course the fire. These are choices he has made and everything is based on these choices. I think because of this his performance comes off very free-form and perhaps less structure-appearing than many other kids performers. He seems to like "breaking the rules" as I suspect this is his personality. It shows in this video, probably as he intended. He built what he wants and sees himself as - good for him. In that sense what many here have to say may not make much of a difference to him. However, when we are building our performance as a business (which if you followed his past history he is) we must look beyond just what we think, what we like and what we want, and also look at things from the customer's point of view and perception, as well as the audience, the parents (who are the paying clients), the bookers of venues and events who may book him. My point is when performing as a business there are many other considerations much more than just our own personal preferences. We must serve our market, our targets and the demographic. To me, this has always been what seems missing here. I know he complains about his area, lack of bookings, limited opportunities and even people. This is all the more reason to consider all of these other perspectives to create the best possible positioning and opportunities for yourself and your business. Again, good for him to post and ask for such feedback. Good to hear from him again. I just think he often puts his own limits on himself which is something I would think about. |
jdstewart New user 36 Posts |
Mindpro, I think you have made several good points. I would like to build on them, if I may.
1) Creating everything about himself could be a strong and interesting character choice. But I did not get that from the video. That did not seem to motivate his character. To be honest I am not sure what does. That is why I suggested he concentrate on character development. I can think about many characters who made it all about themselves yet were interesting, even lovable. One of the strongest is Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory. 2) Breaking the rules can also be an interesting character choice. That could also be an interesting message. What are the results of breaking the rules? Is breaking the rules good or bad? Are all rules to be broken? Is it good to break rules just to break rules? There is a sameness to most children's performers. Breaking the rule has the POTENTIAL to make him an attractive entertainment choice. (caps for emphasis, I am not yelling) 3) To be honest I do not care rather or not Kameron takes any of the suggestions. I find it valuable to see what others say. I find it valuable to have others respectfully disagree with me. I learn things. We can all improve. Or at least I can. I guess that makes it is all about me ;-) 4) I agree 150% that if you are building a business you have to provide something customers are willing to buy. If you do not, you do not have a business you have a hobby. To restate the point I made in number 2 above, there is a sameness not just in children performers but most magicians. We need to find our unique voice. There is a comfort in doing things the way everyone else does. But when we do that, we become a commodity. We become interchangeable with any other magician. Why should anyone care which magician they hire if we are all the same? That is not a sustainable business model. I contend audiences (yes even parents) are looking for something unique, something different. I contend they are willing to pay a premium for it too. |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On Oct 5, 2018, jdstewart wrote: Sure, I agree about many unique and interesting characters that have "made it" but I believe many of these APPEAR to have made it all about themselves when in reality they've done so still within the interests, perimeters and boundaries of the markets they serve. They do so within these to still be viable and have the appeal and interest they need to be successful. This is much different than just doing "what you want" and it actually be prohibitive or work against your success in both your performance market(s) as well as your geographical markets. I'm not sure the breaking the rules approach or rebel approach is the best choice for a kids entertainer. As parents they certainly do not want this message being projected to their kids, working against their parenting efforts. As for the sameness with kids performers, I completely agree, however, there are many, many ways to be different and unique while still remaining within the perceived boundaries and "rules" for this type of performer. I know some people get bent at the idea of "rules" pertaining to anything, but these perimeters are there for a reason and these are almost always tied directly to expectation, which is something every performer must understand and accept in business. Going against the tide will almost always assure a bumpy, rough ride. It does bother me too that so many kids magicians are cookie-cutter, and the sameness you describe. Look at all the posts in this forum, 95% are about tricks, hardly ever anything about positioning, business, relations, education and so on. Kids magicians always seem to think it's about the tricks or the magic. It should be about the entertainment, perception, value, trust, and meeting the expectations set by the market and its customers. A good kids performer should not have to rely on the tricks or execution of the tricks to be entertaining. They should just be the tool or vehicle used. It is a shame that posts here about tricks get many replies, responses, and insights, but look at how few actually want to talk about this topic or the real important issues of being a kids performer. Yes, each performer needs to find their own voice and that should be established in the original foundational level as I mentioned earlier. There are still many ways to be original and unique within the expectations of the market and clients. While you say you believe audiences want something unique and different, I think they want something entertaining, professional and safe first and foremost, then if it happens to be different or unique so be it. I know some try so hard to be different and unique, they lose sight of what is truly of most importance and interest to the client and the market. Being a kids performer is both an art and a science. |
TrickyRicky Inner circle TrickyRicky 1653 Posts |
It sounds like you are getting a lot of laughter from the kids and adults. I personally am not comfortable with the words you use in front of children, (booger, murder, spit and poop). Of course it is your prerogative. If your style plays strong with entertainment like that in your area of Montana, do what you think is best.
