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Topic: C & B Ball - Accurate Meaurements
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 11, 2005 10:46PM)
I have a set of crocheted balls for the cups and balls, and wish to order another set of the exact same size. They are bigger than 7/8", but smaller than 1".

The balls In order to more accurately judge which size balls to order a matching set, I would like to know if, in general - or in your personal experience - , crocheted balls tend to run larger or smaller than their listed measurements.

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 11, 2005 11:26PM)
Mark:

Some people who make crocheted balls for cups and balls give the final size as the measurement. Others use the size of the ball that is the core of the crocheted ball. So the final size may actually be larger than the nominal size.

When I purchase balls for the cups and balls, I usually purchase them from the company that manufactures the cups.

What cups are you trying to order a set of balls for? There is a chance that the cups you are ordering the balls for are manufactured in a country that uses the metric system, which will throw all of your measurements into a different category entirely.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 11, 2005 11:36PM)
Thanks, Bill.

The cups are Morrissey - the old vintage set - but I am not sure that the balls are original :^0 . Canada, if I am not mistaken. If the metric system doesn't get me then changes over time might. ;^)

I kind of figured this might be a trial and error situation, though.

Mark
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Feb 12, 2005 08:06PM)
It sounds like you want 15/16" If you are getting down to that fine a requirement it may be that the tolerences in a item like crocheted balls would exceed 1/16"

So yes, trial and error may be the only way...
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 12, 2005 08:19PM)
For what it is worth, I am finding (from Bill P. and answers from reputable online stores) that more often than not, balls are listed by their core measurement, so the actual size will more often than not, run larger than the actual measurement listed.

With me, 1" is my absolute max to still be able to do the Cup and Ball moves I desire to do without too much risk of flashing the ball in my hand. That said, I also want as close to 1" as possible for aesthetic and visibility reasons. A friend has a set of 1" balls that are actually significantly larger due to the size of the cloth material covering it.

Again, for what it is worth...

Mark

Knowing these things in advance can be very helpful in placing an order that will not have to be returned!

Mark
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 13, 2005 10:05AM)
When you order balls in large quantities, which I do for my business, you find that not only are the crocheted balls of different sizes from what you ordered, sometimes the core balls are, too. For example, if I order a set of 1/2 inch cork balls from Hobby Lobby or Michael's, they will usually be 1 cm. That's closer to 7/16 inch than 1/2 inch. But these places don't want to confuse their customers, so they call them by the size most of us know. I'd rather know what I'm getting.

When I put the sets of Laurie Ireland cups together, I had to check through the offerings of three different sources before I found the balls I liked. Fortunately, they are quite consistent.
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Feb 13, 2005 04:16PM)
It could also be that getting hold of some balls and then asking a local craft worker to cover them for you may be a good solution. By having a greater control on materials and workmanship, you can obtain finer tolerance. Give the worker a template with a hole cut in of the exact size you want so they can check the ball just passes through as they are making them up.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 13, 2005 05:46PM)
Actually, I am thinking about learning to crochet. It would give me a lot of options.
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Feb 14, 2005 07:13AM)
Another way to cover would be using two shaped pieces of material baseball/tennisball style and sewing them together. This gives good control on size.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 14, 2005 06:38PM)
Have you actually ever tried this?
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Feb 14, 2005 06:57PM)
Yep. Sew inside out, flush butt in the oversewing style, fit over the ball and sew up the flap using a curved needle if needs be. Small stiches are needed and it is VERY tedious for me to get a neat result. However, I am not particulary good at sewing and there are many others who would no doubt knock this task off quickly. Did you try it?
Message: Posted by: Bob Johnston (Feb 16, 2005 09:50PM)
Chessmann:

My motto, Trust no ones measurements EXCEPT Bill Palmers.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 17, 2005 12:07AM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-14 19:57, BlackShadow wrote:
Yep. Sew inside out, flush butt in the oversewing style, fit over the ball and sew up the flap using a curved needle if needs be. Small stiches are needed and it is VERY tedious for me to get a neat result. However, I am not particulary good at sewing and there are many others who would no doubt knock this task off quickly. Did you try it?
[/quote]

No, I left this kind of work to whoever it was who was making these for Mike Rogers. Auke Van Dokkum makes some very nice baseballs, too. I'm too nearsighted to do this kind of thing. I wind up poking myself in the fingers. That's not fun!

However, there is a book I am working on right now by Bruno Hennig. It is a German item called [i]Kleines Becherspiel Kompendium.[/i] In the back there are instructions on how to make the traditional cloth balls that were used in the old days. He has the proportions and everything.
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Feb 17, 2005 05:41PM)
That's interesting. I've often wondered how the past generations of workers made their balls or what materials different performers used. We need something firm yet soft, durable yet silent, accurate in size, good looking, and hopefully not too expensive. It's not a simple set of requirements to satisfy.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 17, 2005 09:06PM)
Why *blackened* cork? I have heard many times the some balls used for the cups and balls are blackened cork, but I have never heard the reason. Actually, never curious about it until today. Visibility? Does a blackened cork 'talk' less?
Message: Posted by: BSutter (Feb 18, 2005 07:24AM)
Blackened cork makes the balls identical in appearance. Cork balls with a natural finish will each have a different look.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 18, 2005 11:01AM)
Some workers would simply take a wine bottle cork and cut it into slices. The "balls" weren't round, but they all had a similar appearance, if the cork were not too heavily soaked with wine at one end. Max Malini did this.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Feb 18, 2005 12:49PM)
I bought some cork balls from a craft store, and liked them very much. Unfortunately, they 'talk' too much my handling. Tried coating them with rubber cement - made they very easy to palm, but it also removed their ability to skid between the cups, which made for some interesting moments.

It is fun to try out new things, and experiment, but for right now it is back to the standard crocheted version.