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Topic: Question for Tamariz stack users
Message: Posted by: kipling100 (Aug 13, 2005 04:08AM)

Can someone give me the procedure from going from new deck order (fournier) to the Tamariz stack (and vice versa)? Please pm me if you can help...I can't afford getting his book right now, but I'd like to practice getting into the stack in the meantime.

Thanks in advance,
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Aug 13, 2005 05:48AM)
Don't you think that's a pretty big secret to ask for???
Message: Posted by: Charlie Justice (Aug 13, 2005 09:12AM)
I'm fairly certain that the only person ethically capable of providing your request would be Juan and I'm not sure if he's a user of this forum.
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Aug 13, 2005 09:50AM)
Sort of reminds me of the "Si Stebbins secret" fiasco that happened a while ago here.
Message: Posted by: ecm mike (Aug 13, 2005 11:55AM)
Actually, I use the mnemonica stack... and find it VERY impractical to go from new deck to mnemonica. I consider myself an advance card guy... but it's just way to much to make an audience sit through, even if you did have a good story to tell while doing it. I simply set the stack. If you'd like to make the deck appear to be in NDO, e mail me and we can chat.

and if it was practical... I wouldn't just hand over Mr. Tamariz's stack for the asking.
Message: Posted by: scorch (Aug 13, 2005 11:59AM)
Since "getting into the stack" is not really a going concern for performance purposes, basically you're asking people to give you the Tamariz stack because you don't want to spend the $50. That is not a very ethical request.
Message: Posted by: Charlie Justice (Aug 13, 2005 12:42PM)
Going from new deck to Mnemonica is actually very practical and not time consuming at all. The venue and atmosphere of the setting has a lot to do with it. It's not 'way too much' to ask certain audiences to 'sit through' a very brief explanation, or 'good story', about how all decks are sealed in the case in a certain order as you are shuffling them. I agree that sometimes this is probably out of the question but sometimes it adds to the mood. I say it's a judgment call.
Message: Posted by: scorch (Aug 13, 2005 01:00PM)

The strength of using a stack absolutely requires that the audience doesn't know or even suspect that it is stacked! I don't care how good a story teller you are or how good your misdirection is. How do you think watching a magician stack a deck for three or four minutes (at best) "adds to the mood" enough to offset the audience's knowledge that the deck is stacked? That seems preposterous.

In any case, it's still one of the weakest pretexts I've ever seen for somebody to ask for exposure of one of card magic's most powerful and sought after secrets. Yeah, like this guy just wants to practice stacking from new deck order in full view of the audience which isn't supposed to know the deck is stacked, but later on he'll pay for the book presumably. How stupid do we all look? He's either got some very poor performance instincts, or he's being unethical.

Buying Mnemonica will be the best $50 that you could ever spend on card magic. Here's how you can "get into the stack:" wait until you can afford the book, and then buy it. Please don't ask us to PM you with the secret. Knowing the stack alone will not unleash its power, nor will it allow you to truly practice the most important techniques. Just save up your money and buy the book when you can. Trust me, it will be very much worth the money and the wait.
Message: Posted by: kipling100 (Aug 13, 2005 02:34PM)
Hey guys,

I'm sorry if I was being unethical. I just wanted a quick way to get into the stack so I can practice getting into it and memorizing before I got the book. Scorch, I actually already know the stack order, but just wanted a convenient way for MYSELF to get into the stack. I didn't realize knowing a stack without buying the book it unethical. Programs like stack view have many stacks listed for educational purposes.

I regret posting the question on this board -- I understand now it was unethical, but I didn't realize it at the time because I wasn't trying to find out a method for an effect rather than just a method to help me practice. But now I realize if the procedure IS one of the most important secrets pertaining the stack, I won't ask for it.

Message: Posted by: scorch (Aug 13, 2005 02:50PM)

Sorry I came off so strongly. It just didn't make sense that if you knew the stack, why you'd need to practice getting into it. It's not something that makes any sense to do in performance, so along with the request for a PM (which is typical of requests for exposure) it just seemed like a rather under-handed way of getting somebody to send you the stack. My apologies if the assumption was incorrect.
Message: Posted by: Charlie Justice (Aug 14, 2005 07:42AM)
On 2005-08-13 14:00, scorch wrote:
...How do you think watching a magician stack a deck for three or four minutes (at best) "adds to the mood" enough to offset the audience's knowledge that the deck is stacked? That seems preposterous....
If it takes you 3 to 4 minutes (your numbers) to stack from NDO, then you are well advised to not do this in front of spectators. I don't discount that the time you've mentioned to do so is your 'at best', but I will tell you that with practice you can cut that down to about 1 minute...and that's not a lot of patter.

While this may seem preposterous to you, Mr. Tamariz would graciously disgree, as do I. Shuffling the cards is not stacking the cards in a spectators mind when done correctly. But then again, I see you're point. It's valid for you, which I respect.
Message: Posted by: budionodarmawan (Aug 14, 2005 11:39AM)
Hi All

One Of the advantage of mnemonica is it can come from new deck order, and it can back to the new deck order. So I just can say Be Patient. Wait for your book, and got practice.
Setting the stack in front of audience is very practical, I can go below 90 secs, although I consider I am not an advance card guy. And Tamariz is one of genius in card field, there must be a reason why he wrote how to stack the card from new deck order.

Best Regards