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Topic: Sponge balls and cups and balls
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Feb 11, 2005 06:28AM)
Ive done cards for long time and bought sponge balls and cups and balls
I only know 1 routine for each of these and don't have money for dvd's at the moment cans um1 give me a link to 1 simple routine or 2 whatever you want.. it would be evry welcome or just pm me cause I'm evry interested in both of these thingies:) thank you very much!
Message: Posted by: saturnin (Feb 11, 2005 07:19AM)
I really doubt you will find what you are looking for for free on the internet.

I strongly suggest you get Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic (check e-bay), or the Carl Andrews' Table Hooping Cups & Balls DVD (which also explains his Sponge Balls routine titled "Ain't No More".

Ronnie Lemieux
Message: Posted by: BerkleyJL (Feb 11, 2005 07:53AM)
Both Cups and Balls and Spongeballs are wonderful in that you can create any routine you like once you learn the basic moves.

If you know a routine with spongeballs I imagine you know how to "hold out" and perform a simple vanish. Experiment with different ways of revealing the vanished ball.

For Cups and Balls, if you only know the basic Penetration sequence, you will need to find a resource to teach you other moves so you can flesh out an advanced routine. I recommend "25 Tricks with Cups and Balls" or for a really complete experience "The Complete Cups and Balls" by Michael Ammar. Since you said you don't have money for DVDs...I'll give you a hint here:

The vanish you likely use for spongeballs can be used with the small balls for C&B. The way you setup for the penetration sequence can be used to set up for "returning" a ball vanished in this method.

You may PM me for more help but I'm not sure how much I can teach through this forum. Books and videos really will be the best way to go, but I'll try to help as much as I can, since I completely understand the concept of restricted budgeting.

Message: Posted by: fccfp (Feb 11, 2005 08:04AM)

I also understand the problems of the underfunded. It's tuff to learn magic if you can't perform to earn money to pay for the magic you need to learn or acquire.

The Carl Andrews Video mentioned above is very good. If you can pick it up used, do so. I have it and still go back to it from time to time to pick up other bits to use in my routines.

By way of help, you can use the sponge balls as final loads for the cups and that can lead you into the sponge ball routine. THe Andrew's routine is very clever and commecial. However, since most of my shows are not done at a table, but family oriented. I try to make the child doing the trick with me the star. everything happens in thier hands.
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Feb 11, 2005 08:17AM)
Thank you very much all the name is michiel btw ;)(dutch :P )
I really appreciate al of your help hehe but I don't know any of the moves just the penetration thing with cups and balls and with spongeballs a simple 1+1=3 thingy:(
Message: Posted by: Kent Wong (Feb 11, 2005 08:46AM)
I have often found that my local library has some surprising books on magic. They even carried the Mark Wilson Course on Magic, which contains pretty much everything you may be looking for.

Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Feb 11, 2005 09:53AM)
Yes but I don't live in america or whatever :P

AND.... there r very few magic shops here which makes it extra hard :( :(
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Feb 11, 2005 10:21AM)
I just received in the mail a wonderful C&B routine booklet. Price was only $10 US.

Go to [url=http://www.thinklikeaconjurer.com/purchase_items/rntcb/rntcb.htm]this site[/url]

It comes highly recommended, and teaches some subtleties in loading I haven't seen in print before.
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Feb 11, 2005 10:36AM)
Thanks and btw you have a dutch name;) heheh
Message: Posted by: BerkleyJL (Feb 11, 2005 10:44AM)
I just ordered a copy of that book, too. Thanks for the tip, Dave.
Pete Biro's endorsement was the selling point for me!
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Feb 11, 2005 10:46AM)
With ordinary cups and balls can you also do 3 card monte hehe don't know english name for cups and balls mionte:P
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 11, 2005 11:09AM)
Hello Michiel:

There are a number of people in the Netherlands who build magic props. Auke van Dokkum in Urk, for example, makes some of the finest cups anywhere. And there is Eddy Taytelbaum in van der Haag, who makes wonderful small props -- but very expensive.

