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Magicmaven
Inner circle
1235 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 12:20am
Hello all.
I bet this has been discussed a lot, so please give me links if you know of any. Thanks.
I am looking for a solid 3 fly type routine. I am fourteen, and a guy at Hollywood Magic said that in terms of David Roth's videos, and where I was on the magic skill level, I was Intermediate. Which 3 fly routine do you like the most and/or which one do you think would be best for me? thanks a lot! (OH! spending over $100 is not going to happen,  )
Yours in magic
Rmax Goodwin
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Werner G. Seitz
Inner circle
3132 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 1:52am
Oh..that's easy...
Have a look at:
http://www.denisbehr.de/coinmagic.html
look under 'visual coins across' and just do it the way it's done there..no expensive coins used, I'm told, and this is true....
Just will take you 5 years of practice, but if you're a 'talent', you'll manage in a week..
I didn't even dare to 'try'....but I'm no 'talent'.. 
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto...  )
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YVRDave
Regular user
Vancouver, BC
104 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 2:24am
Daryl has a good one for a lot cheaper - http://www.foolerdoolers.com
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Magius
Regular user
136 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 8:12am
I agree, Denis Behr's variation is very well choreographed. However I find it slightly angly, and I wouldn't perform it for a real person just yet, much less more than one. My hands are still too small for silver dollars, or maybe I need to practice more, I can't move the coin to edge grip silently using dollar coins, so I use half dollars, which is supposedly pointless  doing 3 Fly with anything smaller than Silver Dollars that is. (forgot who said it, excuse me)
If you're really only intermediate level into Roth Tapes, I recommend not doing it yet. By all means practice, but 3 Fly require more skill to do well in real life situation than other routines, or at least that is my experience.
Neophyte.
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bprattmagic
New user
Boston
74 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 10:20am
Ultimate 3 Fly by Bob Kohler
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Chris "linkster" Watson
Special user
England
564 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 12:21pm
BPrattmagic,
The post mentioned a restriction on $ so the Kohler version may be a bit beyond that....unless you know otherwise in which case I'd love to hear your source
I'd have a look at the origional publication of Chris Kenner Out of Control and combine it with some of the Gary Kurtz handling from Trio which looks to be what Dennis Behr has done. The other + side is that you will get some other fantastic routines to play with in both books, including Hellbound Spellbound which is one of my favourites.
Palms of Steel 1 may also be worth having a look at and if you want some challenging stuff try Kainoa Harbottles "coins on edge" manuscript.
www.sambucaboys.co.uk
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richgerb86
Loyal user
Reading, Pa.
202 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 12:33pm
Check out Paul Wilson's routine, I think it is Crowded Coins & is on one of his DVD's & also available through his website as a file download if I am not mistaken. You may also want to check out the book DesTroyers,by Troy Hooser. It has a lot of good information in it.
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Magicmaven
Inner circle
1235 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 1:39pm
Ok, thanks guys. It seems like this is a little more difficult than I had thought. I think I might buy one of the more cheaper versions first, and see what I am getting into. If I think I CAN do some of these tricks (and possibly perform it in a year or two), maybe then I will look into some really fantastic routine(s). Anyways, thanks for all the imput, I will tell you what happens.
Rmax
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Stuart Hooper
Special user
Mithrandir
760 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 4:17pm
For the ten billionth time, it depends on what you want to do with it.
Then again, generally speaking, the original and orginal theory and idea for all sorts of venues seems to be the best...
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Jaybs
Elite user
465 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 7:11pm
Hi magicmaven,
This has been discussed many times before as you already have guessed. I'm sure if you do a search in the forum under "best three fly" you will find the answer to your question. Some of the cheap 3 Flys that are pretty good are:
-Troy Hooser's from his Destroyers book/Total Destruction DVD
-Daryl's 3 Fly
-Lee Asher's Three Stylin
-Paul Wilson's 3 Fly from Knock Em Dead
-Chris Kenner's 3 Fly from Totally Out of Control
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2004 8:00pm
Why don't you PM Jonathan Townsend and ask his opinion? He has been doing 3 Fly longer than anyone else. ANYONE else.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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Magicmaven
Inner circle
1235 Posts
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Posted: Nov 15, 2004 12:43am
I did that, He said that he thought that his stuff my be a little "out of league." He is probably right. He said that I should look at Reed's stuff, and Curtis's stuff. I can't wait to really start diving into some of these routines. Again thanks guys.
