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Topic: Roots of the "Ring of Truth"
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Apr 23, 2005 10:15PM)
I am looking for the origins of the "Truthteller/Liar" effect...it has been presented by Banacheck, Rick Maue et. al., but I knew this premise some 12 yrs ago as taught to me by my elder magi...

So I'm calling on all you magic history buffs...I'm putting together a book with a "voodoo" presentation, and I want to give proper credit.

Thanks ahead.

Message: Posted by: handa (Apr 23, 2005 10:43PM)
Rick has a refernce to Gerald Kosky and "To Tell the Truth" as presented in the June, 1978 issue of Apocalypse. Admittedly, the principle goes back farther than that.

I recall seeing this type of simple array as a logic problem in an old math book. This was in high school in the 1980's, but the book was much older. Possibly, somebody more versed in Martin Gardner's work may find an earlier reference.

Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Apr 23, 2005 10:52PM)
Thanks so much, that's already helped me tremendously!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Apr 23, 2005 10:58PM)
What is the truth/lie thing? One version goes back to Rome and before where Athenians were described as "truthtellers" and "Cretans" were the liars, with that "what would the other guy say" answer.
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Apr 23, 2005 11:03PM)
Well, it's in "Psi Series" and "Psychological Subtleties", GEM of a book...

I think your talking about the same principle...you divine who has the artifact by a few brief questions...

If it is from Roman times...let me know more!!!
Message: Posted by: Crossroads Mystic (Apr 24, 2005 12:08PM)
Hey Baba,

That sounds cool. Paper or E-book? Either way put me down for a copy.

Gavin D.
Message: Posted by: ThomasBerger (Apr 24, 2005 05:53PM)
I flicked thru a book in a bookshop about a month ago.
It was called something like "The Ten greatest puzzles and paradoxes".

There were classic problems like the Tower of Hanoi, as well as a
complete chapter on the Liar Paradox.
This goes back a long way.

I suggest you check out a good bookshop,
you should find it there.

Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Apr 24, 2005 09:02PM)
Thanx again for all your help!
boy, I thought that it was odd that the TT still enjoys a level of obscurity, even though it was supposedly developed in the 1800's...I am flabbergasted at the fact that this premise is STILL relatively exclusive to the secrets of the magi, even though it is from antiquity...I guess we can keep good secrets afterall!!
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Apr 24, 2005 10:17PM)
Biss has a version called Crime Stoppers in his book that has some nice touches. I don't think you'll learn any new history but still worth mention for the sake of completion.