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Topic: Dove pans
Message: Posted by: adrianbent (Nov 17, 2005 02:38PM)
Hi folks,
some advice please? I'd like to purchase a dove pan from Morrisey's in Toronto. I noticed that you can get them in single or double loads. Any comments? It would seem that the double loads would be more versatile (why limit yourself?) But is there a negative or a downside with the double load versions, anyone prefer the the single load ones for whatever reason?
Much thanks.
PS, I posted this question in the kids section because I intend to do the "bake a cake" bit for kids as a closer but if it should be in the stage/props section my apologies.
Message: Posted by: Regan (Nov 17, 2005 03:32PM)
I don't think there is a downside to a double-load dove pan versus a single-load dove pan, except it costs a little more. The difference in price is minimal, and you do have more options with a double-load. If you choose to do so, you can use the double-load pan just like you would use a single load pan, but you will have an added feature should you need it.

Message: Posted by: magicguy67 (Nov 17, 2005 03:40PM)
Why didn't you post this in polly? I like the double loads myself.
Message: Posted by: adrianbent (Nov 17, 2005 03:59PM)
Polly? Oh right, I think you mean the livestock forum. Well it is called a dove-pan I suppose, so I suppose you have a point :) I don't intend to use it with any livestock however.
Message: Posted by: Don (Nov 17, 2005 04:02PM)
Go for the double load pan, that way you have more versatality in the prop if it is ever needed.

Message: Posted by: adrianbent (Nov 17, 2005 05:20PM)
I still can't help but think that double load means half-capacity (for each load). Although we are magicians, illusions are our specialty; sadly we are still bound by the laws of the universe :) I'm thinking that a single load pan offers a FULL load capacity?
Message: Posted by: MikeRaffone (Nov 17, 2005 05:27PM)
Most of the ones sold by dealers don't look like a real pan. Get one that looks as much like a real pan as possible (Viking) then weld on a frying pan handle or pot handles.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Nov 17, 2005 08:23PM)

The first load of a double load dove pan is exactly the same size as a single load dove pan from the same manufacturer.

You normally remove the first production from the pan before you produce the second one. The second load is less than 1/4" shorter than the first. So they are essentially equal. (They nest.)

Now let's get into professional reasons for buying the double load pan even if you are only producing one load. Professionally, there may be times when the "stuff" you originally put into the original empty pan is greater volume than is allowed underneath by the first load pan. Then we use the second load pan ONLY because we need that 1/4" extra below. I have had to do that at trade shows for agricultural products that don't pack! (Corn!) My pans are old RNTs and it works.

Don't even think about it. Buy the double load pans.

That was a very good question! Keep posting!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Regan (Nov 17, 2005 11:10PM)
Bob is exactly right. (As usual, I badly as I hate to admit it.)


Message: Posted by: adrianbent (Nov 18, 2005 01:43PM)
Thanks Bob! Your insight is greatly appreciated. No doubt about it, I will buy the double load then. Thank you also for your encouragment and kind words.:)
All the best,
Message: Posted by: squando (Dec 7, 2005 12:05PM)
This helps me too. Who makes a good pan? Does anyone use chick pans...are there double chick pans?
Message: Posted by: JohnCressman (Dec 7, 2005 12:37PM)
I personally like the double load, for the comedy aspect. You can produce something humorous first, then set down the lid while you display it and throw in some patter.... then pick up the lid (which you just re-loaded) and ask the volunteer to try again.
Message: Posted by: Smoke & Mirrors (Dec 8, 2005 07:50AM)
Here is my routine where you get THREE amazing loads from one empty pan...

(breakaway wand intro stuff here)

I tell them that the Magic Wand I just handed them is a Thought Transmitter and whatever they are thinking of will appear inside this empty pan.

Show the pan empty.

The volunteer will think of something and the audience says the magic word as the child waves the wand and...

Whoa! The pan suddenly got heavy... Ok, let's see what they were thinking of... slowly remove the lid and it's...

a roll of toilet paper??? That's what you were thinking of? (audience laughs)

"No", they shake their head, (now take the heat off of the child) "Wait a minute! He wasn't thinking of this, WHO was thinking of this?"

