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Topic: Compliment or not?
Message: Posted by: Chris "linkster" Watson (Nov 14, 2005 06:42PM)
I performed some coin magic at a party the other weekend and got some pretty good reactions but at the end one of the guys at the party said..that was pretty cool...I know you can go down the magic shop and buy it for £20 but I still have no idea how you did it.

His sister buys a lot of packet tricks and he had assumed that the slight of hand stuff I'd been doing (One coin/ Spellbound stuff with ordinary English coins that I'd handed out for inspection)was just a bought trick.

I just said thanks at the time and kept quiet...secretly thinking...yeah Bobo's was nearer £10...but the practice time involved..Hmmm! Then I thought...wait a minute that may actually be a compliment! He obviously hadn't seen anything and therefore he could only assume it was trick apparatus! So what do you guy's think compliment? Or shall I stick to self working magic in future ;) .anyone else had similar reactions?
Chris
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Nov 14, 2005 07:01PM)
You say you used ordinary coins and one was inspected? Surely not both for Spellbound?

Anyway. His comment may have meant that he knows there's trick coins but since you used a regular, inspected coin he don't know how [b]you[/b] did it.

If so then it's a compliment.
Just smile. :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Nov 14, 2005 07:45PM)
Looks like you are letting one comment get to you. Just let it go. What you should have done is a trick for the guy. He was only trying to get 'close' to you and relate.

You could have said, "Oh, really, I did not know that the there was such a trick available."

I think this just falls on your insecurties. Let it go!

I once did several coin effects for a trade show, there was a guy who stood there and said, "I seen that before." To every trick, I did. No, it did not make me feel great, inside, but who knows what the guys motive was. Move on and entertain someone else.

This brings to mind, are you presenting your effects, in a manner that is a challenge to the spectator or are you entertaining them. Remember, men like to figure out things and no one likes to be fooled. Just something to think about. Routining is important as well as presentation of the effect.
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (Nov 14, 2005 09:56PM)
Chris, that is what I would call a "left handed" compliment! Which, BTW...is a good thing!!!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Chris "linkster" Watson (Nov 15, 2005 02:18AM)
Wmhegbli

I was several pints too late for thinking too much about routining that night...just wanted to do some stuff where I didn't drop the coin. Oh and don't worry I'm not losing any sleep ;) As for non confrontational...I try to present magic in a light hearted way but there always seem to be occasions especially when magic happens in the magicians hands where people do feel challenged to solve the puzzle...in the context of something like a coin flurry which is essentially what I was doing any thoughts on routining/ patter to soften things a bit?

Jaz
Okay you got me....he only examined one coin and the thing that probably got him was the fact that he had mentioned I should magic up a larger value coin, I was using a 50p peice at the time and had just fished in my pocket for a £2 to perform a spellbound...one spellbound later...job done...I love it when a plan comes together ;)

Cheers Mike
Do yoou find yu get challenged often? If so do you have a way of softening things for the spectator?

Chris
Message: Posted by: Frank Tougas (Nov 15, 2005 08:41AM)
Anytime a spectator tells you even in a back handed manner that they don't know how you did your trick, it is a complement. Mark it on the good side of the "ledger" and move along, there is nothing to see here. ;)

Frank Tougas
Message: Posted by: Dan LeFay (Nov 15, 2005 01:36PM)
You've heard that his sister buys packet tricks. So I assume you were already in a friendly conversation. What's wrong about some little education from your side and talk about magic? About tricks that can be bought, but also, like you showed him, tricks that can not be bought but are sleight of hand. In Strong Magic Darwin has a chapter on "substantive meaning", one of the items being magic itself.
I wholeheartedly agree with him. Layaudiences love hearing about the secret magic world. Of course you do not explain tricks, but you can talk about tricks, illusions, routines etc. Who creates them, if they are for sale, and what it takes to learn such a thing. That there are conventions, secret sessions and world championships. You might change his way of seeing magic as buying tricks in a shop or on the internet.
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (Nov 15, 2005 01:50PM)
Cheers Mike
Do you find you get challenged often? If so do you have a way of softening things for the spectator?


Chris, no...I no longer get challenged other than perhaps the occasional..."are those cards real" type questions. Perhaps it's because when I perform, I find myself as amazed as they are on the things happening...in other words...I'm one of them!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Nov 15, 2005 02:28PM)
I typically get that when performing card effects - they think I use a trick deck. Then, I hand them the deck to shuffle and it blows their minds when I reveal their card. Just let the spectators fool themselves.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 15, 2005 02:41PM)
A brother of a pal of mine came up to me with a coin trick he bought at a local shop and knowing I was into magic he did it for me. It worked because it was mechanical (I think it was Scotch and Soda)... anyway I borrowed the coins and did a few sleights (sleeveing, etc) and fried him.

