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msc455magic
Inner circle
Taipei, Taiwan
1505 Posts
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Posted: Dec 24, 2004 8:39am
Which magician do you think has the best patter of all? I think I will go with Bill Malone
Magic of Japan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tks9xf13Pqs
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The Donster
Inner circle
4813 Posts
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Posted: Dec 24, 2004 10:00am
The best patter is your own. plus it has to fit your style.
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rannie
Inner circle
4338 Posts
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Posted: Dec 24, 2004 1:43pm
I love Aldo Colombini's style. The is as sharp and ready as can be. Very lovable ! Michael Ammar is fantastic too. Bill Malone is always entertaining. Tommy Wonder makes great connection.
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo-
aka The Boss
aka The Manila Enforcer
www.rannieraymundo.com
www.tapm.proboards80.net
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ABlair36
Loyal user
Toronto
233 Posts
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Posted: Dec 30, 2004 12:08am
Quote:
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On 2004-12-24 13:43, rannie wrote:
Michael Ammar is fantastic too. Bill Malone is always entertaining. Tommy Wonder makes great connection.
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Ammar? Really?
I've never heard anyone say that they like Ammar's patter. Unsually the opposite. I don't like his patter either. He often talks about quantim physics/particles and experiments. Things that are just not very relatable to his audience.
I definitely agree with Tommy Wonder and Bill Malone though.
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kOnO
Elite user
443 Posts
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Posted: Dec 30, 2004 8:35am
Gazzo, he's got the lines that crack me UP!
kOnO
It is a lot easier to get older than it is to get wiser.
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stephenbanning
Regular user
United States
178 Posts
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Posted: Dec 31, 2004 1:33am
This is a good question. We really need to distinguish what we mean by best patter. Does best patter refer to DELIVERY or ORIGINALITY?
Also, does best patter mean best patter as percieved by all audiences, magicians, me personally, or the particular performer's target. For instance, I like Michael Ammar's patter in that much of it is original, and what is not, he identifies. I find it logical and appropriate for many of the audiences I use. It isn't appropriate for others, but it's not meant to be. Part of Ammar's appeal to some is his folksy approach that makes it appear his patter is off the cuff. People who don't like the in your face magician are more likely to like Ammar.
On the other hand you have someone like the Amazing Jonathan who has a different approach and is somewhat original (the style is very original, and much of the patter is wildly different in approach). He is very different but also interesting.
Does David Copperfield have good patter? Yes, if you are talking about delivery. Yes, if you are talking about style. Yes, if you are talking about compilation. No, if you are talking about originality. This doesn't mean DC isn't ethical. I've never heard of anyone ever say DC used material he didn't pay for.
Then the question gets even more complicated. What about the Copperfield clones who do the effects word for word as Copperfield does? Can we put them in the mix?
If we talk about someone like Colombini, you have to look at delivery. He is very funny and original in his style and presentation. He is also original in his use of jokes not commonly used by magicians today. However, many of his jokes date back to the 1920's. I used to read old joke books and recognized the jokes, but Columbini's delivery still made me laugh. His book of jokes also contains many jokes previously published.
For coming up with wild new ideas, many children's magicians are very good. I can't use far out ideas, but David Ginn has very creative patter he has developed himself as has Sammy Smith and Duane Laflin.
Doc Eason is extremely funny and glib and just nice to listen to, but doesn't write his own material
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Dark Thought 13
Regular user
Washington D.C.
122 Posts
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Posted: Jan 23, 2005 7:59am
I have always been a fan of Gary Kurtz, nice dialogue, a little tongue and cheek..
David Regal also has nice scripted lines and energy.
"I love the one with the plastic thumb!"
Someone who has seen a s*** magician
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Brent McLeod
Inner circle
New Zealand
1552 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2005 9:31pm
Tommy Wonder very clever & natural& Michael Finney who has Great Script for every effect as well as the Linking of the whole act together-Very Funny& Total professional!!
http://www.bandsforhire.co.nz/brent_mcleod.htm
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foreva.infiniti
New user
6 Posts a + a 6 Posts =
76 Posts
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Posted: Jun 8, 2010 5:13pm
That's an impossible question. Patter is derived from character which is derived from you. Its hard to compare those that are alike in very little ways. You see people have little similarities but infinite differences.
