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Topic: Coin/knuckle roll
Message: Posted by: davidtan (Apr 16, 2005 09:53AM)
Can anyone suggest to me a good place to learn this flourish (preferably free, but if there's a DVD which is particularly good, I'd consider it...)

Message: Posted by: popec (Apr 16, 2005 10:19AM)
Message: Posted by: Gary Barnard (Apr 16, 2005 11:24AM)
Well, Jeff McBride has some videos out called "World Class Manipulation" and that series has many coin manipulations on it. Its a very good video and you can learn a lot from it. If you would like to read more about it, heres the link:http://gatlinburgmagic.com/More%20Videos%201.htm

Hope this helps, man.

Message: Posted by: Dredz (Apr 16, 2005 11:53AM)
I also teach this on my Dvd Xtreme Koin Magic. I also teach a 4 and 5 coin downstar and even teach a rollout. Lots of good stuff. http://www.joethemagician.com/Store/store.htm

I am about to sell out of the limited first edition covers. Only 10 left...Later..Joe
Message: Posted by: DrSammy (Apr 16, 2005 12:08PM)
Hey popec,

I just had a look at your site. There's some very nice video on there. It makes we wish I had practiced more in my youth.

Although it wasn't a coin video, I also quite liked your billiard juggling. It reminds me of the sort of thing that Michael Moschen does. http://www.michaelmoschen.com (Not a site for coin guys really. Just for those of you who don't know about this guy.)

Message: Posted by: Clarioneer (Apr 16, 2005 08:28PM)
Once seen you know how to do it - it just takes time... for me... practise then take a break for a week or so - then try again - seems to come on in leaps and bounds but a break is important as you get used to a certain speed and can't jump to the next level... worth the effort - calling card - and just fun to do...
Message: Posted by: popec (Apr 17, 2005 01:01AM)
Hey hey, that's not my site! No way I'm that good :P It's that Wrenn guy's, he's a member here too.
Message: Posted by: DrSammy (Apr 19, 2005 10:52AM)
My apologies for the wrong attribution. Wrenn, if you're reading, mea culpa.

Thanks for pointing that out, popec. I wish you luck becoming that good. Or better, perhaps?

Message: Posted by: Charlie Justice (Apr 19, 2005 11:02AM)
Has anyone ever seen anyone do a coin roll backwards?
Message: Posted by: popec (Apr 19, 2005 11:10AM)
Yeah, Wrenn does it on his vids. Or if you mean on the under side of your knuckles, I have see David Stone do it on one of his tapes.
Message: Posted by: Chris "linkster" Watson (Apr 20, 2005 05:57AM)
Hi Charlie,

By backwards do you mean back up the fingers, or do you mean turning the back of your hand towards the floor and rolling the coin across the front of the fingers?

Both come reasonably quickly once you get the main roll down smoothy.

Saw Goshman doing the roll down, back up and then on the inside of his hand which is where I got my inspiration from. (that was on video not in person sadly :( )

Bobo's teaches the flourish, if you haven't got that book then I would reccomend getting it...you'll learn lots.

Message: Posted by: llsouder (Apr 20, 2005 08:44AM)
Wow, I like that coinManip... site too! I saw a guy use a the coin roll for misdirection and creating an offbeat so I said to myself I must learn the it. I tried to learn this way back when I was a kid and so my fingers kind of know what to do but I never really got it. The coinmanip site has lots of flourishes to consider for misdirection, so if I never learn the roll maybe I can use something I can do.

Thanks again for the link!
Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (Apr 20, 2005 03:52PM)
On 2005-04-20 09:44, llsouder wrote:
I tried to learn this way back when I was a kid and so my fingers kind of know what to do but I never really got it. [/quote]

A minute to learn... a lifetime to master.
Message: Posted by: harris (Apr 20, 2005 06:20PM)
I remember seeing Martin Landau do this on Mission Impossible (the TV show)

After that I was doing it, long before I knew anything about coin magic.

Last night I was doing some copper silver changes with a penny and nickle.(rather than a half and an english penny. This was at a S.A.M. meeting. Some people were commenting more on the rolling and the c/p with the small coins than the routine.(This doesn't happen when I share the same routine with lay folks.) To them a coin is a coin is a coin.(By any other name....but I digress)

Years ago I recall Mr. Goshman suggesting rolling coins with another coin in c/p.

I hope to meet some of you in Boston for the S.A.M. National Convention.

I will be on a panel sharing about use of magic with a message.

Thanks for inspiring me to continue to explore the possibilities with coins.

