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Topic: Sleights & Concelments - practice for both hands?
Message: Posted by: makscopes (Jan 26, 2005 02:00PM)
I am just getting back into magic after a long hiatus and am wondering - do most of us practice concelments (like classic, thumb and finger palms) for BOTH hands or just for ONE hand? I can still perform most sleights and palms perfectly in my right hand, but my left hand has a tough time doing so (in other words, performing a mirror image of the sleight).

I think that this would have practical value, but wonder how many people actually do this.

Milton
Message: Posted by: iarwain (Jan 26, 2005 02:49PM)
As you say, I'm sure that being ambidextrious in this area would reap some big benefits. I've tried using both hands for some things but I'll have to admit I'm guilty of "favoring" my right hand. It's a matter of having enough things to work on getting right using one hand - having time to perfect mirror images of everything is a luxury I haven't had. But magic is just a hobby for me. I bet some of our more skilled members here can do a lot of things with both hands.
Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (Jan 26, 2005 02:54PM)
I'm a lefty, which presents it's own problems when learning coin magic, as just about everything is taught for right-handed people. I usually learn the moves and effects as they're taught (righty) and then try them left-handed to see which works better for me. Therefore, I can do most of the basic sleights (palms, false transfers, shuttle pass, etc.) with either hand. More difficult sleights (back-palming, back-clipping, etc.) I can do with my left hand only. I've tried working on my right-handed coin roll, but so far, that ain't really happening.
Message: Posted by: makscopes (Jan 26, 2005 03:03PM)
Rob,

Do you feel that the sleights that you can do with both hands have been of benefit to you?
Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (Jan 26, 2005 03:24PM)
Absolutely! If you can invest the time to learn at a minimum, some of the more common sleights with both hands, I would highly recommend doing so. It particularly opens up possibiilities when creating your own routines. Also, as I mentioned, as a lefty, sometimes I reverse routines so I can perform them easier. If I could only do a right-to-left retention pass for example, that would be a real problem.
Message: Posted by: Alchimest (Jan 26, 2005 05:39PM)
It's been a long time since I studied the Roth tapes, but I seem to remember that he emphasized being able to do it with both hands.
Message: Posted by: KirkG (Jan 26, 2005 05:59PM)
Here is the real scoop. YOU can easily learn everything with both hands! The only thing holding you back is your thinking. Piano and guitar players use both hands, as do typists. They never think of which hand it "better," neither should you.

Of course it will take you a little time to unlearn the favoritism, but after that you will be surprised how quickly you can learn the next one and the next one, etc. Just practice it and you will see what I mean.

Many routines use sleights in both hands, shuttle passes, 3 fly, etc.

Kirk G
Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (Jan 26, 2005 06:06PM)
Although, I see the point you're trying to make, I don't think the piano/guitar player analogy really applies. What we're talking about is being able to perform coin sleights either left-handed or right handed. If you gave a right-handed guitar player a left-handed guitar and told him to play it, he wouldn't have a clue.
Message: Posted by: phread (Jan 27, 2005 08:25AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-26 19:06, Rob Elliott wrote:
If you gave a right-handed guitar player a left-handed guitar and told him to play it, he wouldn't have a clue.
[/quote]

not entirely true...however, it would require a little work.
dug
Message: Posted by: cloneman (Jan 27, 2005 09:49AM)
I'm fairly new to coin magic (2 yrs), and until now, have concentrated on learning everything with the right hand. I recently started video taping my routines and realize that favoring my right hand creates predictablilty as to where the coin is. I've now started the frustrating, but beneficial, practice of learning with the left.
Message: Posted by: owen.daniel (Jan 27, 2005 10:26AM)
Certainly some sleights are worth certainly worth learning in both hands. Concealments such as the classic palm, edge grip, and finger palm are important; I also find that there are often cases where I want to be doing a retention pass into my right hand.
Or course do not hinder your process by learning everything in both hands...otherwise you will use valuable time learning things that you will never do. Choose wisely!
owen
Message: Posted by: cloneman (Jan 27, 2005 11:55AM)
Right now I'm doing just what you recommended: learning concealments and several vanishes with both hands. I'm not trying to learn all routines with both handes. I just want to be able to flurry and not always vanish or take with the same hand.
Message: Posted by: Cpontz (Jan 27, 2005 06:11PM)
I agree with Owen. I'm left handed, so I also have to learn things differently. I've found however, that doing some of the basic slights with both hands can be invaluable. However, there are some moves that I only make with my dominent hand. Chose wisely.
Message: Posted by: makscopes (Jan 27, 2005 07:42PM)
I guess that it all boils down to one of the first rules of magic - learn the effect inside and out, backward and forwards, and do it to the best of your ability. It is better to have mastered one effect, than to do 20 half done "tricks."

I have a very good grasp of 3 concelments, 2 switches and 3 slights. Now it is time to master them in "mirror image" and vastly improve the flexiblity of these utility movements.
Message: Posted by: owen.daniel (Jan 28, 2005 02:05AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-27 20:42, makscopes wrote:
Now it is time to master them in "mirror image" and vastly improve the flexiblity of these utility movements.
[/quote]
Exactly as makscopes says, once you can do these in one hand, then move on to two. Once you can do them ambidextrously, then you can go on to create more "flexible" or original magic. The more you can do well, the better you are equiped for any situation you come to.
owen
Message: Posted by: Tilman (Feb 1, 2005 01:28PM)
Just a tip for when you start practising a move with your weak hand:

I found that my weak hand learns moves a LOT faster, when I do the same movement with my strong hand simultaneously. Also, it allows you to compare the movements of both hands and to assimilate the movements of your weak hand to those of your strong one.
Message: Posted by: jocce (Feb 2, 2005 01:27AM)
I also think it might be easier as a total newbie to learn with both hands right from the start. If you're an experienced onehanded magician I can imagine it is a more frustrating experience going back and feel almost like a beginner again. If the amount of work put in is the same, I belive the experienced onehanded will progress a lot faster than the beginner. But they key phrase in that is "if the same amount of work is put in". Finding that motivation in such a frustrating experience when you "know" you do can do it well must be awful.

I can honestly say both my hands work equally well. Both suck...

/J
Message: Posted by: Charles Adams (Feb 2, 2005 12:35PM)
It is much better to able to palm and vanish with both hands. Currently, I am attempting to learn to palm cards with both hands.
Message: Posted by: iarwain (Feb 2, 2005 01:08PM)
[quote]
Or course do not hinder your process by learning everything in both hands...otherwise you will use valuable time learning things that you will never do. Choose wisely!
[/quote]

Sounds like good advice. Keeping in mind that there is only a finite amount of time to practice: I'm finding that with magic in general, the most difficult thing is deciding what to leave out.