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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Should the federal minimum wage be $15 hourly? (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dynamike
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There were protestors in Michigan demanding the federal minimum wage should $15 hourly. A few were arrested. The fast food workers have been protesting about it for a few years.

The only thing I would like about it is it will help make my services available for more prospects to call me. I am sure I will have more customers.

One thing I do not like about it is prices are going to rise. I go to fast food restaurants a lot. I might get slower service too because of less workers.

What do you think?
Dannydoyle
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I think there is an old thread with everyone's opinion about minimum wage.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=32
Danny Doyle
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funsway
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Another problem is that many want a guaranteed salary rather than a wage. This implies compensation for wrk performed or valuer added for the owner.

In businesses every day I see worked not even worth $7.50 per hour.

So, I am in favor of increasing the minimum expected wage rage -- when the employee proves they can do the work.
Around here, kids out of high school with no job skills want $18 per hr because they "need that much" to pay for a car and apartment.
The rest plan on staying at home forever and never work (opinion).

To be fair, many business owners are not structured to have the employees "earn" $15 per. They don't hold themselves accountable and can't expect that of employees.
It is simple to structure a compensation system of base, bonuses and piece rate where the average employee can make $15 per hr or more.
Most people won't take the job because they have to show up on time and actually work. (I was a business consultant for more than 50 years)
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boxjumper
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I applaud Amazon for their plan to raise the min wage to $15. If you do a poor job, you'll get fired.
$15 is barely a living wage. It will help people get off public assistance and SNAP.
R.S.
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On Oct 4, 2018, boxjumper wrote:
I applaud Amazon for their plan to raise the min wage to $15. If you do a poor job, you'll get fired.
$15 is barely a living wage. It will help people get off public assistance and SNAP.


Speaking of Jeff Bezos, just saw on the news that his current net worth is estimated at $161.1 Billion dollars. I don't think he'll have a problem paying his workers $15 an hour. To put things in perspective, it takes about 11 days to count 1 million dollars (at the rate of 1 dollar every second). To count a billion dollars takes approximately 32 years! To count his fortune of 161 billion would take roughly five thousand years!

Also, assuming a simple interest rate of 1 percent, his money can just sit there in a basic savings account and earn him about 23 million per week. Of course, I would imagine his actual earnings are significantly higher than that.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On Oct 4, 2018, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 4, 2018, boxjumper wrote:
I applaud Amazon for their plan to raise the min wage to $15. If you do a poor job, you'll get fired.
$15 is barely a living wage. It will help people get off public assistance and SNAP.


Speaking of Jeff Bezos, just saw on the news that his current net worth is estimated at $161.1 Billion dollars. I don't think he'll have a problem paying his workers $15 an hour. To put things in perspective, it takes about 11 days to count 1 million dollars (at the rate of 1 dollar every second). To count a billion dollars takes approximately 32 years! To count his fortune of 161 billion would take roughly five thousand years!

Also, assuming a simple interest rate of 1 percent, his money can just sit there in a basic savings account and earn him about 23 million per week. Of course, I would imagine his actual earnings are significantly higher than that.

PS - actually, his net worth is now $161.1 billion plus $57 dollars. Because I just ordered $57 worth of stuff from Amazon. Smile

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Dannydoyle
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What does any of that have to do with the value of a worker?
Danny Doyle
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R.S.
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On Oct 4, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
What does any of that have to do with the value of a worker?


It wasn't meant to be an assessment of the value of a worker. It's just an interesting side note. Did you know that it would take about 5,000 years to count to 160 billion? We hear large numbers tossed around so much, I just thought it would be interesting to put them in perspective. After seeing the post about Amazon. Which I read right after seeing a news story about Jeff Bezos. That's all. You may now carry on with your regularly scheduled programming. Smile

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Dannydoyle
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I know all about numbers and what they mean. I also know you threw out "he'll have no trouble paying his workers $15 an hour" in the same diatribe. I thought it was connected.
Danny Doyle
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R.S.
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On Oct 4, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
I know all about numbers and what they mean. I also know you threw out "he'll have no trouble paying his workers $15 an hour" in the same diatribe. I thought it was connected.


"Diatribe"? How is that a "diatribe"??

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Dannydoyle
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I thought your use of exclamation points helped make it one.
Danny Doyle
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rockwall
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Yeah, I have no doubt Jeff will be able to afford it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.c......less/amp

"The reason is that in addition to raising wages, Amazon is also slashing some performance bonuses and its restricted stock unit program. In total, workers say losing the benefits may amount to thousands of dollars in lost pay annually. "
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 4, 2018, boxjumper wrote:
I applaud Amazon for their plan to raise the min wage to $15. If you do a poor job, you'll get fired.
$15 is barely a living wage. It will help people get off public assistance and SNAP.


Why is it the responsibility of any company ti provide a "living wage"? Where in any of our founding documents is that written?

And what exactly constitutes a "living wage" anyhow? What standard of living exactly? Oh and in what region of the country are you talking about?

