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Topic: What type of Manipulation Cards to buy
Message: Posted by: Magicboy41772 (Oct 20, 2002 10:43AM)
Hey, I was wondering if anybody had any advice on what type of manipulation cards to buy. Also I want to know if anybody has ever bought any type of gimmick to help you hold more cards at one time. If so, please tell me what you thought of them and if they are worth buying.
Message: Posted by: FCpreacher (Oct 20, 2002 10:33PM)
Murphy's manipulation cards are great!
Message: Posted by: aznviet6uy (Oct 21, 2002 01:16AM)
First of all, I think that gimmicked devices other than gimmicked cards themselves are the easy way out. Second, if you practice with regular Bee cards, you'll be able to hold a lot of cards. If you know how to load and steal, then you don't need anything gimmicked to help you hold. I suggest you get McBride's tape # 2. This will help you out, and you won't have to purchase any manipulation cards, but instead make your own.

-Chris
Message: Posted by: jonnyt (Oct 21, 2002 01:29AM)
I find that Murphy's are good to do split fan productions.. I also have Peter Marvey's, which I find are better for single productions. I suppose the biggest drawback is that these cards are quite expensive!
Message: Posted by: Kallak (Oct 21, 2002 01:50AM)
I own a couple decks of the Marvey cards. Haven't actually used them yet, but handled them a little. They seem really nice.

I also have the Nielson cards. I like them, but the only problem I have is that the back design is not really to my liking. It's functional, but not really "pretty".

Kallak
Message: Posted by: Jeb Sherrill (Oct 21, 2002 06:51AM)
I've used Neilson, Murphy's and Marvey's. I think my favourite, all around, are the Murphy cards. You can hold FAR more than you could with regular cards, but as above stated, they are very expensive.

There's nothing wrong with gimmicks, like card catchers, but I find they tend to limit what you can do. Marvey seems to have found a great use for a catcher though, so I'm not saying it can't work in your act. Use whatever looks best and works well for you. Magic is not about what is most difficult, it's about effect.

Sable
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
Message: Posted by: FCpreacher (Oct 21, 2002 04:46PM)
Good call, Sable. Too many times we think of magic from our perspective rather than from the spectators'. What may seem simple or boring to us can absolutely astonish the audience. I'm with you on Murphy's cards also. Where can I get Bee cards? Everywhere I go has Bicycle, Aviator, etc. but no Bees. How much do they generally cost per deck?

FC
Message: Posted by: Jeb Sherrill (Oct 21, 2002 10:40PM)
Good question. I guess it depends on where you live. Here in Texas you can find Bees at Grocery stores, but stores like Wal-mart carry mostly Bicycle and Aviator. You can order them by mail though, from the same guys make them that make Bicycle and most of the others. There should be contact information in the card boxes and of course you can always try the web. I'm sure someone here will know some good sites.

Good luck!

Sable
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

PS Sometimes you can find them cheap, in bulk, from Casinos. They aren't exactly Bee cards, but they're about the same, with a similiar design.
Message: Posted by: Paul Menzel (Oct 21, 2002 11:40PM)
FC,

If you have an Albertsons near you, they may have some Bee decks at times. You [i]might[/i] pay a buck more for Bees than Bikes, but that's still less than you'll spend on manipulation cards. Just be sure to buy several decks if you find them, since they can be difficult to locate!

Paul M.
Message: Posted by: Victor Brisbin (Oct 22, 2002 10:21AM)
If you're headed to Las Vegas, or your regional gaming centers, you can find cancelled Bee decks (retired from games), that are cheap. You can prep the cards for your manipulative purposes, and save lots of cash for other necessities.
Message: Posted by: altoni (Oct 23, 2002 02:16AM)
Lot’s of good advice here. I’ve tried the Murphy's deck in the shop and they’re great, but I couldn’t bring myself to buy them. I like the Bee brand and I still have a few decks of Crusaders left--they're like butter. Bee’s are great, but you really have to break them in. My feeling is, if you’re having trouble with regular decks, buy the Murphy's deck and have fun. At least you won’t get discouraged.
Message: Posted by: Magicboy41772 (Oct 24, 2002 01:36PM)
Thanks for all your help! I think I will buy Murphy's deck and try it out.
- Evan
Message: Posted by: G-Diddy (Oct 25, 2002 12:45AM)
I just got a deck of Murphy's cards.
I like them a lot even though they are expensive.
I think that they are a bit thinner than the Nielson cards I used to use.
Bee's are nice also, but I find it difficult to do multiple fan productions with them because they are thicker.
Message: Posted by: Masilon (Oct 25, 2002 04:16AM)
Victor I have some of those cancelled Bee decks. How could I prepare them for manipulation purposes ? Thanks.

