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Topic: Liability Insurance
Message: Posted by: Jerrine (Aug 27, 2005 08:04PM)
Liability Insurance for the street. Good idea? Waste of money? Not talking about Mall work or Fairs and the like where something organized is happening. You, the street, and folks that get snared. Anybody have it? Ever needed it? Stupid question?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 27, 2005 11:27PM)
I'll answer with a parable.

One night, at the Hebrew Theatre, the M.C. stepped forward during the intermission and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, Morris Cohen, the greatest actor in the history of our theatre, and the man playing the lead in this play, just had a heart attack and died backstage. The play is cancelled. You may collect your money as you leave."

A voice from the balcony said, "GIVE HIM SOME CHICKEN SOUP!"

The MC said, "It won't help. He is dead."

The voice replied "Couldn't hoit!"

So that's it. It can't hurt.
Message: Posted by: bropaul (Aug 31, 2005 01:34AM)
Here is a good lead for some good insurance from the I.B.M.


Good luck and continued success.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 31, 2005 05:11AM)
Never leave home without it, I would say it is a must. Some pitches wont allow you to work with out cover. Covent Garden, Victoria Inner Harbour, shop around you can get good deals. I go through Equity http://www.equity.org.uk/ it is only good for Europe, Bro Paul does sound like a good lead.
Message: Posted by: Jerrine (Aug 31, 2005 07:56AM)
Forget Allstate, your in good hands at The Café!

Thanks for the wise input fellows. From "Couldn't hoit!" to "Never leave home without it, I would say it is a must." I haven't looked at what I.B.M. offers...yet. Again thanks, you guys are very much appreciated.
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Aug 31, 2005 08:06AM)
S.A.M. also offers liability insurance.


Message: Posted by: Ragiv (Aug 31, 2005 12:29PM)
Sorry, new to busking, but is Liability Insurance?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 1, 2005 01:39AM)
The IBM coverage is better than the SAM coverage. You need to examine both policies to understand the difference.


Liability insurance covers damage you may do to someone or something while you are performing. Some venues require it, others don't. But it can save your property.
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Sep 2, 2005 10:07AM)
Clowns of America offers good performance liability insurance to members.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Sep 2, 2005 10:47AM)
Bunch of Clowns.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Sep 3, 2005 04:13AM)
Clowns of America is US$180 a year compared to I.B.M. for US$111 a year. Same coverage. My wife is a face painter and has CofA and I have IBM that's how I know the difference.

Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Sep 3, 2005 07:42PM)
I get mine through the SAM and it has been great for me. I always use it and have a copy of it no matter where I am performing. As others have stated, many places will ask you to present this to them or they simply will not use you for a performance. I just find it is money very well spent.

Not only that, but I use it in my marketing. Why not. It looks good and is a benefit to the prospect that they know you care enough to have full liability coverage.

If you are busking, it is just good to be able to cover yourself in the event something goes wrong.

Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Sep 6, 2005 03:18PM)
Hey Bill
I belong to SAM, and IBM, my policy is with SAM. What is the difference?
Message: Posted by: RWhit (Sep 6, 2005 05:46PM)
Insurance for a busker. If sued ,what would they expect to get-his table? shoes?Don t waste your money.
Message: Posted by: isaacfawlkes (Sep 6, 2005 06:30PM)
On 2005-09-06 18:46, RWhit wrote:
Insurance for a busker. If sued ,what would they expect to get-his table? shoes?Don t waste your money.

This is true if you don't own anything. But most of us own things like cars, houses, computers. If you own it they can take it. Spend the $200 bucks and CYA.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Sep 6, 2005 07:33PM)
I agree, it is best to get the insurance. I carry it and I am glad I do. It is money well spent.

Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Sep 7, 2005 09:02AM)
On 2005-09-02 11:47, Mario Morris wrote:
Bunch of Clowns.
So true, However you (not you, this is only for the U.S.) can join the Clowns instantly from any computer. No auditions, endorsments, waiting period,whatever; and get insurance right away.
Love the vest.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Sep 7, 2005 10:45AM)
I got the clown insurance - if you add IBM dues to their insurance coverage, it works out to be about the same.

What I like about the clowns is that they will print a certificate at no charge ... most malls want a certificate with the name of the mall on it, so this can be a nice plus. I'm not sure which, but either IBM or SAM charges something like $30 for each certificate you request.

Message: Posted by: bropaul (Sep 7, 2005 11:10AM)
Ok... I want a link to the Clown insurance. Anyone got one?
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Sep 9, 2005 01:26PM)
Message: Posted by: MAGICofSeth (Apr 13, 2006 05:32PM)
I have an update for anyone just reading this chain:

Clowns of the US: $190/yr Looks like best coverage...
Offers discount for COAI membership.

Clowns of America (COAI): Not offered any more. (per the rep I called)
Message: Posted by: Big Jeff (Apr 13, 2006 07:07PM)
You have it, but have you ever NEEDED it?
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Apr 13, 2006 09:59PM)
I cant beleive this!!!! I don't say much these days but I tell ya, insurance to work the streets,...first covnet gardens is not the streets!....i wonder if cellini ever had insurance or gazzo....ah you outlaws!....

to tell you guys the truth, I don't have insurance...the places I work don't require it... :) come on, take a chance
Message: Posted by: Chance (Apr 14, 2006 02:51AM)
Someone call?
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 14, 2006 05:16AM)
On 2006-04-13 20:07, Big Jeff wrote:
You have it, but have you ever NEEDED it?

