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Topic: "Premonition" by Eddie Joseph
Message: Posted by: wulfiesmith (Nov 10, 2002 07:33AM)
not new, but a classic...a must for any card man.

Anyone calls out any card. No force of any kind. You immediately hand them the deck and tell them to go through it and take out the selected card.
They do not find the card in the deck at all...you produce it from your pocket! (or wherever)
A squeaky-clean, no force, no sleight, no gimmick miracle!
Message: Posted by: HuronLow (Nov 10, 2002 07:42AM)
No gimmick? No sleight? If there's no sleight then how can this be done at all? If there is no sleight there's gotta be some kinda gimmick right? Sounds great
Message: Posted by: Amadeus_Magi (Nov 10, 2002 07:46AM)
Hey man! That's sure sounds good. No gimmick and no sleight.... do you mean Ed Marlo's Premonition or what? Where can I find it?
Message: Posted by: wulfiesmith (Nov 10, 2002 08:08AM)
I told you guys it was a top effect...and it is!

The effect is by Eddie Joseph and can be found on numerous web site dealers...

Remember...no gimmicks...no sleights...works 100% every time...anyone names any card...no force of any kind...

This gets em every time!!
Message: Posted by: Paradox (Nov 10, 2002 10:44AM)
The description of PREMONITION is quite accurate. I might add that ordinary cards are used.
Eddie Joseph's PREMONITION came out in the 50s. It's original "inspiration" is Bill McCaffrey's THE PRIZE WINNER in Greater Magic. (The two tricks are virtually identical).
Since then several variations have appeared here & there. George Armstrong had a version, and more recently, Ted Lesley published his version in PARAMIRACLES.
Message: Posted by: Paul (Nov 10, 2002 11:57AM)
The difference between the two effects was primarily in the presentation. Perhaps the last marketed variant on the theme to be marketed was Peter Duffie's "Vanished or Gone" effect (which also appears in his excellent and highly recommended book "Effortless Card Magic.)

In Nelson's "Still More Miracles in Mentalism" J. G. Thompson discusses the effects and suggests what he thinks are improvements and then another variant of his own, "The Little Man".

Paul
Message: Posted by: Joshua Quinn (Nov 10, 2002 12:58PM)
Mark Strivings also has a version, whose name escapes me at the moment. In it, the missing card is found in another deck of a different color. His presentational tips are also very good.

Quinn
Message: Posted by: Alan Jackson (Nov 10, 2002 01:26PM)
I recommend the version called Pro-monition in Ted Lesley's "Paramiracles". If you are interested in mentalsm (even faintly) you must have Ted's book.
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Nov 10, 2002 01:42PM)
Mark Strivings' very strong version is called [i]Challenge Name-A-Card[/i], and can be found in several places (some of which are out of print):

[i]Mental Melange[/i] lecture notes (1996)
[i]To Pay The Price[/i] book (1997)
[i]Psi Sampler[/i] lecture notes (2002)

Mark also sells the effect separately, with the necessary cards. He can be reached at [email]markyapril@aol.com[/email].

... Doug
Message: Posted by: MikeM (Nov 17, 2002 05:46PM)
If you wan't to get hold of Mark Strivings Challenge Name-A-Card your best bet is to buy his book called "to Pay the Price".

Not only will you get various variations of this effect but in addition are variations of two other Commercial Effects "The Stealth Prediction" and "Any Card at any Open Prediction"

MikeM :bikes: :bikes:
Message: Posted by: magiclee (Nov 18, 2002 12:21PM)
Does "Premonition" by Eddie Joseph use a card i***x?

magiclee
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Nov 18, 2002 01:00PM)
MagicLee, No, Joseph’s Premonition does not use the item mentioned. It is far more subtle than that. Although you could put together a Premonition like effect using an i***x.
Message: Posted by: alex keal (Nov 18, 2002 04:07PM)
Premonition is such a good trick, I highly recommend anyone get the Eddie Joseph manuscript, put this together, it does use regular cards, then PM martini and ask what he is using for the closer. For those of you in the know he has cut it in half. That's about all I can say without giving it away, which I don't think we are allowed to do here?
All the Best
Alex
Message: Posted by: MikeM (Nov 23, 2002 06:14PM)
wulfiesmith

If you want to see the basis of this effect look up "Greater Magic" by Hilliard p564 - it's called " The Prize Winner"

MikeM


:bikes: :bikes:
Message: Posted by: Schaden (Nov 23, 2002 08:57PM)
No, i don't really like it. There is way better ways to do this effect. I think this is a little impractical. It isn't that clean. Once, i got it i gave it away. I personaly wouldn't get it. Just my thought.
Message: Posted by: MikeM (Nov 23, 2002 09:50PM)
For an alternative approach I would recommend you get hold of Ted Lesley's Cabaret Mindreading Video there's a nice variation on there entitled Pro-monition.