Last night before my coin routines, I decided to play a little Whose line is it anyway. I turned the small round table into the steering wheel of a car. Someone in the audience suggested I get a couple of phone books to sit on. (probably due to my staturesque/sic? 5'5" frame.

Harris "Palms of Aluminum Foil" Deutsch
for the lighter touch in coin magic.
Laughologist and Nearly Normal Coin Guy
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (Apr 21, 2005 09:09PM)
Honestly, you don't need a book to learn this flourish. I spent hours and hours mastering it...I guess I still am on my off hand.

Practice is the key.
Message: Posted by: Pants99 (Apr 21, 2005 11:43PM)
Yeah, no book or vid is needed- just plenty of trial and hopefully less error.
Message: Posted by: the74rock (Apr 22, 2005 12:46AM)
If you want DVDs get David Roth's on flourishes.
Message: Posted by: harris (Apr 23, 2005 10:36AM)
Try practicing this while watching a video or tv show.

I still practice this when sitting listening to lectures. Last week I was at an all day conference on working with clients with anxiety disorders.(but I digress...)

Message: Posted by: ehands (Apr 24, 2005 06:03PM)
On 2005-04-16 21:28, Clarioneer wrote:
for me... practise then take a break for a week or so - seems to come on in leaps and bounds but a break is important ... worth the effort -

Interesting, I hadn't noticed, but maybe I just was not alert to it. I did notice the time of day makes a huge difference for me. Also was pleased that my progress went up slowly (an additional set every few days) until I could could do 10 complete sets without a fumble, then the advances came faster, i.e., multiple-set-additions each day if and only if it was not too late in the evening. Then I am really poor!
Message: Posted by: juggler13 (Apr 24, 2005 06:54PM)
I can get two pretty well. It took me forever. I have always practiced with two coins. It helped my single coin roll.
Message: Posted by: magicrj (May 22, 2005 06:42AM)
Ah the key to a good coin roll. It would be to not try to pull the coin over with the next finger. THe secret is to simply let gravity do the work by a tilting your hand and as the coin moves to the next crack use the next knuckle as a blocker to stop it. The rotation (or flipping of the coin) will happen automatically as the coin continues to fall in the crack between each set of fingers.
Message: Posted by: todsky (May 22, 2005 09:47AM)
Does anyone roll one in each hand simultaneously, around the top and then the undersides of the fingers? That would be a lovely sight!
Message: Posted by: Sam Tabar (May 23, 2005 01:45PM)
Todsky, Jeff McBride does that with four coins in each hand.
Message: Posted by: todsky (May 23, 2005 03:16PM)
On 2005-05-23 14:45, brianclementsvatua wrote:
Todsky, Jeff McBride does that with four coins in each hand.

That's just crazy!
Message: Posted by: Sam Tabar (May 24, 2005 05:56PM)
Crazy as it may sound but he does it. And he does it well. If you have the "Mysteries of Magic" video you can see him there doing it while being interviewed regarding sleight-of-hand.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Godsey (May 25, 2005 12:08AM)
On 2005-05-22 10:47, todsky wrote:
Does anyone roll one in each hand simultaneously, around the top and then the undersides of the fingers? That would be a lovely sight!

This is my favorite method of rolling...it is the most graceful and rhythmic. I believe that it was a T. Nelson Downs variant.

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey
Message: Posted by: todsky (May 25, 2005 10:58AM)
Glenn, do you need to be a piano player to do this? How long did it take you to go from one hand to two hands simultaneously?
Message: Posted by: Khopri (May 25, 2005 11:41AM)
Started learning this one in High School. Practiced it whenever I had time. Now I do a coin roll when I'm nervous or anxious. After 15 years I'm STILL clunky with the roll.

It's way too much effort for a flourish.
Message: Posted by: harris (May 25, 2005 02:11PM)
Here's one with the roll that I have been having fun with.

1. Coin roll a dime(US) and then c/p it while appearing to throw it away.
2. While c/p the dime coin roll a penny and then c/p it on top of the dime while appearing to throw it away.
3. While c/p the 2 coins, roll a nickel on your fingers and then c/p it on top of the dime and penney, while appearing to throw it away.
4. While c/p the 3 coins coin roll a quarter while c/p the 3 coins and then c/p it on top of the dime,penney,nickel, while appearing to throw it away.
5. While c/p the 4 coins coin roll a liberty half dollar while c/p the 4 coins and then c/p it on top of the dime,penney, nickel, and quarter, while appearing to throw it away.

6. Then do the process in reverse pulling the top coin out of the air (first the half dollar) coin roll it and put it on your close up mat. As they say with shampooing your hair... Repeat

Have fun, let me know if you use it!