He said "I didn't know those coins would do that." I told him it wasn't the coins but my magic power.
Message: Posted by: Bill Wells (Nov 15, 2005 07:43PM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-15 14:50, mike gallo wrote:
Perhaps it's because when I perform, I find myself as amazed as they are on the things happening...in other words...I'm one of them!

Mike
[/quote]

Hey Mike -

I know where you can get a couple of videos and/or lecture notes that explain how you do your stuff so you won't be so amazed at what is happening? :bg:

Bill

ps - ...or come the CoinSeminar3 in Vegas and watch the Gallo guy.
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (Nov 15, 2005 08:17PM)
Hey Mike -

I know where you can get a couple of videos and/or lecture notes that explain how you do your stuff so you won't be so amazed at what is happening?
Bill

Hey Bill...do ya think that could help me ;)?

Mike
Message: Posted by: Bill Wells (Nov 17, 2005 01:23PM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-15 21:17, mike gallo wrote:
Hey Mike -

I know where you can get a couple of videos and/or lecture notes that explain how you do your stuff so you won't be so amazed at what is happening?
Bill

Hey Bill...do ya think that could help me ;)?

Mike

[/quote]

Mike -

You asked for it. Here's a start... :bigsmile:

There is a lot of stuff that's not here and I haven't included all the stuff that's been lifted with no credit to Mike Gallo...

Now, you are going to have to figure out how to get in touch with this guy and how much of this stuff he is willing to sell you...I understand he spends a lot of time on the bus, so it might not be easy.

Good Luck!

Bill ;)

Mike Gallo. The Close Up Insider. 1996. Written by Paul Richards

Mike Gallo Issue. Richard’s Almanac. 1984. Written by Richard Kaufman

Presenting Michael Gallo. 2001. Video Tape produced by Randy Wakeman.

Mike Gallo – Premiere Coin Magician – NY Coinmagic Seminar 2004. Video/DVD Produced by Qi Concept Productions.

Mike Gallo Lecture Notes. 1983. Written by Richard Kaufman
Mike Gallo – Siamese Coin Tape Tape/book/gimmick. 1996. Now also available on DVD.

Mike Gallo – Visual Coin Assembly – effect with instructions and gimmick

There are also Gallo routines/moves (performed by others) on:

Early Ammar Volume 2 – World Class Close Up. Video. 1982 Vidonics. Rereleased by L&L Publishing 1999.
Gallo Pitch
Coins Across (two versions)

Early Ammar Volume 3 – A Touch of Magic – Coins. Video. 1982. Vidonics. Rereleased by L&L Publishing 1999.
Coins Through the Table
Coins Across (Two Versions)

Michael Rubinstein. Knockout Coin Magic. Volume 1. Videonics Rereleased by L&L Publishing 2001.
Gallo Pitch (Lou)
Message: Posted by: Don (Nov 17, 2005 03:22PM)
I see it more as a compliment to you since it was done so well,he thought they where fake coins. On the other hand he some what belittled your skill thinking that anyone can buy it and do it. Over all it is a compliment, since he will not be able to duplicate the trick.

Don
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (Nov 17, 2005 11:54PM)
Bill...that is totally amazing...I kid you not...I forgot about half that stuff! Seriously...Thanks for the Memories!!!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Nov 19, 2005 12:46AM)
Many times, when someone performs something flawlessly, I automatically think there was some really easy move that allowed everything to be done, or, there is a gaff. This might be the same thing that that guy was thinking, in which, good job!
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Nov 19, 2005 09:45AM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-14 20:45, wmhegbli wrote:
Looks like you are letting one comment get to you. Just let it go. What you should have done is a trick for the guy. He was only trying to get 'close' to you and relate.

YOu could have said, "Oh, really, I did not know that the there was such a trick available."
[/quote]

That's always been my answer; "What, there's a trick to this? And I've been doing it the hard way all these years!"
Message: Posted by: Chris "linkster" Watson (Nov 19, 2005 01:23PM)
I like the get out of "Oh you mean theres a trick to this" I will be using that next time.