Rmax Goodwin
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KirkG
Inner circle
1355 Posts
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Posted: Nov 15, 2004 11:30pm
Paul Wilson has been doing his in the Close up room at the Magic Castle all week. That would be a perfect opportunity to see it done by one of the authors.
I do a variation of the Kenner routine, that I feel works best under most conditions.
Kirk G.
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k
Loyal user
Marseille
283 Posts
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Posted: Nov 16, 2004 6:35am
Quote:
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On 2004-11-14 01:52, Werner G. Seitz wrote:
Oh..that's easy...
Have a look at:
http://www.denisbehr.de/coinmagic.html
look under 'visual coins across' and just do it the way it's done there..no expensive coins used, I'm told, and this is true....
Just will take you 5 years of practice, but if you're a 'talent', you'll manage in a week..
I didn't even dare to 'try'....but I'm no 'talent'..
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WOW! what can I say, it just goes very fast, nice work on edges...!!!
Are you sure it's non gimmicked or at least a ] no????
Or is it a variation of Kainoa...
My 2 cents, 3F is just a 2K fashion. Check on I3F
Still, can't wait for Jon's manuscript!!!
I'm just a blind Con that lost his I...
remember, Magic's everywhere... ("Your are the magic !" - Albert Goshman)
"Voici mon secret. Il est très simple. On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux" St-Exupéry
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Werner G. Seitz
Inner circle
3132 Posts
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Posted: Nov 16, 2004 6:53am
K
I too thought he did use a gimmick and asked him..he didn't..pure sleight of hand..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... )
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25257 Posts
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Posted: Nov 16, 2004 7:41am
As posted above, Denis is using sleight of hand... and very well.
Sorry if I gave anyone the impression that my work might be "out of their league" <- their words not mine. The first coin jump from my routine has been borrowed and published by many. If you can make it work, you will on the path. Kainoa Harbottle published an Edge Grip coin switch of mine, that will get you to the second coin jump. Curtis Kam showed the one-handed coin vanish on his POS1 video. That gets you about two thirds of the way through a routine. The rest will wait till the book is ready.
I'm just glad you like the trick and hope you find a version that you and your audiences find magical.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pete Biro
V.I.P.
17761 Posts
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Posted: Nov 16, 2004 3:32pm
Behr is great, but I wish the demo showed his face. Like to see what he looks like.
Definitely an excellent coin handler.
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
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Frank Starsini
Eternal Order
Northern California
12226 Posts
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Posted: Nov 16, 2004 4:14pm
Why ruin a perfectly good demo?
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate,
Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder.
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fonda57
Inner circle
chicago
1193 Posts
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Posted: Nov 16, 2004 4:17pm
Gary Kurtz has a great Three Fly rendition in his Misty Like a Dream routine.
mike
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Jaybs
Elite user
465 Posts
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Posted: Nov 16, 2004 9:29pm
Pete,
I think if you go to his site, he has a picture of himself on the front page, just in case you're still curious as to what he looks like:)
http://www.denisbehr.de/
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Werner G. Seitz
Inner circle
3132 Posts
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Posted: Nov 17, 2004 1:41am
Quote:
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On 2004-11-16 21:29, Jaybs wrote:
Pete,
I think if you go to his site, he has a picture of himself on the front page, just in case you're still curious as to what he looks like:)
http://www.denisbehr.de/
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That guy is eating cards as others eat donuts or bagels ?
One of the best coin and cardhandlers I've seen via the net!
His 3 Fly looks outstandingly good!
But, there is nothing like seeing it on a real vid/DVD or life, because those netclips have disadvantages to 'jump' small bits over far too often
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... )
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k
Loyal user
Marseille
283 Posts
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Posted: Nov 17, 2004 9:07am
Jeezus! AND he's not ugly that fellow...!
Good with cards, great with coins... Is there anything he's not good at?
I guess I'll practice few more years... after all, I, as a magician, will be doomed to always be a beginner (but ain't that true for all of us??)