Lighting the floor on fire at at 26' 40" was dangerous. Imagine if any of the fabric around you would have caught on fire. I saw boys with no shoes on walking on that stage area. You putting lighter fluid on the floor is not safe for anyone's feet. I am not going to mention anything about you using fire in your show in front of kids because I know it will go in one ear and come out the other. There is too much to mention on improving your performance so I won't get into it. Most magician post their video and ask for advise, in truth, they really want to hear how good their act is. All the posters advise were excellent, but Dynamike was right on with his comment on using fire in your act and I'll bet after the advise he gave you--it's still in your act. Fire with torches and lighter fluid are the most dangerous things you can have in a room and with all that cloth material around. As the saying goes (You're playing with fire). I remember a children magician was bragging to me how he has one of the best departing trick when he is leaving the party. He would wait till all the kids are sitting at the table signing happy birthday, he'd pop a tube of streamers and toss it over the chandelier or whatever is hanging on the ceiling. It makes a great picture he says. I advised him not to do it for the streamers are very flammable and if one strand touches the candle, you could have a fire. To make a long story short--guess what? I personally don't use fire in my shows, there so many materials out there to use for children entertainment that I don't need those put myself in a bad situation. I'll bet in that video, after the show was over and the laughter died down, the parents came to their senses and comment on how close you came to burn the place down. Tricky Ricky |
charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 6, 2018, TrickyRicky wrote: This cannot be stated often enough or loud enough! This was extremely dangerous and should never be done regardless of who is in the audience. It was reckless! Regarding the rest of the performance, it explains why Kameron has the perceptions of lack of market opportunities in his area. His artistic decisions leaves him at best as a very niched performer. The use of fire places so many restrictions and limitations on performing venues, and client types. While I know of very successful performers who are edgy in the children’s market and have been successful “breaking the rules”, Kameron’s performance goes to a whole new level - one disconnected with today’s sensibilities. Kameron is able to connect with his audience in ways many performers fail to achieve. For this reason alone I believe he has potential to be a successful performer. I was surprised at the awkwardness of his prop placement in the back corner. I believe this was his stage at his place. Someone who has been performing as long as he has and having grown up as a child of a fellow magician should be far more polished. It makes me wonder if he refuses advice along those lines as well. |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
As someone who has coached and mentored hundreds of performers, every once in a while I come across someone who simply doesn't care or listen to sound advice from myself or others. They think they know better or just want to do what they want to do. I see this the most in performers that have their own venue.