Perhaps if you rephrased the qustion by asking:
Which magician has the best patter that fits his character?
That of course would be me, as arrogant as that sounds. I studied the history of colors and numbers extensively and the knowledge obtained was massive so massive that I can incorporate a number and color in all aspects of my patter. All of my one liners, back ups, etc are referencing numbers and colors. Just about every thing I say is in reference to a number or a color. And since numbers and colors are usually always present knowing a lot about them helps when it comes to improving patter.
Colors are Foreva. Numbers are Infinite. For every number there's a color. HEY! Eternity! Lets smoke a beer and drink some loud. But wait! I heard you was a six a plus a 6 ahhhh.
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panlives
Inner circle
2088 Posts
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Posted: Jun 15, 2010 6:40pm
Quote:
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On 2010-06-08 17:13, foreva.infiniti wrote:
That's an impossible question. Patter is derived from character which is derived from you. Its hard to compare those that are alike in very little ways. You see people have little similarities but infinite differences.
Perhaps if you rephrased the qustion by asking:
Which magician has the best patter that fits his character?
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Brilliant reply!
Ricky Jay reciting Francois Villon’s poem, "De bonne doctrine a ceux de mauvaise vie" is something that few if any magicians could replicate with Mr. Jay’s joy of the low-life from which the poem sprang into existence.
Mr. Jay used a Henley translation of the poem – an interesting choice that reveals just how important a part personality and character play when discussing “patter.” Most translations were attempts at a somewhat literal interpretation of Villon’s 15-century French, which was made even more difficult due to his use of the criminal cant of his time.
Along came the English poet, author and critic, William Ernest Henley (August 23, 1849 – July 11, 1903), he of the poem, “Invictus.” Henley also collaborated with John S. Farmer in compiling “A Dictionary of Slang and its Analogues.” Farmer was an interesting person. His love of language resulted in books that, when listed, read like a linguaphile's theme park: Musa pedestris: Three centuries of canting songs and slang rhyme; Vocabula amatoria: a French-English glossary of words, phrases, and…; A Dictionary of Slang Volume 1 A-K; A Dictionary of Slang Vol 2 L-Z; The regimental records of the British Army. A historical résumé…; Recently Recovered "Lost" Tudor plays, with some others; Merry songs and ballads prior to the year; Gammer Gurton's Needle; Dictionary of Slang and Colloquial English; etc, etc,…
A rare book that chronicles the prodigious scholarship behind “A Dictionary of Slang and its Analogues” by Henley and Farmer is called, “The Correspondence of John Stephen Farmer and W. E. Henley on Their Slang Dictionary 1890-1904,” by John S. Farmer, Damian Atkinson and William Ernest Henley.
For any lover of the lore of the underworld and the criminal cant of that era (much of which is still in currency to this day, even in North America), this book is a treasure waiting to be re-discovered.
Clearly, Henley had a vast ocean of words to harvest as he approached the difficult task of re-thinking Villon’s poem. Henley’s genius was to use the criminal cant of 19th century London, thereby getting much closer, counter-intuitively, to the soul and spirit of Villon.
Hearing the master card handler Ricky Jay speak the poem aloud in his show, “Ricky Jay and his 52 Assistants” is a delight. Mr. Jay is enamored with the magic of the words and his deep and abiding passion is infectious.
I will start with Villon’s poem in its original French, followed by the Henley translation (best read aloud for maximum enjoyment), followed by a key that will help you to understand the criminal canting language Henley used – and that Mr. Jay alone transformed into performance art:
"De bonne doctrine a ceux de mauvaise vie."
CAR ou soies porteur de bulles,
Pipeur ou hasardeur de dez,
Tailleur de faulx coings,
tu te brusles,
Comme ceulx qui sont eschaudez,
Traistres parjurs, de foy vuydez;
Soies larron, ravis ou pilles:
Où en va l'acquest, que cuidez?
Tout aux tavernes et aux filles.