Several other children WILL raise their hands and likely some adults too. "Oh, you were thinking of this?... Well, STOP IT! We are trying to do a serious magic trick up here!" (laughter as you say this while holding the TP wrong and it unrolls onto the floor)

(the following can be VERY funny if played correctly)
Have child put out hands to hold the loose TP as you manage to accidentally unroll the whole thing and stuff the loose paper all over their arms and hands, head, shoulders, wrapped around them, etc. This must all look accidental.

Eventually you get rid of all the paper and continue...

First production special set-up:
The first load was an idea of mine to have have a strong piece of tape attached to the underside of the FIRST secret load pan. This tape will securely hold 1/2 roll of TP underneath the load pan. It allows for your pan lid to be closed without triggering anything also. Show the pan empty then as you go to close the lid make a sweeping motion that "knocks" the TP off of the tape. It is very easy to do and gives you that "extra" third load capability. Practice your moves in front of a mirror on how to hold the pan lid without exposing the TP.

(the following is a very important sublety that will really SELL the magic)

Put the lid back on the dove pan, then remove it again and show the pan STILL EMPTY. This is accomplished with practice by keeping your thumb up high toward the back of the pan thereby not allowing the secret mechanism to be tripped.

Now close the lid again and let the mechanism trip.

Now again give instructions for the child to think of something and wave the wand...audience magic word...Whoa! The pan just got heavy again...slowly remove the lid and... WOW! It's a BIG bunch of money SPILLING over the edges of the pan!!!
(this is obviously Spring Bills loaded in the first load pan) Wow! is that what you were thinking of? Sometimes they agree they were thinking of this, sometimes not, if not, the audience will claim ownership immediately! (put your pan lid onto the first shelf of your Lefler table...load...bring lid back to top of your table)

a small joke here could be that you pull out your "contract" where it reads that "...all items produced by the magician OR the audience belong solely to the magician...", upon saying that you put the money onto the first shelf of the Lefler table, then go to the top of the table and grab the lid again.

Again close the lid over the top of the pan, remove it and show everything empty. Then close the lid and allow the mechanism to trip.

My last load varies upon age and performance venue details, I have had baby bunnies, candy, cakes and several other items become the last load. For a small show this could even be a closer.

Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Dec 15, 2005 04:44PM)
The dove pan has so many uses until I suspect that the production of doves is the least likely.

An alternative use at a judged event is to set the judges results on fire. Then only the winner remains. "Trial by fire!"

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: cardcaptor (Dec 15, 2005 05:57PM)
You can also use the dove pan after you finish using mouthcoils or streamers, put the used coils/ streamers in the first load of the pan then put some lighter fluid then lit it, then put the second layer then, whala! I think its a more powerful production when you use the pan as a continuation for your routine.

Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Dec 16, 2005 12:40PM)
Oh, get the automatic pan from Morrissey! Just the press of a button and you get instant flames. No tossing in flash paper or a match. Works very well, but it's best when I put a twist of flashpaper inside the ignitor and cover the top with plastic and a rubber band to keep the lighter fluid from evaporating.

Cool, eh?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Dec 20, 2005 02:07AM)
I've been using the single for many years. A few years ago I brought the double, but never use it. I am only interested in the single. Adrianbent, it all depends on what you want to produce.
Message: Posted by: Dr. Solar (Dec 27, 2005 09:10PM)
I've used my antique copper chick pan for so long now. Candy, cupcakes, chocolate coins, even rats as my loads. Come to think of it, I even produced a chick with it last year whenmy brood were chicks. I see pictures of double production pans with two doves flying upward. There are split loads side by side I guess as well as one under the other. The lattar could not possibly produce dove 1 then dove 2.

As far as lighter fluid. My belief is that once something liquid is used, the audience is not supprised since it would be obvious that lighter fluid was the liquid. Duh! When no obvious flamables are thrown in and then fire erupts: walla, magic.

This way nither the home or school room get filled with noxious fumes as well.

I did see and purchase an unlabled fire fluid at the Reno IBM convention yet when I got home the bottle had leaked out and was empty. There was absolutely no chemical residue or fumes.

Anyone know of this fluid? It came from Japan.

Sorry if I'm off track with the thread.

I do prefer the single load but some of this imput has got the old brain going. Thanks
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Dec 27, 2005 11:10PM)
An informed decision should be a better decision. It has to meet your needs. It's your act!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Daniel Faith (Dec 30, 2005 02:25PM)
I think the automatic dove pan is too proppy.
Personally I would rather light the match myself.
It's more real.
Also, I prefer to use a rabbit pan. I find the doves pans too small for my purposes.