It's Good


MikeM :bikes: :bikes:
Message: Posted by: Steven Steele (Nov 23, 2002 10:19PM)
I used Premonition years ago and loved it. It was very well received. In fact, much of Eddie Joseph's material is great. I started buying all of his stuff while in high school and college. I used to buy his stuff from Abbott's. They carried the most complete line of all of his items.
Message: Posted by: medaca (Dec 4, 2002 08:28AM)
premonition is great.i used to perform and i got always great reactions
Message: Posted by: HuronLow (Dec 5, 2002 07:58AM)
hahaha.... yeah, i love carrying around fifty two decks in my pocket.... wahahaha
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Dec 5, 2002 09:06AM)
hUrOn,good guess, but not even close! You will not carry 52 decks (or 10 dsecks or 5 decks or...)to perform Premonition.

It is much more subtle and clever than that.
Message: Posted by: Logan (Dec 5, 2002 10:23AM)
I think that upon first reading the mauscript, and seeing HOW MUCH work is involved, one gets easily put off by this effect...but I think that those who put it off will never see the increadible reactions this generates. It's not ALL THAT impractical if you think about it.

Cheers,

Logan
Message: Posted by: Chris A. (Dec 5, 2002 11:25AM)
Bannon has a fairly nifty variation in "Smoke and Mirrors" I believe.
Message: Posted by: Harry R (Dec 6, 2002 02:44AM)
I've found this trick much easier to perform in the colder winter months. Those in the know will know what I mean. My big winter coat doesn't just keep in the warmth. :)
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Dec 7, 2002 10:20PM)
I have a method in which a cased deck is placed on the table. You remove your wallet (which is not bulky AT ALL), and place it on the table. Both are on the table, and are there in FULL view before ANYTHING happens. You tell the spectator that you removed one card from the deck, and put it in your wallet. The spectator then thinks of a card. The spectator removes the deck from the case, and deals the cards one at a time to the table. There are only 51 cards. Their thought of card is missing. You then open your wallet, and remove the card. It is the thought of card.

This has FRIED every single magician AND lay person I have shown it to. It is fast becoming one of my favorite effects. I am going to include this in my forth coming book, The New Mind Control. :devilish:

However, I do not have a title for it. Any suggestions? :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Joshua Quinn (Dec 8, 2002 06:05AM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-07 23:22, dpe666 wrote:
However, I do not have a title for it. Any suggestions? :devilish:
[/quote]

Since the effect sounds like a cross between Premonition and something from Killer Konceptions, how about Pre-Konception?

Quinn
Message: Posted by: mindhunter (Jan 8, 2003 12:21PM)
I regularly perform the "Supreme" version Richard Marks has in his "Mind Warp" book. I usually use the two-deck bridge sets that have contrasting theme or color backs. Also, both decks are side-by-side in the same case for ease of carry. Once made up it is always ready to go!
Funny to get on and read this thread as I was just putting a set together with red and blue Carnival cards for a cruise I'm taking next week. ("Hey, guys, look at what I just picked up in the gift shop") :kewl:
Message: Posted by: Paul (Jan 8, 2003 02:06PM)
[quote]
On 2002-11-10 13:58, Quinn wrote:
Mark Strivings also has a version, whose name escapes me at the moment. In it, the missing card is found in another deck of a different color. His presentational tips are also very good.

Quinn
[/quote]

Repro in England have been selling this in England as "Two Deck Coincidence" for over 20 years.

Recently while re-reading Peter Duffie's "Card Compulsions" I noticed Peter had a reference to the effect there, pointing out the "effect" was mentioned in Hofzinser's Card Conjuring.

Elsewhere on the forum I think there is a reference to Chris Kenworthy's new update on the effect which is being marketed.

Paul.
Message: Posted by: PaulEds (Jan 8, 2003 02:33PM)
The Magic of Eddie Joseph, reprinted by Supreme Magic in 1978 is fast becoming one of my favourite books. Excellent, unusual effects, ingenious methods and interesting presentations.

Yogi's Gaze, where you mysteriously cause a newspaper to burst into flames just by staring at it is incredible.

Are there any other Eddie Joseph books, or has anybody got any further info/biography about him??
Message: Posted by: Paul (Jan 8, 2003 07:30PM)
Lots of Eddie Joseph booklets published by Abbotts. They were working on a combined publication of all these but I'm not sure if anything came of it. Supreme dealt with these in England and Magic Books By Post took over their book stock. Get their web page up and do a search on Joseph, I'm sure you'll find a few titles.