I actually have found the whole thing interesting because I have always enjoyed the challenge of sleight of hand and enjoy learning the hard stuff however it does go to prove that it doen't really matter as long as the spectater sees magic...not a bunch of moves
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (Nov 19, 2005 03:47PM)
I actually have found the whole thing interesting because I have always enjoyed the challenge of sleight of hand and enjoy learning the hard stuff however it does go to prove that it doen't really matter as long as the spectater sees magic...not a bunch of moves

Exactly Chris...it's not what you do...it's what they think you do...MAGIC!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Malcolm Kavalsky (Nov 19, 2005 11:02PM)
I had a similar experience last night. After doing Roth's Winged Silver effect, one of the spectators "exposed" the method, saying that I must be flicking the coins from hand to hand really fast just as I released them.

I wasn't quite sure what to do about this remark, but simply gave him the coins to try. After a few unsuccessful attempts, he kind of gave up and said, "I guess it really takes a lot of practice!"
Message: Posted by: Mediocre the Great (Nov 20, 2005 05:43AM)
I love it when this happens.

On occasions when people make reference to trick decks or coins, (assuming that must be the way I do it) I tell them I'm way to CHEAP to buy a trick in a magic shop and that all my magic is done with ordinary objects. I then borrow cards, coins , finger ring, rubber bands, or some other object and prove my point.

By the way, It may sound like I'm putting the audinece down, but I try not to do this is a condensending way. I just point out that the kind of magic I enjoy involves ordinary objects. - after they've bought the concept, out come the gaffs! They're even more amazed now.
Message: Posted by: cataquet (Nov 21, 2005 05:49PM)
Be careful about analyzing spectator's comments. If across several performances spectators are making the same comment, then there is probably something wrong with your presentation. For example, if they consistently mention that you are using gimmicked coins, then (whether or not you're using gimmicked coins) you are handling your coins incorrectly or inconsistently. (I hesitate to say un-naturally in Mike Gallo's presence ;) ). Under these circumstances, you need to correct your handling and/or adjust your presentation. For example, I have seen many newbies handle their sh**ls like they were made of aluminum foil, so I could see how the audience might suspect that there was something out of the ordinary. If, on the other hand, the comment is a one off (as this one seems to be), then just make a note of it, but don't take it to heart.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Nov 21, 2005 06:04PM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-14 19:42, Chris "linkster" Watson wrote...yeah Bobo's was nearer £10...but the practice time involved..Hmmm! Then I thought...wait a minute that may actually be a compliment! ...[/quote]

Enjoy the TWO compliments. One that your technique went by un-noticed and the other that he enjoyed your performance. Bravo!
Message: Posted by: TexasMagicman (Nov 22, 2005 09:37AM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-20 06:43, Mediocre the Great wrote:

I tell them I'm way to CHEAP to buy a trick in a magic shop and that all my magic is done with ordinary objects.

- after they've bought the concept, out come the gaffs! [/quote]

This is a great philosephy!
Message: Posted by: saranacbo (Dec 4, 2005 03:15PM)
There's not hard-and-fast rule to follow here. Some people seem annoying or prying, but they're just curious. Other people can be a real pain in the prat, and who knows why? Further, there are people who, no matter what you do or how well and gracefully you do it, will just dismiss it. Either they'll say it's up your sleeve or you palmed it (since "palm" is almost the only magic word they know) or they can buy the same thing, and blah blah. I remember once doing gadabout coins for a bunch of friends in a bar and when I was done, one woman (who was ticked off she couldn't figure it out) said somewhat angrily," You cheated!"

And how else?

At this point, I just try to focus on the people who enjoy my magic for whatever reason they do. As for people who tend to bug me, I put on a slightly idiotic smile and ignore them.
Message: Posted by: Cory Gallupe (Dec 4, 2005 05:42PM)
I would have said "No, I didn't get these there, I worked on real magic. The kind that you need to practice with because it takes talent."
Message: Posted by: Dave Lewis (Feb 18, 2006 12:48AM)
One of the reasons I like Mark Jenest's "Short Hop" done in its purest form is because you actually start the routine by saying "I just got this trick at the magic shop..." which makes the specs think you really did just buy it and haven't practiced very much. After trying to remember the steps, only to get it wrong a couple of times, the finish has you left with nothing in your hands because you've given up and have decided to practice more before doing it for an audience again.

Finishing with jumbo coins, as mentioned elsewhere in the Café, blows the whole story about how you have just done a trick that didn't go well because you didn't practice it well enough, only to make everything disappear at the end, which can't be done with trick coins! The outcome should have the specs realizing that you aren't as inept as you act, otherwise, you couldn't vanish every coin they've seen in one move at the end.