Jon, I like your way of giving us hints but still make us want for more. I'm drooling allready!
I'm just a blind Con that lost his I...
remember, Magic's everywhere... ("Your are the magic !" - Albert Goshman)
"Voici mon secret. Il est très simple. On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux" St-Exupéry
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Hart Keene
Inner circle
Eugene, OR
1484 Posts
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Posted: Nov 17, 2004 3:07pm
You all should check out Lee Asher's "Three Stylin". It is a wonderful version of 3-fly that really does improve the original effect and has a great "hook". I had already seen multiple versions of 3-fly but when Lee showed me his I was like, "what the #%*$"! You have to see him perform it to understand how it plays with your mind. I believe you can get it at leeasher.com, great trick...
-Hart
Check out my website:
Magician Portland Oregon
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bsears
Inner circle
1006 Posts
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Posted: Nov 19, 2004 10:10am
I'm still down with the Kenner version.
5 years of practice, whoever said it, is right on the nose.
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KirkG
Inner circle
1355 Posts
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Posted: Nov 19, 2004 10:53am
I had an interesting discussion with another magician at the Magic Castle last night. He said he felt 3 fly lacked the defined magic moments of a regular coins across, so he preferred them. His feeling was the magic moments in 3 fly occur while the spectator is distracted into looking at the wrong hand. In other words, you have to beat them.
I don't fully agree with his thinking, but I see where he is coming from. Any thoughts?
Kirk G
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25257 Posts
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Posted: Nov 19, 2004 11:07am
Not sure how to comment about folks facing some challenges as regards the attention/timing issues with my style of coin magic. Those who have my write-ups seem to be doing okay. Is this a comment by someone who has my manuscript?
I recently saw Sol Stone do a one coin jump in the context of one of his older routines. He looks at the coin, says "jump" and it does. Working on his own and from published sources, Denis Behr has got the coins across working.
Depending on the circumstances, I do use David Roth's version of the Coins Across routine from his lecture. I also use his chink-a-chink. As far as I can tell, these register as different effects to a lay audience. One kind of magic happens upon command and inside closed fists. Another happens as you wave your hands over the coins. My coins across happens in about in about the same way as dogs jump through a hoop in those those trained dog acts. Or perhaps closer to how thing happen in a flea circus.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Stuart Hooper
Special user
Mithrandir
760 Posts
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Posted: Nov 19, 2004 11:10am
EDIT: Jonathan got in before me. If anyone knows...it'd be him.
I think the original certainly has the potential to be a fairly confrontational construct of the visual coins magic tools invented twenty years ago.
However, it comes down to the performer. Most magic can be about doing something "to" someone, a "challenge", or a "puzzle"...or, it can be a wonderful journey, a joint expedition, something done "for" and audience, and something which does not beg the question, "how did you do that"...but "why", a situation where the answer to that "why" is going to stick with someone for a long time.
These stylistic and aesthetic issues depend completely on the attitude and approach of the performer...
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KirkG
Inner circle
1355 Posts
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Posted: Nov 20, 2004 12:09am
Ooohh good thoughts!
Jonathan,
I don't' think he has seen your manuscript, but I will ask him.
Stuart,
Nicely put. I completely agree with your thinking. I think the other magician wasn't so much thinking about it from a presentational angle, but a visual. In other words, it is hard to look at two places at the same time, so they(the spectators) always feel like they "just missed it." And that may be a good thing(missing it) since if they burn the right hand, they may see the mechanics.
Kirk
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VReality
New user
67 Posts
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Posted: Nov 23, 2004 1:31am
I'd also like to see Dennis in his videos is because then it might not look like a 12 year old doing things I will NEVER be able to do. ;^)
- VR
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Mike Wild
Inner circle
NY, PA, TX, MA, FL, NC
1292 Posts
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Posted: Nov 23, 2004 6:57am
I've never seen "Coins Across", visual or otherwise as a routine that was in danger of provoking or challenging the audience to a duel of wits. I see Hopping Halves and several others as having this potential, but the "Across" premise is, or should (I think) be safe from this pitfall. I suppose however that a performer could make it into a challenge if they really wanted to / didn't know any other way to perform it.
Hmmmm. Interesting thoughts here...
Best,
Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>
"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
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