I see it as very frustrating when they could actually be earning upper 5 or 6 figure incomes, but instead, find themselves struggling just to survive but remaining hell-bent on remaining true to their own preferences. I have seen guys lose their business, spouse and even families due to this. It can have lasting consequences. This is what I meant earlier when I said he creates, wants and does everything around himself (the me-based approached). Obviously, he likes fire, he thinks its cool, edgy. He likes that type of an image. So much so that it supersedes what is best on all other levels - to the venue (including his own - I bet his insurance company isn't aware of this in his performance), to the parents, to the safety of the kids, etc. Now I'm sure he will tell you "well they love it. I hear from kids and parents that they love it and think its cool." This is exactly why you can't listen to what people say to you after a show as it is very biased and not truly representative of everyone and the true picture. Those upset, disappointed or dissatisfied will likely not complain or say anything, so their perspective is never heard, considered or understood. Yet they will speak poorly of you to others once they leave your venue or show. This is one of the problems in trying to be different. There are ways to do it and ways not to do it that will work against you. At this point in his performing career, and with the background he has, you can start to see the limitations he's ultimately putting on himself. Anyone 5 or 10 years into something should be working all 5 types of bookings in their operations and be experiencing growth and progress far beyond what appears here. It's not just about the performance and his material but the business behind all of it. That is where the success is made. For a hobbyist that is just doing it to please themselves fine, do what you want. You are not taking anyone's money and there is no skin in the game (however it is still dangerous and comes with risk). However, the moment you accept money or payment for your services, there becomes expectation and professionalism which you must meet (and hopefully exceed to be good in business). Having the experience to coach, consult and train performers for nearly four decades now, I can see Kameron being 35, 40 and older still trying to be cool, hip, edgy and it will only lead to more frustration professionally. There is also a point that I have found that the image overtakes the ability to actually see the talent and skills being presented. This too should be of great concern. As said earlier I give him credit for coming here and posting this. I am not sure why he does it as everytime he pops into the Café, many offer very good, sound advice that he usually then discards, claims he isn't understood, and quickly dismisses the advice and leaves angry or frustrated to continue to keep doing what he wants how he wants. I know several have offered to assist him, but there doesn't seem to be any interest. I still wish him the best but just can't help to wonder how much better his business could be with just a few different changes and adjustments? |
Frosty Loyal user Texas 245 Posts |
I'm no professional magician but I thought his performance was hilarious and very entertaining... His character is great too! In my opinion all he needs is a colorful banner or backdrop that fits his character and style..
The angle of the camera was terrible so it gives an illusion of his act looking unprofessional on video... Just my thoughts.. |
professortango Regular user 117 Posts |
The energy level is great, but its not clean. Not everything needs to have a polished set show feel, but the patter is clearly roughly sketched out and lacking clear moments. I've noticed the more all over the place you are for kids parties, the more they can take over your act and derail you. As a performer for kids, you need to have energy but also control as focus and audience etiquette aren't at peak levels for kids.
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Frosty Loyal user Texas 245 Posts |
OK, I hadn't seen the part with the fire... cuz the video was too long LOL!
I have kids and seeing him recklessly perform with fire, I would never hire him to perform at my house.. not even with fire insurance... |
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Kameron, I noticed you have not responded back to this thread from all the other post supplied to you. Is it because of one of the following:
1. You decided to change something but want to keep it to yourself? 2. You don't care about the members comments and going to keep everything the same? 3. You just wanted to fool all the members by posting to get attention by showing your full show? 4. You are waiting for someone to post, "You did an excellent job." 5. You are locked up right now from causing an accidental felony at a different show from using fire? If it's one of the above, no hard feelings. I understand. |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
I concur with MindPro, and Tricky Ricky, especially.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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TrickyRicky Inner circle TrickyRicky 1653 Posts |
Hi Mindpro --love your post. You're so right on.
Kameron, may I recommend Dick Oslund book (The Road Scholar or DVD) you might get some great material and ideas you could work on. It's the Crème De La Crème of how to put a show together to entertain an audience of all ages. Showmanship and all. Dynamike, get this book, I know you will get lots out of it. You will, I promise. Tricky Ricky. |
Bill Thompson Elite user Mississippi 422 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 10, 2018, Dynamike wrote: Bwahahahahaha! I nearly lost it when I saw this... Anyway, yes Dick Oslund is right on and he has the experience to back it up.
"To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment.
Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." - Chuang Tse |
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Thank you for letting me know Tricky Ricky.
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