Luca
Message: Posted by: Paulie (Nov 8, 2002 10:06AM)
Cancelled Bee decks?
Message: Posted by: jarzamagic (Nov 12, 2002 11:31AM)
Is it better to use poker size (like Bees) or bridge size (like Norm Nielsens)?

JarZZa :bluebikes:
Message: Posted by: aby9plp (Nov 17, 2002 07:52AM)
Why are Murphy's and Marvey's card bridge size only? After practicing all this time with poker bicycle and now wanting some thinner cards, I searched for Murphy's and Marvey's cards and I just found bridge size. Are bridge size better for manipulation?
Message: Posted by: Paulie (Nov 17, 2002 08:22AM)
I find that they are because they are somewhat smaller and with the type of cards that I use I can back palm quite a few. However the cards I use are only good for single productions and not very good for fan productions....The cards do not want to fan evenly. Do you think fanning powder with help this problem?
Message: Posted by: Jeb Sherrill (Nov 17, 2002 05:14PM)
aby9plp,
Good question. There are some advantages to Bridge size cards when it comes to manipulation, but I'm not sure why ALL manipulation cards seem to be Bridge size. I would prefer a choice myself, but frankly, after practicing for as long as I did with Poker cards, the Bridge size were just as easy (if not a bit easier), so I never complained. There may be some special reason I'm not aware of, and if I ever find out, you guys will be the first to know.


Paulie,
Yes, fanning powder does help. Just make sure to knock off as much as you can after coating them. You can do this by holding one end of the pack tight, and riffling them sharply at the other end, with your thumb. If there's too much left on the cards, they will become pasty when your sweat mixes with the powder, and you'll also make little clouds when you're making productions. Of course, little clouds might look good to lay people (I never thought of it before). If you do it in competition though, magicians will snicker in the back, "haha, got a little too much powder on his cards, eh." Of course they snicker anyway, because that's what magicians in the back do at competitions. :)

Sable
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
Message: Posted by: gtxby33 (Nov 20, 2002 02:33AM)
My grandmother has TONS of cancelled bee decks.... the ones with the hole in them....they are like 1.00 a deck at las vegas...
Message: Posted by: Geoff Weber (Nov 21, 2002 02:16PM)
McBride's cards are poker size.. he sells them on his website
Message: Posted by: Shiftymruzik (Nov 30, 2002 12:50PM)
I can only say with regard to manipulation cards that they are like gloves, on the hands that fit in them , belonging to you, and noone else. I can imagine someone learning McBride's video set with Jumbo-sized playing cards.
The only thing I can say is that as long as you are confortable, do it. It may be a bad idea to purchase an expensive deck of manipulation cards to learn on. Just as it's a bad idea to buy your 16 year old son a Jaguar. The mechanics of the moves vary only slightly with the size and thickness of the card. And so, the cards bend to your will rather than your will bending to the cards.
To the budding manipulator I can only reiterate the support for the writings of Jean Hugard and Arthur Buckly.
:bluebikes:
Message: Posted by: PZFdude (Dec 5, 2002 10:17AM)
Has anybody tried Fox Lake brand cards? They are bridge-sized cards with poker patterns on the back...they are much easier to handle because they are smaller, and the spectators assume that they are poker-sized. :firedevil:
Message: Posted by: MxJoKeR (Dec 5, 2002 09:35PM)
Are decks that you make that much different than the ones you can buy? I'm not sure how you make them so I don't know all the specifics. Would somebody pm me and explain?
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Dec 9, 2002 10:50AM)
Most of the manipulation cards are bridge sized. Poker sized cards look better from the audience" view. I have used the old Steamboat, Hoyle and, other red backed decks for split fan production with success. The thinner cards have the advantage of allowing you to backpalm more but I find other manipulations including card spinning not as easy. The Neilsen flesh color was a good idea but too bad he didn't make them in Poker size. The Marvey cards I wouldn't recommend. I do not use fanning powder on the cards.

The cards I am currently using are red poker size cards called Diamond Back PGC (Professional Gambling Cards)made by Hoyle. They are borderless and seem to hold up to the stresses of card manipulation quite well.
Message: Posted by: wikiro (Dec 11, 2002 12:26PM)
I practice under the hardest conditions with cards. It gets me more ready for any situation that comes my way. Right now I have an old sticky deck of Bee brand cards with the corners cut off to make the mercury production extremely hard. I practice and practice. So now I can get handed a deck from anywhere and just perform.

