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Topic: Thoughts on coin in the bottle
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Oct 3, 2005 07:24PM)
Some collected ideas for you I have found.

- Whilst it is perfectly acceptable to perform with your own coin and bottle, it becomes a miricle when you say "Hey, can I borrow that bottle? Has any got a coin?"

- If you have the spectator hold the bottle whilst you push the coin through the bottom and want them to be perfectly still say "hold the bottle straight or it might break...and I don't have insurance." They won't move an INCH!

- Check out Sean Taylor's handling where the 'ditch' is done BEFORE the coin is apparently removed. It prevents breakages being visible to the audience.

- If you begin by presenting it is a silly 'bar bet' that will probably have a joke blow off the audience relaxes and doesn't watch you. When the coin is in the bottle their head will explode!

- Whilst you can do coin in bottle with almost ANY bottle, my two favourites are a blue glass mount franklin spring water bottle or a green heinikin bottle.
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Oct 4, 2005 03:55AM)
Always prefered the Heinikin myself. Always good to get the borrowed wet by having it under the bottle at the end when you shake it out so it gives them the still wet and smells like beer effect.

I agree with all your notes. Great stuff. Love this trick. Make sure you don't let them hold it after the coin is inside. They will try and shake it out, or reach inside to touch it.

Having the borrowed coin under the label is great.

make sure to point out that they can inspect the bottle.
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Oct 5, 2005 12:48AM)
I have a nice handling for the removal of the coin if any would like it. PM me for more details
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 5, 2005 04:32AM)
Some performers I know prefer to use a beer bottle that's half full. It just seems more spontaneous when the coin plunks into the remaining beer. You can then demonstrate that the coin can't pass through the neck without saying as much, when you pour out the beer. Also, it gives you a good reason to handle the coin when it does come out, it's wet with beer.

Still too much of a mess, and a waste of good beer, for tablehopping work, but for impressing your buds, this might be the way to go.
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Oct 5, 2005 06:21AM)
Where could I find Sean Taylor's handling I have always had a problem with the shake and ditch.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 5, 2005 06:39AM)
I have found bottles to be far less organic than expected. Things like salk shakers are right on the border of useful.

Anyone doing the thing with a perfume bottle? Wife sends you out to buy more, and you get side tracked with a coin trick.

* bing *

What would it mean if you STARTED with the coin inside the bottle and presented it as a mystery, speaking of ships in bottles and a mysterious guy who would send out such things as gifts?
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Oct 5, 2005 07:07AM)
Johnathan - I like it! One thought that springs to mind is that my favourite type of magic is that in which the pre-conditions of the effect are immediately clear in the audience's mind. E.g. they KNOW the coin is normal and the bottle is untampered with. Since you begin with the coin in the bottle you suggest that something is not quite right from the start. I'm going to give it a try....
Message: Posted by: Tom Wolf (Oct 5, 2005 07:17AM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-05 05:32, Curtis Kam wrote:
Some performers I know prefer to use a beer bottle that's half full. It just seems more spontaneous when the coin plunks into the remaining beer. You can then demonstrate that the coin can't pass through the neck without saying as much, when you pour out the beer. Also, it gives you a good reason to handle the coin when it does come out, it's wet with beer.

Still too much of a mess, and a waste of good beer, for tablehopping work, but for impressing your buds, this might be the way to go.
[/quote]

Hi Curtis,
You just brought back a memory of something that really happened with a beer bottle that still has beer in it for the coin in bottle magic.
A Cincinnati beer salesman, amatuer magician, did the routine while a little drunk.
He borrowed a half full beer bottle from a customer seated at a table, did his routine counting "1,2,3" and at "3" hit the bottle with his half dollar breaking the bottle sending beer and glass all over the table! I am still laughing...

Tom Wolf
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 5, 2005 07:51AM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-05 08:07, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote:...with the coin in the bottle you suggest that something is not quite right from the start. I'm going to give it a try....[/quote]

Thanks Nicholas. To me, the idea hit just as I was typing that post and I put in the * bing * to mark the moment. David Roth has a take on the effect where to get the coin out he does something magical with the bottle. Done twice, this might be a workable routine as it takes one mystery and replaces it with a bigger mystery, and then returns the situation to the first mystery.

Please do let us know how the thing works for you. It may make sense to switch the thing out and have a deck of cards in there at the end.