I showed it to a few people at U.S. Toys Magic. I said it was just a silly "little routine" to onlookers, but they seemed to enjoy it.

Of course to lay people the size of the coins doesn't matter as it would to another magician.

I do most of my stuff for lay folks.

Harris "palms of aluminum foil" Deutsch
For the lighter touch in coin magic
Message: Posted by: WRandall (May 25, 2005 04:35PM)
Hey guys, what are your feelings on finger extention during the coin roll. In other words, do you try to keep your finger tips pointed downward while rolling, or do you hold your fingers out kinda straight? Someone recently advised me to keep my finger tips curved downward. I think I do like that better, aesthetically speaking, though I have to straighten out my fingers for a mili-second when I pull the coin under with my thumb to restart. Any advice on this?

Message: Posted by: Dredz (May 25, 2005 08:30PM)
I keep my fingers curled in....I think it looks better.. http://www.JoeJesse.com/Videos/media/Freestyle_Battle.wmv
The beginning of the video is how I do my coin roll. I will soon have a vid of all coin rolls...variations...ect...
I also like to roll the coin simultaniously in both handz on the outside and inside of the fingers....Enjoy...ps if you don't like X.C.M don't watch....later...
Message: Posted by: yahu (May 25, 2005 08:44PM)
If Dredz says that's the way to go, I'd recommend you take his advice. he's one of the best coin manipulators I've ever seen.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Godsey (May 26, 2005 12:16AM)
On 2005-05-25 11:58, todsky wrote:
Glenn, do you need to be a piano player to do this? How long did it take you to go from one hand to two hands simultaneously?
I practiced the rolls whenever I watched TV, starting in about 1967. It took me several months to go to two hands, but that could be shortened with good instruction and preparation. Remember to curl your fingers. You are initially balancing the coin on the back of your large nuckle, then the fingers (or thumb) on each side are going to teeter-totter it. Practice balancing the coin, then just raising and lowering each edge with the adjacent finger. If the backs of your fingers seem too slick, apply some SortKwik. If you have hairy nuckles, trim them...the hair is too slick and I assure you that no one will ever notice your trimmed or shaved nuckles.

I wish I could post some video, but I am not savvy to how to do that.

Persevere !

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey
Message: Posted by: WRandall (May 26, 2005 10:33AM)
Dredz, thanks for posting the link. Great stuff, man. You're curling your fingers down a little more than I do, and I like the effect. I'll keep working on it.

Message: Posted by: Sam Tabar (May 27, 2005 03:57AM)
I don't know how you can roll a coin with your fingers straight out. Jeff McBride in his World Class Manipulations video says that you should keep your hand in a somewhat very loose fist.
Message: Posted by: WRandall (May 28, 2005 04:27PM)
Never said "straight out", just kinda straight. More so than Dredz in his video, but less so than a wave goodbye. The only time my fingers flash out for a full extention is for a split-second while pulling the coin under with my thumb in a one-hand roll. Workin on minimizing that.
Message: Posted by: harris (Jun 7, 2005 12:15PM)

After using the coin roll, friend of mine suggested I pick up the piano.

It is too heavy, so I am going with the Melodica. This is a wind instrument/key board more popular back in the 60's.

Actually I will produce the small piano from silks. As part of a routine with Chanin's Coins under silk routine.(I am not sure of the correct name of this J.C. routine which has a lot of possibilities and variations)

Posted: Jun 8, 2005 11:26am
Here's the latest coin roll exercise from the Nearly Normal One.

Start with 3 coins c/p in your hand.

Reach out and produce the one that is furthest from the palm.

Coin roll coin # 1 a few times.

When coin # 1 reaches the space between the ring and pinky, drop coin # 2 and bring it up between the thumb and index finger and begin coin rolling coin #1 and coin # 2.

Do this a few times.

When coin # 1 reaches the space between the ring and pinky, and coin # 2 is between the middle and ring finger, drop coin # 3 from c/p and bring it up between the thumb and index finger and begin coin rolling coin #1 and coin # 2 and #3.

The reverse process is not so easy!

I think of this stuff while playing with a few coins watching t.v. or in the car, while my wife is driving. It is not safe to do it when I am driving. (but....

Two liberty halfs worth by...

Harris "Palms of Aluminum Foil" Deutsch
For a Lighter Touch in Coin Magic
Message: Posted by: Dredz (Jun 8, 2005 10:33AM)
If you really want to get the creative juices going you should definitely check out http://www.kainoaland.com/

He is the one of the best....
Message: Posted by: Darren Kidby (Jul 8, 2005 08:58AM)
I have been trying to do the coin roll for about a week now, and I must say I am happy with my progress, I can now do it 10 times in a row no problem when I am sitting down, but find it a little more difficult if I am standing.
Also I find it easier with a silver half doller, I think this must be because it is heavier.