Ps-the split fans are extremely hard to get with a sticky deck. I think they are impossible so far.
Message: Posted by: Ben Simon (Dec 27, 2002 12:53PM)
[quote]
On 2002-10-21 23:40, Jeb Sherrill wrote:
Good question. I guess it depends on where you live. Here in Texas you can find Bees at Grocery stores, but stores like Wal-mart carry mostly Bicycle and Aviator. You can order them by mail though, from the same guys make them that make Bicycle and most of the others. There should be contact information in the card boxes and of course you can always try the web. I'm sure someone here will know some good sites.

Good luck!

Sable
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

PS Sometimes you can find them cheap, in bulk, from Casinos. They aren't exactly Bee cards, but they're about the same, with a similiar design.
[/quote]

I just found Murphy's online: http://www.magicgeek.com/products/zmurphysmanipulation.html
Message: Posted by: Zauber280 (Dec 31, 2002 07:09PM)
I use Bee cards that I've put through 'heck' with a pencil and a flat surface until they have lost most of their stiffness. It is quite tedious to prepare two or three decks in this manner but it is well worth it in the long run, as the 'air cushioning' on the cards makes them spread smoothly even after many many hours of practice. If you don't have McBride 2, there is also a description of how to prepare normal cards for manipulation in Lewis Ganson's card manipulation book. It's almost the same info. I also keep my cards in a Nielsen card clamp. Some people I've talked to are skeptical as to the usefulness of this device but I can personally say that I can't imagine not having it now. Yes, you could just use woodclamps or something, but the nielsen clamp makes the cards easily transportable.

A note about McBride's so-called manipulation cards...I ordered a few packs of them "just to have" and one pack to play with. The cards are pretty and make a neat collector's item but as manip cards they are junk. They don't spread nicely, they are just as thick as standard cards, and they don't even have pips on all four corners. I like McBride but I can't help think that he put out some cheap card stock with his logo and called them "manipulation" cards so that schmos like myself would buy them.
Message: Posted by: Clarence (Jan 4, 2003 06:05PM)
Hmm.. it depends.

Seriously speaking, I prefer using Bee brand cards for manipulation. It looks prettier from the audiences view because it is Poker size. The only disadvantage is that it is thick. I hope someone will make Poker size manipulation cards with thin or super-thin stock, that will be perfect!

And of course if you practice card manipulations with a regular Bee deck, you will be able to produce much more cards with a thin deck.
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Jan 4, 2003 11:02PM)
Walgreen has the Bee brand decks.

As to what type of cards to use, I personally like the Norm Nielson cards for Cardini single card production and the Bees for split fan productions when I do my shows. I find the Bees hold up alittle better on the split fan. I practice with newly broken in Bee Brand. I like the stiffness for maintaining hand strength.
Message: Posted by: Schaden (Jan 4, 2003 11:21PM)
I like manipulation cards for split fans. They have four pips and look a lot better. I plan to use gloves in my routine so I guess I have to make my own. I get to see the bad points of using bridge size cards. I think they are harder to pivot. I've come up with a card catcher to make the card productions more magical. I am not going to rely on it but it is a helpful thing to break the boring card manipulation routines. If anyone wants the learn about the catcher just pm me.

Lee
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Jan 12, 2003 09:59PM)
I have tried the Murphy Manipulation cards and they are great. I have a deck of the Peter Marvey cards and I think they are pretty lousy. I have a couple of Julianna Chen decks and they are good for manipulation also. Anyone have the JC cards?
Message: Posted by: gtxby33 (Jan 12, 2003 11:33PM)
I have a question. Is it EASY to backpalm a pack of Murphy's cards? I can backpalm 7 unbroken in bicycle cards, so would
I be able to backpalm a deck of murphy's? Also since the cards are so thin it seems like single productions would look bad and that the cards wouldn't spring all the way up when you produce them. I'm kind of skeptical but I want to try some of these cards out because I have been practicing with bicycle cards and want a break!


-max
Message: Posted by: Jeb Sherrill (Jan 13, 2003 01:37AM)
Actually, the Murphy's spring back very well. They are not as springy as regular cards, but then, if you've broken regular cards in for manipulation, they aren't all that springy either. Murphy's seem to be the best balance of thinness and springyness to me. (thinness and springyness, are those even words?)

Sable
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
Message: Posted by: mcatalani (Jan 13, 2003 12:57PM)
<<I be able to backpalm a deck of murphy's?>>

While it's possible, you should evaluate the reason for doing so. If it's for fan production, you can always use much fewer cards and reload if necessary. If you're producing backpalmed singles, then your audience is likely to be braindead by the 15 card produced, so producing more really isn't necessary. Murphys are very good for fan production because of the number of cards which can be backpalmed, but I don't see needing a full deck in backpalm. (Others may disagree.)

I agree with Sable in finding that the Murphy cards have quite a bit of spring, especially considering their really thin stock.