You may have to go to Germany to find any large shops, though. It might be worth a trip to Essen to see Theo Böhm's shop.
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Feb 11, 2005 11:15AM)
Waaauw thank you very much ill surely contact them:) and you knew all the places aswell awesome!!(they r 1 heck away from me but holland is very small so;))

can you do that gambling game with just 3 cups and 1 ball(or 3 balls don't even know how it works I know 3 card monte but I'm com,pletely new with cups and balls and spongeballs::)
Message: Posted by: BerkleyJL (Feb 11, 2005 12:55PM)
On 2005-02-11 12:15, MichielTummers wrote:
Waaauw thank you very much ill surely contact them:) and you knew all the places aswell awesome!!(they r 1 heck away from me but holland is very small so;))

can you do that gambling game with just 3 cups and 1 ball(or 3 balls don't even know how it works I know 3 card monte but I'm com,pletely new with cups and balls and spongeballs::)

Sounds like you're talking about the 3 Shell Game. It can be done with Cups and Balls, but you'll likely use a different principle. Personally, I don't like challenging my spectators like that too often, because it comes across as kind of arrogant, and then you get people who'll blurt out ideas of how it's done. Better to amaze and entertain than challenge and confuse.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 11, 2005 11:33PM)
There is a version of this that uses three cups and a ball, but it's not as easy to work with or as entertaining as the shell game.

Here is another Dutch resource for magic, both in shops and on line:
Message: Posted by: Tilman (Feb 12, 2005 11:20AM)
Hi Michiel,

You do not have to live in the USA in order to find libraries that have magic books. The library of the Universiteit van Amsterdam, for example, has an excellent collection of magic books (mostly 1930-1960 was my impression when having a superficial look at their catalogue) - possibly the best collection in the Netherlands that is accessible to the general public. I can only imagine that one of their teachers or librarians must have been an amateur magician and used his position to influence acquisitions. Even a search for 'cups and balls' delivers results.
You can find the catalogue at:


If you want to search nationwide, you may want to use the Nederlandse Centrale Catalogus. You find it here:


You will need a password, however. You can get one at your nearest university library or perhaps even at your local public library.

Of course, if you know beforehand what you are looking for, you can search these catalogues much more effectively. So it would be a good idea to first look up relevant titles and then look for them.
There were excellent bibliographies (both for sponge ball magic and the cups and balls) at the following site ("magic reference page"), but it does not seem to be on the web at present. Perhaps you can check again in a few days.


A very incomplete bibliography for the cups and balls can be found here:


A good way to learn about more recent routines (acquisition of magic books by university and public libraries has gone downhill over the last years in the Netherlands) is to join a magic club. You will find a list of Dutch clubs at

http://www.goochelen-nmu.nl/start.html (choose 'goochelen' on top and then 'goochelclub' on the bottom of the page)

I have not joined a club in the Netherlands, so unfortunately I cannot recommend any. But as you will see on the above website, some of them even have libraries which may be a good resource for you to explore.

Lastly, a search in the Café will show you that some members have posted videoclips of their performances of the cups and balls (not so sure for sponge ball magic) or of individual moves. You can learn a great deal from watching these clips.

I hope this helps.
Good luck! Tilman

Hi, just saw that I had a link to the magic reference page that worked. It is

Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Feb 13, 2005 05:00AM)
Wooo you r the best haha can you speak dutch btw or do you have MSN?:)
Message: Posted by: magicandrew (Feb 13, 2005 05:15AM)
Try put the sponge balls together with the cups and balls. Some very nice routines are possible. If you want pm me for more details.
Message: Posted by: Sean (Feb 13, 2005 09:04AM)
I recommend the Mark Wilson book, which has a great Cups and Balls routine and a lengthy sponge ball routine. (And a lot more great magic!) Since funding is a problem, check ebay for the book or Amazon.com, either the US or UK sites. You can get the book for about $12 US from Amazon. A quick search on eBay shows several copies starting at about $3.50 US.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 13, 2005 10:00AM)
Even better would be two books by Laurie Ireland. One is called [i]The Sponge Book[/i] and the other is [i]Ireland's Original Cup and Ball Routines.[/i] Ireland was one of the early proponents of using sponge balls in the cups and balls.

However, I would warn you against making up a combination routine that takes too much time. When you do this, you run the risk of either confusing or boring the spectators, neither of which is magical.
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Feb 14, 2005 06:08PM)
The version of "The Sponge Book" I have is not by Laurie Ireland, although it does have some Ireland effects in it. It was published by Magic Inc, in 1973 and was edited by Frank Marshall. Goshman features prominently.

With regard to C&B and sponges alone, you will need different types of sponges, so don't mix the effects. Best sponges for C&B are harder type bath sponge about 7/8" dia (depending on cups), and best for hand sponge magic are the very soft type, about 2" dia.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 14, 2005 06:35PM)
That's the same book. You are right. Laurie Ireland did not write it. His wife, Frances Ireland, edited it. She became Frances Marshall when she married Jay Marshall. It was originally published in 1960.

There is a sponge ball routine in there by Laurie Ireland, though, that is really excellent. It is called Big and Little Sponges. It's on page 15. The change from a little ball into a big one is quite dramatic.

Also, look into the Johnny Paul cups and balls video. He worked with sponge balls.