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Topic: Compound miters and plywood
Message: Posted by: calimagician (Mar 23, 2005 08:09PM)
Okay, probably a very basic question. But one I must ask.

Might someone be able to direct me to a website that might have instructions and illustrations on how to perform compound miters in plywood on a table saw? I understand the basic concept, but would like to do a bit more research before trying one.

Bet you'd never guess, I am about to build an "illusion base". Ha!

I know this is a "basic" in illusion work. But, I have never done it.

Of course I will do a "test on a smaller base" before doing the actual thing. But--

I just wanna see how a "pro" does it before I jump in and try one.

Any direction will be helpful and greatly appreciated.


Thanks,



Calimagician
Message: Posted by: Leland Stone (Mar 24, 2005 08:04AM)
Hiya, Cali:

Don't know about a Web site, but this kind of info is readily available in most basic tablesaw texts. If you're close to a Rockler or WoodCraft store, one of the clerks should be able to direct you to an appropriate tome for around $20.

Here's the bottom line: Complement the 90. Assuming your base has 90 degree corners, then the face and edge angles need to total 90 degrees. If the face angle's 40 degrees, then the edge angle will be 50, and so on.

Yep, you'll want a nice, shiny, new protractor while you're there at Rockler.

Leland
Message: Posted by: Deke Rivers (Mar 24, 2005 12:29PM)
Don't assume that beveled bases are necessary for a deceptive look. In "Device and Illusion", Jim Steinmeyer of all people discusses a lack of understanding, or at least not total confidence, in the beveled bases (don't quote me, but something to that effect is in there.)

There are a LOT of "flat" bases that can look good. Check out the Wakeling book for some ideas, too.
Message: Posted by: Thomas Wayne (Mar 24, 2005 03:29PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-24 13:29, Deke Rivers wrote:
Don't assume that beveled bases are necessary for a deceptive look. In "Device and Illusion", Jim Steinmeyer of all people discusses a lack of understanding, or at least not total confidence, in the beveled bases (don't quote me, but something to that effect is in there.)
[...][/quote]

Actually, Steinmeyer is addressing the WEDGED BASE in the passage you're referring to; importantly, the wedged base is very different than the beveled base that is being discussed in this thread.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
Message: Posted by: Scruffy the Clown (Mar 24, 2005 04:07PM)
Spend the money on a top quality plywood blade. For the final product use mdf plywood. It paints the best.

Go slow. Remember all angles have to add up to 90. You will develop a new appreciation for the pros and what they charge.

Sorry, MDO plywood. It has a paper covering and is commonly used to make signs.
Message: Posted by: Deke Rivers (Mar 27, 2005 07:23PM)
WEDGED base. I stand corrected. But, I also stand by my comment that a good understanding of multi-layered bases (of which Wakeling had many innvations) can be extremely deceptive and easier to build.

Now, as to the original question, when I made my beveled bases I used a variation on the biscuit joints for strength (I actually used wooden strips glued into saw cuts, as I didn't have a biscuit cutter.) Use them if you can.
Message: Posted by: calimagician (Mar 27, 2005 09:01PM)
Thank you ALL for your advise, suggestions, and help.

It is greatly appreciated!


All my Best,



Calimagician
Message: Posted by: Thomas Wayne (Mar 29, 2005 02:18AM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-27 20:23, Deke Rivers wrote:
WEDGED base. I stand corrected. But, I also stand by my comment that a good understanding of multi-layered bases (of which Wakeling had many innvations) can be extremely deceptive and easier to build.

Now, as to the original question, when I made my beveled bases I used a variation on the biscuit joints for strength (I actually used wooden strips glued into saw cuts, as I didn't have a biscuit cutter.) Use them if you can.
[/quote]

I agree; the beveled base, with very few exceptions, has been rendered obsolete by the many deceptive techniques using stepped and layered bases - many of which Alan Wakeling devised.

Regarding gluing wooden strips into saw cuts, the grooves for these strips often can be made more easily and safely using a heavy-duty router and a bearing-guided slotting bit. This is a very strong construction technique, btw.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
Message: Posted by: redwine (Apr 10, 2005 09:40PM)
A beveled base is a very uncommon construction. A few text books talk about hoppers. Which are boxes whose bases are smaller than the mouth. If that was flipped up side down it would begin to resumble a base. Some plan books have settings for these type of things but realise they are tilted at 30-40 degrees. Your base is going to be upside down and "moving at 7-9degrees tops. In order to really do this you have to learn 2 skilz. One you have to be able to draw the base in scale. If you are serious about this you can get the book Drafting for Theater by Rich Rose. Of interest is the chaper on Tru-Shape. The next thing you have to do is translate your paper drawing to settings for the table saw chop saw. This is the hard part. The only people who do this are framing carpenters who specialize in hip roofs. Taunton press has a book called Framing roofs which shows how to use Algebra to figure the angles necessary. This is the "back-palm" of illusion building. Do your home work and you can make anything from a birdcage vanish to a base for a girl.
Owen