Any "credit to jt" is simply that I suggested exploring the trick done inside out as a display of a mystery as opposed to offering the thing as the travails of a coin.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Oct 5, 2005 09:17AM)
NO FOLDING.......... THas right you heard it no folding coin
The will be an effect soon to be marketed a singed coin half or silver dollar
is thrown into empty beer bottle . rhe coin penetrates the beer bottle //
the only way to retreve the coin is to break the bottle ..
and yes you heard me no folding coin........
stay tuned .....
vinny
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Oct 5, 2005 10:44AM)
From an "organic" standpoint, I prefer bottle cap in bottle over coin in bottle (I've performed both extensively), and developed a method where it appears that the bottle cap is signed. The bottle is intact and given to the spectator as a souvenir which serves as a strong advertisement given the nature of the unusual object and the nature of the "signature." Does this mean that bottle cap in bottle is better than coin in bottle? No, it just means that at this point, it's better for me.
Message: Posted by: info2victor (Oct 5, 2005 11:03AM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-05 10:17, vinsmagic wrote:
NO FOLDING.......... THas right you heard it no folding coin
The will be an effect soon to be marketed a singed coin half or silver dollar
is thrown into empty beer bottle . rhe coin penetrates the beer bottle //
the only way to retreve the coin is to break the bottle ..
and yes you heard me no folding coin........
stay tuned .....
vinny
[/quote]

wow... that's very attractive... looking forward to that.

Recently I've been thinking of just using a striking vanish. If I put the focus at the bottom of the bottle, this would probably do. But what's troubling me is how can I put the extra coin in beforehand, and hide it from view (especially when I'm tapping the coin outside).

Any suggestion is welcomed~
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 5, 2005 11:18AM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-05 12:03, info2victor wrote:...Recently I've been thinking of just using a striking vanish. ...[/quote]

David Williamson and others have been there and done that. The alert student was expected to have gotten that idea when the dime and perrier bottle trick was shown around back in the 1980s. To do the thing as published, you hold the bottle by the neck kind of like a club. When you grip the bottle it's pretty direct to add in the gimick.
Message: Posted by: info2victor (Oct 5, 2005 11:44AM)
Thanks Jonathan.

I guess this idea should have been there for a long time. Anyway this idea just flashed acrossed my mind when I was watching a trick using a nickel and the cellophane of a card box.

What I wanted to achieve is to have a non-gimmicked coin in bottle effect. I understand this will not create the impossiblilty of seeing a coin with a size larger than the diameter of the bottle. Instead the magical part now lies on its penentration through the bottom of the bottle.

You know the striking part involves some up-and-down motion, so if the extra coin just stays in the bottle it will make noise. That's what I want to avoid.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 5, 2005 11:52AM)
Um... the coin can go in almost during the move. Please check the sources for the trick. These are open threads and we are not supposed to get into details on sleights or gaffs here. The trick is in print in a few sources. Crossing the hanlding done with the dime with the standard/classic coin in bottle handling is not so strange once you learn the striking vanish.
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 5, 2005 03:59PM)
RE: Striking a coin into a bottle, see Michael Weber's "Lifesavers" and/or "the Collected Richard's Almanac".

Reputedly, one can even do this with the cap on the bottle.

The adaptation of this approach to a coin larger than a dime is discussed by Michael Ammar in his work on this plot in The Big Green Book and his description of John Carney's "Le Perrier".
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Oct 5, 2005 04:08PM)
Hey Vinny, How can you do this without a folding coin??? I know Mickey comes up with some great stuff but throwing the coin right through the bottle, a real coin??? Tell me more about this effect. Seems quite different from the regular ways this is done. NO FOLDING COIN???? How???
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 5, 2005 04:57PM)
Here's a new must have item for coin-in-bottle workers...

[url=http://www.packsaddleleather.com/stubby-holster-eng.htm]Leather Bottle Holster[/url]



I'm not really serious but I saw the image and thought some would appreciate it.
Frank
Message: Posted by: info2victor (Oct 6, 2005 02:58AM)
Thanks Jonathan.

And Curtis, ha, luckily that I have Michael Weber's "Lifesavers"~ Perhaps I've read it but forgot about it's from this book... will read it again when I get back home.

Well... the Leather Bottle Holster... looks like wild west gun holster to me~~
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 6, 2005 03:01AM)
Frank Starsini, fastest drunk in the West...
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Oct 6, 2005 04:16AM)
Osterlind has had a signed coin in the bottle out for a while now. No folding coin.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Oct 6, 2005 11:12AM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-06 04:01, Curtis Kam wrote:
Frank Starsini, fastest drunk in the West...
[/quote]

Shots at lightening speed.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Oct 6, 2005 12:28PM)
This coin effect I am talking about uses the spectators bottle
and spectators coin..
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Oct 7, 2005 10:50AM)
WOW, would love to see how that's possible.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 7, 2005 11:15AM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-06 13:28, vinsmagic wrote:
This coin effect I am talking about uses the spectators bottle
and spectators coin.. [/quote]

When specifically is this going to be made available? And by who?
Message: Posted by: info2victor (Oct 7, 2005 12:04PM)
Just read the Lifesaver book and located the cap in the bottle trick. Thanks Curtis for pointing that out.

Ha, the coin routine is actually "A true story"...

Anyway I think having some moisture inside the bottle could solve my problem, the moisture could adhere my coin to the wall before the trick and will come off by a strong shake...
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (Oct 7, 2005 12:05PM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-05 17:57, Frank Starsini wrote:
Here's a new must have item for coin-in-bottle workers...