Ryme, raille, cymballe, luttes,
Comme fol, fainctif, eshontez;
Farce, broulle, joue des fleustes;
Fais, es villes et es citez,
Farces, jeux et moralitez;
Gaigne au berlanc, au glic, aux quilles.
Aussi bien va--or escoutez--
Tout aux tavernes et aux filles.
De telz ordures te reculles;
Laboure, fauche champs et prez;
Sers et pense chevaulx et mulles;
S'aucunement tu n'es lettrez;
Assez auras, se prens en grez.
Mais se chanvre broyes ou tilles,
Ne tens ton labour qu'as ouvrez
Tout aux tavernes et aux filles.
Ballade de Bonne Doctrine (1461)
VILLON'S STRAIGHT TIP TO ALL CROSS COVES
(Translation by William Ernest Henley. Key is below the poem)
I
1. Suppose you screeve, or go cheap-jack?
2. Or fake the broads? or fig a nag?
3. Or thimble-rig? or knap a yack?
4. Or pitch a snide? or smash a rag?
5. Suppose you duff? or nose and lag?
6. Or get the straight, and land your pot?
7. How do you melt the multy swag?
8. Booze and the blowens cop the lot.
II
1. Fiddle, or fence, or mace, or mack;
2. Or moskeneer, or flash the drag;
3. Dead-lurk a crib, or do a crack;
4. Pad with a slang, or chuck a fag;
5. Bonnet, or tout, or mump and gag;
6. Rattle the tats, or mark the spot;
7. You cannot bank a single stag:
8. Booze and the blowens cop the lot.
III
1. Suppose you try a different tack,
2. And on the square you flash your flag?
3. At penny-a-lining make your whack,
4. Or with the mummers mug and gag?
5. For nix, for nix the dibbs you bag
6. At any graft, no matter what!
7.Your merry goblins soon stravag:
8.Booze and the blowens cop the lot.
The Moral:
1.It's up-the-spout and Charley-Wag
2.With wipes and tickers and what not!
3.Until the squeezer nips your scrag,
4.Booze and the blowens cop the lot.
The Key:
Stanza I
Line 1. Screeve: forge.
Line 2. Fake the broads: cheat at cards. Fig a nag: make an old horse seem lively by stuffing a fig saturated with ginger up its backside.
Line 3. Thimble rig: old shell game, modern three-card monte.Knap a yack: steal a watch.
Line 4. Pitch a snide: pass counterfeit coin. Smash a rag: pass counterfeit bills.
Line 5. Duff: fence goods. Nose and lag: inform, "rat," collect evidence for the police.
Line 7. Melt: Spend. Multy: bloody. Swag: Goods
Line 8. Booze and the blowens cop the lot: drink and the women (debauchery, i.e. syphilis) will kill you off.
Stanza II
Line 1. Fiddle: swindle. Fence: deal in stolen goods. Mace: steal, go back on one's word. Mack: pimp.
Line 2. Moskeneer: to pawn for more than the pledge is worth. Flash the drag: wear women's clothes for an improper purpose.
Line 3. Dead-lurk a crib: house-break during the time when folks were in church. Do a crack: burglary with violence.
Line 4. Pad with a slang: join a travelling troupe. Chuck a fag: strike a blow under the chin
Line 5. Bonnet: Act as the “inside man.” Tout: solicit business or employment in an importune manner. Mump and gag: beg and talk with the intent to double-cross.
Line 6. Rattle the tats: roll the dice. Mark the spot: identify the victim of a con.
Line 7. Bank: save. Stag: piece of money.
Stanza III
Line 1. Tack: approach.
Line 2. On the square: legitimately. Flash your flag = set up a trade; or perform on the streets.
Line 3. Penny-a-lining: hack writing. Make your whack: Earn your money.
Line 4. Mummers: Christians. Mug and gag: make faces, gesticulate, preach.
Line 5. For nix: For nothing. Dibbs: Paltry amounts of money. Bag: collect.
Line 6. Graft: job, activity, trade.
Line 7. Goblins: money. Stravag: go astray, leave your pockets.
