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stilson New user 78 Posts |
I have a few routines where the instructions say that so and so will go unseen due to the Kaps Subtlety. Can someone please explain to me what this means?
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Smudge New user 82 Posts |
If you purchase the book Expert Coin Magic
by Richard Kaufman, Published by Kaufman & Greenberg. You'll learn this and hundreds of other coin effects. Good Luck. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Fred's hands were huge and he could hide large coins (Silver dollar size) with this grip. It is similar to the Ramsay subtlety.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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KirkG Inner circle 1391 Posts |
Actually is is more similar to the Malini subtlety.
Kirk |
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MagicAndBlackjack Elite user 442 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-07-02 12:11, KirkG wrote: I think it's more similar to the Ramsay subtlety, because with Malini the coin is in Classic Palm. Kaps and Ramsay both have the coin basically in FP. |
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stephen secret New user mpls. 67 Posts |
Find your own subtlety; I'm still looking for mine.
sincerely, secret
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Stephen Barney Regular user UK 130 Posts |
Kaps and Ramsey Subtlety are the same as they both use FP and the Malini uses CP
Guess this is the wrong forum to ask this question as it involves diverging method you need over 50 posts and ask it in the closed forums |
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Randy Sager Elite user 409 Posts |
The Kaps subtlety does not use the f.p. it uses the c.p. It did orignate with Malini who showed it to Vernon. Vernon then taught it to Kaps.
I believe it was in Kaufman's Coin Magic Richard explained he had given Kaps credit for the above in the Roth Expert Coin Magic book. Richard then went on to explain the history of the item and since then it is often called the Malini,Vernon, Kaps subtlety. |
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thimblerig Loyal user Bellevue, WA 273 Posts |
Randy is right. The Malini-Kaps subtlety uses CP while Ramsay uses FP. It is good that people want to help, but it would be better if they verified the correctness of their info before posting.
To answer the original question, both of these subtleties allow partial open display of the hand while actually concealing a coin in the respective hidden locations. The casualness of display with attention to angles is highly deceptive. For more info, see the standard texts. Regards, tr |
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MagicAndBlackjack Elite user 442 Posts |
I don't recal which DVD or book it was, but in one of my DVDs or books the magician explained Kaps and Ramsay as the same subtlety.
My appologies. TJ |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Please remember that these subtle displays do not replace a convincing show of an empty hand.
Also that how you hold and move your hand is a significant factor in how your audience interprets your hand as empty or not.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Randy Sager Elite user 409 Posts |
MagicAnd BlackJack that is not correct they are not the same. both accomplish the same idea but are not the same at all.
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
I am a big fan of the Ramsey Subtlety, especially in learning Spellbound, and similar effects.
I'm not familiar with the Kaps Subtlety...and the use of CP in a subtlety rings familiar with me...I think it's used in a Utility Switch (One-Handed?) of some sort. I need a cross index for my library...this gets to be a headache looking stuff up...oh well. I might be thinking of Rubinstein's Kaps tools on his Sleights Encyclopedia... And (as always), Jonathan Townsend nails it spot-on...it's how you hold, and move the hand. It's also in the transfer of weight (shifting from one foot to the other at the right time), eye contact, and a few other factors...a symphony of coordinated efforts, executed fluidly, with grace and balance. Coin magic is not as effortless as it looks... Doug |
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deerbourne Regular user Centennial, CO 174 Posts |
Roth covers at least one of these on his tapes (Vol 1 or 2). I believe it was the ramsey subtlety.
Deerbourne |
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leefoley3 Elite user Texas 402 Posts |
Let's not forget the casual misdirection involved. It's not just a subtlety it's a tool. Natural is the name of the game...or as close as we can get! Good luck Lee.
In December of '06 I was diagnosed with a very rare cancer, Dermatofibrosarcoma Protuberans. One in a million people worldwide are diagnosed with this type of cancer annually. Sarcomas account for 1% of all cancers. Knowledge is power!
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The way I see BOTH of those SUBTLE displays abused, we are very close to lay audience awareness... The way many folks do 'Three Fly' almost dares the audience to discover where the coins are. The poor handling of Geoff's French Pop is almost a give away for the concealment. Really folks, a subtlety is NOT a proving move. You would do well to lean cuffing and some aquitments like the Sylvester Pitch.
Already, there are laymen who know about Downs Palm. My boss at work showed me a few of Downs moves... and told me a worker there years ago used to do that stuff. Do we really want to have this happening with FingerPalm and ClassicPalm? I for one, hope this problem does not spread. Please don't kill these nice concealments for all of us by using them to 'prove' your hands are empty. There is nothing clever about killing a good subtly by mismanaging both the display and the moment it is used.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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KirkG Inner circle 1391 Posts |
Glad to see someone came forward and corrected the error. I ams sorry I am not hear as often as I used to. Re-read Jonathans posts! There is gold there.
Kirk |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Roth calls the CP method the Kaps subtlety and uses it at the start of his Spellbound routine as he tosses a half dollar from hand to hand, hiding the english penny in CP. It's a perfect example. You're not proving anything. You're just tossing around a coin. There is nothing for the spectator to even consider at that moment. A perfect use.
"A half a dollar...A silver coin..." You know the drill! Frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Ken Brooke's philosphy... Don't be greedy with a principle.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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funboy247 New user 64 Posts |
I know the post is very old but I had the same problem like stilson. Kaps subtlety is slight different to Ramsey subtlety. You will find some information on Eric Jones Metal 1 DVD!!!
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