[url=http://www.packsaddleleather.com/stubby-holster-eng.htm]Leather Bottle Holster[/url]


[/quote]


Saw "Tequila Sheila" using these in Phoenix, a few years ago, with matching shotglass bandoliers.

"One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor!"

Cheers! ;)
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Oct 7, 2005 02:52PM)
Frank - that holster may have some application to Bob Read type handlings.

Mars on the Café has a no gaff coin in bottle handling. I'll bet he even forgot about it till I mentioned it just now.

The dime in bottle works okay. Kind of have to keep doing it a lot to keep it going. I played with doing that with a cork in the bottle. Worked okay and I had some small wine bottles to use hence the cork. Play a bit and you see how that would work.

And lets not forget Jennings Coin and Beer Can in this discussion.

~ Dan
Message: Posted by: Ronnie Ramin (Oct 7, 2005 11:46PM)
[quote]
Mars on the Café has a no gaff coin in bottle handling. I'll bet he even forgot about it till I mentioned it just now.

~ Dan
[/quote]
Yeah I hadn't done that routine since I started using the scope bottle routine. I liked the ease in which the props can be carried and the visual removal at the end. For my no gimmick, normal bottle routine, I always used a small Perrier bottle. I need to video that and put up a clip I guess.

Ronnie
Message: Posted by: wsduncan (Oct 8, 2005 01:14AM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-05 07:39, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Anyone doing the thing with a perfume bottle? Wife sends you out to buy more, and you get side tracked with a coin trick.
[/quote]

John Bannon published a wonderful routien using an empty and cleaned fingernail polish bottle. The quarter was loaded in the manner of Ammar's.

A nice touch is that the bottle had a burnt match in it which supposedly had burned all the air, creating a vacum in the bottle. When the coin appears inside the bottle it is "under" the match, misdireting from the method.

And the entire setup fits in your pants pocket...
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Oct 8, 2005 01:16AM)
Which book was this published in if you don't mind me asking.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 8, 2005 01:19AM)
Either smoke and mirrors or Impossibilia.

I believe the routine belongs to Lonnie Chevrie and is on one of his DVDs.

You must contact Lonnie for the correct props or it will create frustration.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Oct 8, 2005 07:00AM)
The effect, which Bannon calls "Vacuum Packed," is published in his book [i]Smoke and Mirrors[/i]. There's interesting info on the history of the effect [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=93886&forum=5]here[/url].
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Oct 8, 2005 08:52AM)
Re my good friend Vinny's statement/premise to release a *method/routine* that allows a *really* borrowed halfdollar or Silverdollar sized coin to enter a *really* borrowed unprepared bottle, I really wonder re what has been stated/mentioned/commented by a couple of ppl here that should know better :)

Let me once again make one of my -by many- much hated statements, done and made before a such release even is out.. :)

[b]It is NOT possible in any way to get a really borrowed unprepared halfdollarsized coin in a f.ex. really borrowed unprepared beerbottle or Champagne-or vinbottle, under performance conditions, thus duplicating the classical handling ! [/b]

(It is though possible to get a Silverdollar inside a beerbottle or deslike when having access to the maker of those bottles.)

There ARE certain limits to what is possible and what isn't..where is your logical thinking and magical education??

To duplicate the classic *Coin in Bottle* under the premises mentioned is simply not possible..soo... :goof:
If it was possible, we could also do and demonstrate real Psycho/Telekinesis and get in contact with Harry Houdini.
Message: Posted by: Tom Wolf (Oct 8, 2005 11:07AM)
Or one could contact Randi and collect a tidy sum of money for doing the impossible.
Message: Posted by: Ronnie Ramin (Oct 15, 2005 05:04PM)
[quote]
On 2005-10-08 09:52, Werner G. Seitz wrote:
[b]It is NOT possible in any way to get a really borrowed unprepared halfdollarsized coin in a f.ex. really borrowed unprepared beerbottle or Champagne-or vinbottle, under performance conditions, thus duplicating the classical handling ! [/b]




There ARE certain limits to what is possible and what isn't..where is your logical thinking and magical education??

To duplicate the classic *Coin in Bottle* under the premises mentioned is simply not possible..soo... :goof:

[/quote]

Well of course it can't REALLY go in the bottle. Just as the coins don't really go through the table, etc... I can't speak for Vin's method, but my handling looks real good. I guess you could say I "IMPLY" that it's in the bottle, LOL.

I developed my handling after watching Carney's bluff insertion. I worked out a method where you (apparently) see the coin pushed in the bottle from the top, it drops down and rattles around, and is taken out ala "PING".

If you were on the street and did the normal Coin in Bottle, then after the show someone come up and sticks a quarter in your face; you could do this real quick, and it would go over, since they would have already seen it rattling around earlier.

That all being said I do the routine Lonnie Chevrie teaches on his DVD.

By the way Werner, keep posting your routines I thought your Coins Through the Table looked great.

Thanks,
Ronnie