Better to have it and not need it,
than to need it and not have it!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 22, 2006 10:46PM)
I didn't see the request for the difference between the IBM coverage and the SAM coverage.

The SAM coverage limit is for ALL of the members of the SAM total. The IBM limit is per incident.

So, assuming that the SAM limit is $3,000,000.00 (I don't know the actual limit, I'm just guessing) and there are 30 claims, that means that the average payout will be limited to $100,000.00. Or if there is a big claim at the beginning of the year, there may be nothing left at the end of the year. The IBM claims are independent of each other.
Message: Posted by: Laird (Apr 26, 2006 02:14AM)
Granted I haven't been at this as long some people. I don't use pyro, blades, or whatever else could be of danger. I have to ask, has anyone heard of anyone being sued???
I'm not trying to contradict the wisdom of insurance, but what possible risks am I subjecting to the public? I'll insure the toes of my great grandchildren, but what are the examples of litigiousness? And would it cover any injury to me?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 7, 2006 01:14AM)
This happened to a friend of mine who works fairs and festivals all over the country. He did not have liability insurance when it happened, but one of the magic clubs he belonged to helped him with the case anyway. I don't recall which one it was, but that doesn't matter.

He was working at the Children's Museum in Houston. He had forgotten to put water into one of his props, so he asked one of the employees of the Museum to fill it for him. On the way back from filling it, the employee spilled a bit of water on the floor. A lady slipped and fell, claiming she had injured her arm. So she sued the museum. The museum pulled out the contract they had with my friend, and there it was -- any liability for damages caused by the act were the responsibility of the performer. Even though it was their employee, it was the magician's act that had caused it.

At first, the fellow ran around like a chicken with his head cut off. I told him to get an attorney. He got one through one of the clubs. Now this is where it gets interesting. The attorney did some research and found that this litigant had sued all sorts of places for similar "accidents." The judge threw the case out of court. My friend had to pay his attorney, but that was all.

He could have lost his house, his car, his truck ....

Now he has insurance.

If you plan to work at any mall in the US, you'd better have insurance.
Message: Posted by: Laird (May 7, 2006 01:31AM)
Ask a kid living in Houston, I routinely went to the Museum of Natural History and Herman Park and Zoo. I get your point. It could happen anywhere, anytime. That's a lot of hat just to work the street safely.
Message: Posted by: Lee Darrow (May 21, 2006 11:55PM)
On 2005-09-06 18:46, RWhit wrote:
Insurance for a busker. If sued ,what would they expect to get-his table? shoes?Don t waste your money.

As an insurance guy in my slow seasons (though I don't do liability insurance) I can answer this one - they can attach ANYTHING you have NOW and WILL MAKE IN THE FUTURE up to the amount awarded. That means that if you get married and buy a house, the house can be attached as part of the settlement. If you win the lottery for $10,000 and the award of damages was for $50,000, THEY get the WHOLE $10,000 and YOU have to pay the income tax on it, to boot!

You quit magic and get a "real" job. The court can - and usually WILL - attach a portion of your salary which will not endear you to your new employer and may even cost you your new job.

Or you publish a book on magic and get, for instance a $5,000 fee for doing so. The court can attach up to the entire amount because it's a windfall. Usually, they attach a portion of it - a BIG portion, I hasten to add, but they get a slice for the injured party, nonetheless.

You "get discovered" and wind up doing a TV special and get paid $50,000 (which, for a special of your own isn't all that much these days). The plaintiff in your case was awarded $125,000 in injuries in their claim against you. Guess where the bulk of that $50,000 goes? To the plaintiff and the rest of it will probably go to your lawyers who you have to PAY to DEFEND you whenever a claim is made against you in court.

Now does it make more sense?

So, as has been said before - NEVER leave home without it!

Lee Darrow, C.H.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Sep 19, 2006 04:01PM)
I used World Clown Association. I joined, got liability insurance, and also had the client put on the policy. In less than 2 hrs. I had the .pdf waiting for me in my Inbox.

If you need something done quickly, that's a great place to start.


Now to go by my big red shoooooos.
Message: Posted by: mota (Sep 19, 2006 05:25PM)
Lee makes a good point...just because you don't have anything now doesn't mean you won't in the future.

It is the unexpected things that will get you sued. The question, "What could I possibly be sued for?" is unanswerable...you haven't made the mistakes yet.

There is another reason for insurance...the thought that you don't need it because they don't have anything you can take is a very selfish attitude. You have a responsibility to your audience to stand up for any mistakes you make that damage them.

The "I don't have anything they can take" attitude is more fitting for a low-level con man selling home repair scams than a magician.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Sep 19, 2006 05:34PM)
Now that I'm set with this insurance, I do feel much better about this whole thing.
I passed up on a gig a ffew years ago becuase I thought the idea was ridiculous but now I know better.
Message: Posted by: mota (Sep 19, 2006 05:39PM)
I posted above:

...the thought that you don't need it because they don't have anything you can take is a very selfish attitude.

It got backwards (you never know when a mistake might happen). It should read:

...the thought that you don't need it because you don't have anything they can take is a very selfish attitude.
Message: Posted by: Laird (Sep 19, 2006 11:22PM)
I'm sold. I'm certainly reaching a point where my busking has given me leads and referrals for valid jobs.
To me the beauty of busking was no taxes, being captain of my own ship, etc. Call selfish if you choose...............
Message: Posted by: Jerrine (Sep 19, 2006 11:48PM)
I'll bite. What about busking isn't "valid"?