Of course, nothing quite has the spring of a fresh pack of Bee's in new deck order.

Michael
Message: Posted by: Magicboy41772 (Jan 18, 2003 08:22PM)
I have Murphy's cards and like them a lot. I am going to use them in a routine in a talent show at my school. Thanks again for all the advice on which cards to buy!
Message: Posted by: RandyStewart (Jan 18, 2003 08:56PM)
[quote]
On 2002-10-22 00:40, Paul Menzel wrote:
FC,

If you have an Albertsons near you, they may have some Bee decks at times. You [i]might[/i] pay a buck more for Bees than Bikes, but that's still less than you'll spend on manipulation cards. Just be sure to buy several decks if you find them, since they can be difficult to locate!
Paul M.
[/quote]
Paul,

You and I think alike. :)
Ever wonder what the Bee Company thinks of this topic? LOL!

Love those Bees.

Randy Stewart

[quote]
On 2003-01-04 19:05, Clarence wrote:
I hope someone will make Poker size manipulation cards with thin or super-thin stock, that will be perfect!
Clarence, [/quote]
Train your hands as a body builder would.
I glue 5 cards together and practice a PIVOT for ten minutes at a time - a long time if you've tried.
Do that 10 or 15 times a day and you'll find your hand is adaptable.

Master the 5gluecard and you can handle anything!
:)

Randy Stewart
Message: Posted by: Clarence (Jan 19, 2003 12:36PM)
lol yea!

Anyway, i just recieved my Peter Marvey's manipulation cards. They are pretty lousy for it's selling price.

They are much stiffer and the finish kinda sucks. It is not even good for split fan productions. You may get discouraged because of the sniffness of the cards.

Its kinda difficult to backpalm the same thickness as you can with Bee cards.

Although it is stiff and harder to backpalm a thicker amount of Peter Marvey's manipulation cards.. you attually produce alittle more cards with that thinner packet. You will also train your finger muscles much more with this cards i think.

I guess Murphy's manipulation cards is still the best. I like Norm Nielson's deck too.
Message: Posted by: SKILL (Jan 20, 2003 06:33PM)
for me the best is STEAMBOAT
really good for performing :bikes:
Message: Posted by: leefoley3 (Jan 21, 2003 07:32PM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-31 20:09, Zauber280 wrote:
I use Bee cards that I've put through 'heck' with a pencil and a flat surface until they have lost most of their stiffness. It is quite tedious to prepare two or three decks in this manner but it is well worth it in the long run, as the 'air cushioning' on the cards makes them spread smoothly even after many many hours of practice. If you don't have McBride 2, there is also a description of how to prepare normal cards for manipulation in Lewis Ganson's card manipulation book. It's almost the same info. I also keep my cards in a Nielsen card clamp. Some people I've talked to are skeptical as to the usefulness of this device but I can personally say that I can't imagine not having it now. Yes, you could just use woodclamps or something, but the nielsen clamp makes the cards easily transportable.

A note about McBride's so-called manipulation cards...I ordered a few packs of them "just to have" and one pack to play with. The cards are pretty and make a neat collector's item but as manip cards they are junk. They don't spread nicely, they are just as thick as standard cards, and they don't even have pips on all four corners. I like McBride but I can't help think that he put out some cheap card stock with his logo and called them "manipulation" cards so that schmos like myself would buy them.
[/quote] Zauber280 - McBride's manipualtion cards that he sells are the exact ones he uses during performances. I met him in October and watched him perform. I do not have a deck of his cards, but, I do know he uses them throughout his manip. routine. By the way, what brand of cards have you ever seen that had pips on all four corners? I am not being honery, I'm just curious. Sincerely, Lee.
Message: Posted by: Zauber280 (Jan 22, 2003 11:32AM)
I suppose I should say that McBride actually has two kinds of cards for manipulation. He as the older ones and the newer ones. I own both but have only played with the newer ones. (I want to keep the older ones sealed because I'm a dork like that ;) ) I suppose they could be prepared like regular bees and used for manipulation. The card stock isn't terrible, but for something that is sold as a manipulation aide they don't really offer anything over your standard Bees. In any case, I encourage you to try them out. Perhaps there is something that you will find appealing about them. I'm just putting my own experience out there.

My theory is that Jeff probably has a lot of his cards lying around, so he may as well use them as opposed to buying cases of Bees or Steamboats.

As for cards with four pips..this is a feature usually touted by manipulation card brands so that fans look the same in both hands regardless of how they are fanned. It's not a feature that matters a bit to me, but to some it might. Also I should mention that in Europe nearly all playing cards you buy have pips on all four corners, in addition to being what we consider "bridge size." I haven't tried manipulation with European cards but I'll probably give it a go while I'm here.