The idea that a business MUST pay a "living wage" is not quite so clear as it seems at first.
Danny Doyle
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Senor Fabuloso
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What most people don't understand about your countries minimu wage laws are,

1. not all industries qualify
2. not all worker qualify
3. even those that work for minimum wage may be subsidized by government programs making the tax payer, responsible for business responsibilities
4. tax breaks given to businesses meant for hiring workers at any wage will often be consumed by stock buy backs and increased profits

None of this is bad in a capitalistic society but to be honest, the workers are least important in the minds of government or business, in that same society.
Learn to read and read to learn.

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Dannydoyle
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Your list is pretty good buy there is even more people do not understand dot minimum wage laws. I think a large reason, and not trying to be political, but when you base the salary on only the "need" of the worker with no thought of their value to the company you have a skewed view of the equation.
Danny Doyle
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R.S.
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On Oct 7, 2018, rockwall wrote:
Yeah, I have no doubt Jeff will be able to afford it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.c......less/amp

"The reason is that in addition to raising wages, Amazon is also slashing some performance bonuses and its restricted stock unit program. In total, workers say losing the benefits may amount to thousands of dollars in lost pay annually. "


From the same article:

Quote:
Amazon disputes that any employees will make less as a result of the RSU program and incentive bonuses being cut. “The significant increase in hourly cash wages more than compensates for the phase out of incentive pay and RSUs,” a spokesperson for the company said in a statement. “We can confirm that all hourly Operations and Customer Service employees will see an increase in their total compensation as a result of this announcement. In addition, because it’s no longer incentive-based, the compensation will be more immediate and predictable.”

The employee who spoke with WIRED maintains they will lose at least $1,400 per year as a result of the benefits being cut, despite factoring in a $1 raise in hourly pay. When WIRED provided Amazon with the employee’s calculations, the company did not dispute their accuracy.

In one sense, Amazon has good reason to cut the benefits it previously offered and instead provide employees with more cash. One of the soon-to-expire bonuses, for example, was given based on whether an employee’s entire warehouse met its productivity goals—a factor no single worker can control. RSUs also aren’t vested for two years; many warehouse employees don’t work at the company long enough to claim them, causing millions to be forfeited each year.


Moreover, the anonymous employee who the article references was apparently already making $14 per hour. So yeah, bonuses for him/her can exceed that $1 dollar per hour raise. But what about all the employees making just $13, $12, $11, $10 per hour? For them it's possible that the hourly raise could be more than the bonuses.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
magicalaurie
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On Oct 7, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:

Why is it the responsibility of any company ti provide a "living wage"? Where in any of our founding documents is that written?

And what exactly constitutes a "living wage" anyhow? What standard of living exactly? Oh and in what region of the country are you talking about?

The idea that a business MUST pay a "living wage" is not quite so clear as it seems at first.


Well, I suppose it might make sense if they had any interest in retaining living employees. Smile
landmark
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when you base the salary on only the "need" of the worker with no thought of their value to the company...


Not for Danny particularly, but things to think about in this discussion:

How do you think that a worker's value should be quantified? When someone says "not worth $X dollars an hour," what is that based on? Why and what is the baseline used for comparison, whatever it is?

And are you saying that a worker's wage is only based on some merit index and is independent of the labor market?

Labor power under our system is a commodity just like any other--it's price is in fact determined by supply, demand, and the power or powerlessness of labor to negotiate their price. When the labor supply shrinks or expands, and wages go up or down in response to that, nothing inherently about the value of the work itself has changed, yet compensation changes.
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 7, 2018, magicalaurie wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 7, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:

Why is it the responsibility of any company ti provide a "living wage"? Where in any of our founding documents is that written?

And what exactly constitutes a "living wage" anyhow? What standard of living exactly? Oh and in what region of the country are you talking about?

The idea that a business MUST pay a "living wage" is not quite so clear as it seems at first.


Well, I suppose it might make sense if they had any interest in retaining living employees. Smile


So instead of sarcasm you could try to answer.
Danny Doyle
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 7, 2018, landmark wrote:
Quote:
when you base the salary on only the "need" of the worker with no thought of their value to the company...


Not for Danny particularly, but things to think about in this discussion:

How do you think that a worker's value should be quantified? When someone says "not worth $X dollars an hour," what is that based on? Why and what is the baseline used for comparison, whatever it is?

And are you saying that a worker's wage is only based on some merit index and is independent of the labor market?

Labor power under our system is a commodity just like any other--it's price is in fact determined by supply, demand, and the power or powerlessness of labor to negotiate their price. When the labor supply shrinks or expands, and wages go up or down in response to that, nothing inherently about the value of the work itself has changed, yet compensation changes.


Not even close to the whole story.

There are hard costs to production. If you randonly assign a cost to labor based on the ability to support a family in New York city then it is a huge problem. Most jobs are based on lots of factors. One of which is ability. If you lack any marketable skills why is that the problem of a company?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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