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Topic: Numbers vs. Gaffs and Sleights in Mentalism
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 19, 2005 02:34AM)
Hello,

Apologies if this is in the wrong place, but ....

I wonder how others relate to this. Firstly, I love Mentalism. But ..
As much as I try, I'm no good with cards and palming and sleights. I try, I practise, but I cannot do it.

But, I can do maths, as in mental maths. A sort of mental palming and sleight, perhaps ?
So I’m ok with the thoughts for MOABT, or Osterlind’s great BCS, or some Banachek routines – others too,
So I don’t feel a failure because my hands ‘won’t work’ because I counter it with my mind.

Just a thought ….

Regards,

Piers.
Message: Posted by: migwar (Jun 19, 2005 04:56AM)
Hi piers I envy your mental sleight ability, although I'm new magic only been intereted for 6 months, I loved cards at first but I now love mentalism and routines such as a day for any date I would love to be able to crunch the numbers but don't have the ability. I shall however continue to practise
Message: Posted by: Joshua Quinn (Jun 19, 2005 01:06PM)
Hi Piers,

If you're good with numbers and mathematical concepts, I strongly suggest you check out the writings of Leo Boudreau. Most of his work is based on mathematical ideas, although his effects never look like "math tricks" to the audience -- that is, there are no numbers or calculations involved from their perspective.

He published several books which are now available in e-book form from lybrary.com. He's also a member here, and has generously posted some great routines in the Inner Thoughts section.
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 20, 2005 12:41AM)
Thank You 'Quinn',
Yes, I've been tempted by his 'SkullDuggery' (?) book.
I'll have to buy it !
Regards,
Piers.
Message: Posted by: czero (Jun 20, 2005 02:20PM)
Skullduggery is amazing. Some of the effects in that book look as close to real mindreading as it gets. No billets, slates--in fact, nothing written down at all. My favorite is called "Jigsaw Mentalism." Here is the description of the effect from the book:

"Images that have been irregularly cut like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle are shown. The images are reproduced on the pages of a book. The performer hands the book to a spectator with instructions to select pieces that fit together to form a complete picture. There are many different pictures possible, and the spectator alone knows which pieces he has in mind. Yet the performer, from a distant location, is able to describe the complete picture exactly."

I don't know why Boudreau's books aren't discussed more in this and the Inner Thoughts forum. His thinking is brilliant and original.

--Mike
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 21, 2005 12:44AM)
Indeed.
In fact, I just bought SkullDuggery from Lybrary.com.
I've not really been into ebooks before, but the process was so simple, and quick, which is great, being US based.
( And Christ Wasshuber was really helpful with my queries ).
Now I'm looking forward to going through the maths, and I'm very happy to have my brain stetched to achieve better mentalism.
Best,
Piers.
Message: Posted by: magicgetsgirls (Jun 22, 2005 01:43PM)
Piers,
You should read some stuff by Harry Lorraine. Aside from knowing a few mathematical principles, he is legendary in regards to memory work.
Hope that helps. If not, ignore it!
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 22, 2005 02:04PM)
It helps, indeed ! Thank you.
I assume you mean things like : Apocalypse?
I'll have to do some digging now ... !
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Jun 22, 2005 03:40PM)
Re: SkullDuggery - Some of the Leo’s tricks are simpler than others. I found that a prompter is definitely required for some effects. Most of the tricks rely on the same principal. Occasionally a spectator will have a general idea that the principal is somehow being used and will attempt to foil the trick . . . and they can do this without really understanding the trick. This happened to me with a couple of my more difficult relatives. Oh well.
Message: Posted by: czero (Jun 22, 2005 04:01PM)
[quote]
On 2005-06-22 16:40, ElliottB wrote:
Re: SkullDuggery - Some of the Leo’s tricks are simpler than others. I found that a prompter is definitely required for some effects. Most of the tricks rely on the same principal. Occasionally a spectator will have a general idea that the principal is somehow being used and will attempt to foil the trick . . . and they can do this without really understanding the trick. This happened to me with a couple of my more difficult relatives. Oh well.
[/quote]

Well, you don't want to do a whole string of routines involving any single principle, be it a billet s*****, center t***, or what have you. Also, when using Boudreau's techniques, you don't want to be staring intently at your subject. Quick glimpses are all it takes, and they can be disguised under larger movements and subtle misdirection.

Believe it or not, it's not all that hard to dispense with crib sheets altogether if you've mastered the mnemonic techniques taught by Harry Lorayne and other memory experts. The peg system and the phonetic alphabet make remembering masses of large numbers a piece of cake.

--Mike
Message: Posted by: magicgetsgirls (Jun 22, 2005 05:36PM)
Piers, Harry Loraine also has books dedicated to nothing but memory...I've read one of these and it's amazing. Combine that with your ability to compute math equations and I'm sure you could come up with some crazy ideas. Talk to Czero as well, it sounds like he's already knowledgeable on the subject as well.

Regards,

-Peter

P.S. look up Martin Gardner too!

Sorry, I forgot to specify...Martin Gardner has written a lot of books, but there was one in specific I remember reading which has magic and mental effects basically only using mathematics. If I remember the title I'll pm you.
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 23, 2005 12:49AM)
Thanks, Peter and Mike.

I think a combination of the principles could produce something really special.

Can you recommend any particular titles ( that I can search on ), by Harry or Martin ?

Regards, Piers.
Message: Posted by: czero (Jun 23, 2005 06:38AM)
Hi, Piers

Martin Gardner's got so many books out--on so many subjects, not just mathematics. He's unbelievably prolific. He is to mathematics what Carl Sagan was to astronomy, a brilliant thinker and popularizer of what many consider to be a somewhat esoteric subject. I'm ashamed to admit I've only got two of his works myself. I think the one that Peter may be thinking of is Mathematics, Magic and Mystery.

The Harry Lorayne book that I learned from at a very young age is called simply The Memory Book. He coauthored it with former pro basketball player and fellow mnemonics expert Jerry Lucas. It's still in print. The techniques taught in there are ones that have served me well throughout my life. I can't recommend it highly enough.

You can learn these techniques for free from many online sources such as the Be a Genius website by the Café's own Scott Cram or the Mentat Wiki site, but the book is still great to have for the insights and anecdotes offered by the authors in addition to the techniques themselves.

http://members.cox.net/beagenius/main.html
http://www.ludism.org/mentat/

--Mike
Message: Posted by: KN_Magic (Jun 23, 2005 07:19AM)
Karl Fulves Self Working Number Magic has lots of ideas that you could use if you're good at number crunching, although the effects could seem like number magic if poorly presented. A lot of the effects he describes are either influenced by or created by Martin Gardner.

Kevin.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 23, 2005 09:00PM)
Look up Master Mentality by Schatz. This would be right up your alley.
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 24, 2005 12:28AM)
Thank you !
Piers.