The Moral:
Line 1. Up the spout: Pawn. Charley Wag: pickpocket.
Line 2. Wipes: handkerchiefs. Tickers: watches.
Line 3. Squeezer: hangman's noose. Scrag: neck.
Again - this translation was around for a long time.
ONLY RICKY JAY’S RECITATION TRANSFORMED IT INTO A PIECE OF MAGICAL PERFORMANCE ART!
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
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foreva.infiniti
New user
6 Posts a + a 6 Posts =
76 Posts
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Posted: Jun 15, 2010 8:23pm
Quote:
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On 2010-06-15 18:40, panlives wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-06-08 17:13, foreva.infiniti wrote:
That's an impossible question. Patter is derived from character which is derived from you. Its hard to compare those that are alike in very little ways. You see people have little similarities but infinite differences.
Perhaps if you rephrased the qustion by asking:
Which magician has the best patter that fits his character?
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Brilliant reply!
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...Eternity!
Colors are Foreva. Numbers are Infinite. For every number there's a color. HEY! Eternity! Lets smoke a beer and drink some loud. But wait! I heard you was a six a plus a 6 ahhhh.
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Brainbu$ter
Regular user
Indianapolis, IN
118 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2012 11:47am
David Blaine, haha. "Watch."
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motown
Inner circle
Atlanta by way of Detroit
4765 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 9:21pm
Ricky Jay.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain
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MaxfieldsMagic
Inner circle
Instead of practicing, I made
1964 Posts
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Posted: May 17, 2012 10:42am
Gregory Wilson, Jon Allen, Jon Armstrong, and James Brown all stand out, IMO, in the patter department. Wilson and Armstrong because of their fresh wit, and Allen and Brown because they just seem to have a terrific way of interacting with spectators. They don't do long stories, but their manner, choice of words, delivery, etc., all greatly enhance their performances.
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
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Brainbu$ter
Regular user
Indianapolis, IN
118 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2012 9:33am
Yes, ricky jay is a good one.
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John C
Inner circle
The AMAZING and COMMERCIAL Chair Test
6162 Posts
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Posted: Jun 7, 2012 1:15pm
TELLER
The ULTIMATE Routine Series:
www.professionalmagicroutines.com
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Magicmike1949
Special user
605 Posts
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 12:51am
David Regal, Eugene Burger, Tommy Wonder, Master Payne.
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MagicGirl1536
New user
15 Posts
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Posted: Jun 13, 2012 5:35am
For me it would have to be Bill Malone and Penn & Teller because of their ability to "break out of character which Malone explains breifly in his On The Loose Series, wich you should get.
those who don't believe in magic won't find it- Roald Dahl
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Jim Sparx
Inner circle
Far Out, Texas
1125 Posts
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Posted: Jun 16, 2012 6:58pm
Watch some Tommy Cooper videos on youtube. Then watch Ade Duval here:
http://charvetmagic.com/
Both performers are being themselves rather than a scripted personality. The hardest thing to be in your life is yourself, because you think you have to live up to someone else's expectations. After you watch the above videos, go to this website and learn about Lee Strasberg's Method Acting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_acting
If all that becomes too complicated for you, just be yourself. Most people respond to someone who is authentic, rather than an actor trying to be someone they are not.
In in case, be happy and don't worry.
Spartacus died for your sloth
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link8822
New user
Central Jersey, NJ
58 Posts
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 3:26pm
I have not seen a lot of live magic shows, but Penn & Teller's show left me inspired and really got me thinking. It was a delightful experience, especially the closing effect which was mostly nothing but patter.
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Ola
Loyal user
Australia / Sweden
245 Posts
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Posted: Aug 26, 2012 10:48am
Best patter? My girlfriend! She has amazing hands.... 
You laugh because I'm different. I laugh because you are all the same...
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ApprenticeWizard
New user
Charlottesville, VA
80 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2012 9:46pm
I think Eugene Burger has some of the best scripted presentations I know of. Also Rene Lavand has some great lines and a masterful delivery. Malone is fast and humorous, but Burger and Lavand are the ones I tend to emulate now.
Magically yours,
Tom Olshefski
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