Introducing big, goofy coins at the end turns an intimate moment at the conclusion of the effect into a clutzy, pie-in-the-face exhibition of absurdity that destroys the whole idea. The compliments you get might be more like "You had me going for a minute. Now I feel like a you're making fun of me and I don't care for it." Whereas, in it's original form, Short Hop keeps the focus on your shortcomings with a surprise at the end, and not on showing the spectator that you are capable of not only leading them down a path but rubbing their faces in the mud at the end of the road.

I may have strayed off topic but the compliments one receives, whether they be backhanded or straightforward, should be accepted graciously. Comments like "For a fat girl you don't sweat much!" or "I've always liked my steaks a little on the burnt side." might sting, but they aren't always meant maliciously.
Message: Posted by: Daegs (Feb 18, 2006 02:27AM)
A tad offtopic but when I was actively working on spellbound(which was quite recently actually), after I had the moves down I just tried my HARDEST to get them to think it was a trick coin.

My thinking was if I can eliminate the possibility of two coins and get them to focus on only a singular object, then it would help in the long run. After I could consistantly get them to accuse me of trick coins(rather than multiple) I started changing it up with a holed coin(east africa my fav) and with a casual inspection...Then after that I worked my hardest on actually making the coin change with another(well this part was just acting and subtext but it definatly changed the way the effect is percieved...) No longer do I get any trick coin comments or even multiple coin comments.... perhaps you should try it yourself.


I think if you want to make sure something doesn't happen, you should learn why things happen and how to avoid them...

So if someone is accusing you of using trick coins, then practice on making them say that, figure out why they are saying that and then once you can force them to that conclusion, you'll know what *not* to do and only leave them with magic as an explanation.
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (May 21, 2006 04:47PM)
Just my quick take . . .

Personally I love being challenged. This can go one of two ways, obviously and depends directly upon your skill as an entertainer. I could go on and on about spec. management, etc; though in the end even the most "managed" spec's can turn out to be a real hassle.

So, you have 2 options.
1. Let them challenge you, HARD, and come out on top.
2. Get scared and bail out, (not recommeded).

Let's talk about 1.

When working with gaff's, I've found one of the most powerful and effective ways to remove any heat is to allow the spec. to handle them as well! HAND THEM whatever it is you're using.

If you don't give it attention or hold it in a special light, neither will they.
I've handed out two-sided coins, Svengali decks, an entire deck (with gaff's) after "A Dream of Aces". I performed "White Bikes" with the spec. handling all the cards themselves, did ring on stick from about 20 feet away (the ring was right there!), handed a woman a Himber Ring, given out my Time Machine, and much, much more. If YOU don't care, neither will they, promised.

Next, after moving along and creating a career with Hypnosis and Mentalism, I would find challenges a lot. The usual, "You can't hypnotize ME!", and that's the very person I would begin with. Confidence goes sooooo far in any area.

When displaying mentalism for TV and radio, I ASKED to be put under the most stringent conditions possible. This is not recommended for everyone, though by suggesting this, one cannot believe how lenient "they" became.

After a Mentalism show, (this RARELY happens anymore), sometimes people would approach me after and ask if they could see "that book" or whatever.

I would simply state that these things were already examined (so no need other than to satisfy your OWN curiosity, "and you know what that did to the cat".)
I would confidently state that everything I use in my demonstrations are completely normal and above board BUT, "IF YOU (or someone you know) ARE A DOCTOR OR SCIENTIST WHO IS WILLING TO PAY ME FOR MY TIME, YOU CAN FREELY EXAMINE BOTH ME AND ANYTHING I USE UNDER YOUR OWN TEST CONDITIONS.

End of story.

Here's a great sleight of mouth line I use in these and other situations outside of magic/mentalism. "Do you really BELIEVE that, or are you just trying to convince yourself?" They will back off immediately.

Also, I have found the best way around being busted for using gaff's or marketed routines is to STAY AWAY FROM THEM! I know this is easier said than done. It is so easy these days to hop online and FIND what someone may have seen you do.
The remedy for this is to do lesser known, underground or self-invented routines.
It's quite the task, though it pays in the end . . . if YOU are the only one with said routine and method, how can you get caught?

I'm no guru, I don't have all the answers, and at the same time I trust this will help in some small way.

Kind regards,
Jerome.