Message: Posted by: Dredz (Jul 8, 2005 10:28AM)
If you perform standing then I suggest you practice standing. YOur hands are in two different positions...I am always standing while performing....So..I practice standing up....

When I used to play guitar I would practice sitting down...I was quite good sitting down. One day I tried to join a band and got myself a guitar strap. I treid playing standing up and struggled.....This is my point....

If you perform mostly sitting....Then you are on your way...I just don't want you to develope a bad habit that will be hard to fix down the road
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Jul 8, 2005 11:26AM)
Hey dredz, nice work man! :) Oh, and you've got one of the coolest pics on the site. ;) -MB

***PS- are you and my man GodHandz (The Karate Kid/The E-Man, Eric Jones) related??? That "z" is magically familiar and I believe you two cats are from the same state...Hmmmmm...:) Would love to see you two guys link up for a vid, like Apollo and Shoot. You both got the goods, deeper understanding, appreciation and fine abilities... You both have real love & attitude (which truly defines "altitude") for what you do ;) Both of you guys are young, wonderful coin and card men individually but reach out to one another since you're so close in proximity and perhaps find a new strength, friendship and perhaps partnership in the magic of the "z"...:) It could work, another sort of "Cultural Exchange - East Coast in the House!" Combine your many talents and abilities and FLAME ON! ;)

When I first started doing the coin roll, I practiced nearly everyday when I wasn't doing anything special. I found it interesting to practice in the back of the commuter bus as the bus would be somewhat bumpy at times and the momentum would move your whole body from side to side. This at first would affect the coin's movement and often I lost control, chasing the coin down the aile. :) But as I got better at it I had more control. I would then walk to the subway stations and would coin roll as I walked, another challenge as you dodge people all in your way as you're constantly looking down and trying not to drop the coin on the NYC streets. After a while, you become confident enough to not watch the coin much at all while walking. When I dared losing it walking over a sidewalk grate, I knew I had it pretty well...when I could also walk through crowds of people and not drop it without looking at it, again I knew I had it. I did drop it once down on the subway tracks and had to cautiously retrieve it. :) Actually, I wrote a story about the psychology of the coin roll, how it controls you before you control it. :) It was a marvelous exercise and proved once again that you can do anything when you really put your mind to it, even all the many variations on it are doable if you practice it long enough with real desire to get it right. ;) Funny how after you get it down, it's hard to believe that you ever found it that difficult to begin with. Such is life. :)
Message: Posted by: Dredz (Jul 9, 2005 08:04AM)
That is almost my story. Just a different state. It is crazy how you can become obsessed by a move or sleight. Try doing downs stars while walking and talking. After a while it becomes second nature. Mb217 hit the nail right on the head with that last line in his post.
Message: Posted by: dan84 (Jul 14, 2005 09:01AM)
Save your money and do what most people don't do.... Practice. Everyone is after the latest video or book but very few actually practice. Start slow and it will come in time.
Message: Posted by: Dredz (Jul 14, 2005 01:15PM)
On 2005-07-14 10:01, dan84 wrote:
Save your money and do what most people don't do.... Practice. Everyone is after the latest video or book but very few actually practice. Start slow and it will come in time.

You are right to an extent. If you don't get the right material, or material that is taught poorly, then your practice will be in vain. There are lots of little notes or "ideas" that make the learning process easier.. But you are correct. Most want to be able to run before they can walk.
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Jul 14, 2005 01:58PM)
How many are you guys up to? I figured out the pattern for two very shortly after learning one, but I could never do three. I kept trying and trying for about a year or two, and finally one day I just "got" the pattern. It clicked and everything fell into place. Now I'm working on getting 3 smoother, but I can finally do 3. I tried 4, but I have the same problem I had when learning three, I can't get the pattern down. (The pattern being: Which coin is grabbed and released at what time with which fingers). The neat thing about rolling two is that you can actually use it as a color change without using classic palm.
Message: Posted by: Dredz (Jul 14, 2005 02:55PM)
I can do 8....4 in each hand....I learned it from McBrides tapes. I don't really see the point. (Gasp) Anything over 2 mabey 3 is a waste...Although I took the time to learn it..LOL....
Message: Posted by: Jordini (Jul 14, 2005 07:55PM)
It's also fun to roll jumbo coins, but I haven't tried anything over 3". I'd imagine that those 10" would be just a little bit tough to roll.......