Paul.
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Jan 9, 2003 01:49PM)
No one has mentioned Peter Warlock's "Strangers in Paradise" which uses two decks, someone takes card from the red deck and then deals through the blue deck only to fond that the only card missing is the one they took from the red deck UNTIL they turn it over and discover that it has a blue back too. And yes, both decks are always on the table and you add or take away nothing.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
Message: Posted by: mindhunter (Jan 9, 2003 06:35PM)
Both Richard Mark's and Ted Lesley's versions involve the one card that is missing show up as the stranger in the other deck. Mark's is very easy as no math is involved, only a simple one word mnemonic or you can even leave that out and throw in a bit of business that is just as effective AND get a nice laugh-something rare in most mentaism routines....well worth checking out...
Message: Posted by: MikeM (Jan 9, 2003 08:00PM)
dpe666 - you state:-

"The spectator then thinks of a card. The spectator removes the deck from the case, and deals the cards one at a time to the table. There are only 51 cards. Their thought of card is missing. You then open your wallet, and remove the card. It is the thought of card".

As the above occurs after the cards and wallet have been placed on the table can you state whether the card is thought of without any handling of the deck by you and whether the cards are dealt face up or face down by the spectator during the count.

Your description of the effect seems to omit the relevant as Midflight observed??

MikeM

:bikes: :bikes:
Message: Posted by: Furniture (Dec 10, 2004 05:24PM)
I love this trick. If somebody ask me for only-one-trick mental session I hightly recommend this one. But for me is not practical if you are going to do a long sessions. I like magic with a normal or borrow deck, so if you want to amaze just do a mental force derren brown style. Anyway this tricks fools magician, humans and aliens, so coool!
Message: Posted by: GlenD (Dec 10, 2004 09:20PM)
I agree with Logan, and others about the impact of this effect.
My biggest "problem" is convincing some audience members that the selected card was NOT pre-arranged with the person that named the random card in the first place!
Seriously, the last time I did this, there were a few people that came up to me afterward and were convinced that I had a plant or stooge to assist me.
If you perform it make very very certain that you have no direct influence on the chosen person who will be calling out a thought of card.

GlenD
Message: Posted by: Ted Lesley (Dec 11, 2004 01:08PM)
Hi,
In my version of the trick the thougth of card turns up in my outside jacket pocket and a spectator takes it out himself.
During the whole presentation I never (!)touch the cards. The assisting spectator on stage does everything on its own.
It´s NOT the version sold by Abbott´s or other magic dealers. The Version I use I had bought many years ago at Harry Stanley´s "Unique Magic Studio" in England and it is called "Eddie Joseph`s New Premonition". This is the version I use for very special reasons.
You`ll find out what it is, if you consult my book or the DVD´s.
I assure you, when you do it exactly as I described it, it will create a sensation. In a short while I will put a booklet on the market in which I will describe all touches and bits of business which are not described yet.

Any questions? Feel free to ask!

ESPecially & MAGICally Yours

TED LESLEY
Message: Posted by: shrink (Dec 17, 2004 06:49PM)
I have a version that creates a good impact. I randomly chose three volunteers. I ask them to think of a playing card. I look at each one then ask them to think of another then another. I then look at each person ask one to sit down. I ask the remaining two to go back to card before they had in their mind. Look into their eyes and ask another to sit down. I then ask the remaining person to name the card on their mind....and the rest is the normal preminition..

This realy builds it up and makes it even more impossible..

Shrink
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Dec 17, 2004 10:39PM)
PREMONITION MANUSCRIPT is on sale on the magic Café in this forum ===Books & lecture notes for sale or trade..
Message: Posted by: Matt Watts (Nov 30, 2008 04:32PM)
Premonition does involve one little sleight.
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Jan 19, 2009 11:16PM)
I have been getting mad reactions from this routine lately using Barrie Richardson's approach from Theater Of The Mind.
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Feb 4, 2009 01:33PM)
I performed Eddie Joseph's Premonition last year at one of the large conventions. I took home 2nd place in close-up, I think partly due to this routine. It's strong, and there are a lot of magicians that aren't familiar with it. It's true, there are no sleights involved, but it certainly can't be performed carelessly. As a performer, you'll actually have to use your brain...but not too much. :)
Message: Posted by: Ron Crumley (Feb 6, 2009 10:13AM)
Based on the complexity that Eddie Joseph applied to creating his effects, no doubt if he had lived longer he’d have invented computer programming. Premonition is an example of that depth of his mental application.

I appreciate the feed back from café members who experienced positive reactions in real world performances. However, based on the necessary detailed workings, it’s not an effect for everyone. After the first read through of the print out, I admit I put it aside for a while before deciding if it was “right” for me.

After weighing in the details and, even though it undoubtedly performs as written, I’ve decided not to make the investment. (Also, I don’t always wear the jacket necessary to accomplish the handling)

With positive responses to Eddie Joseph’s Staggered, I’ll continue to perform that minor miracle and leave Premonition for others to enjoy.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 7, 2009 12:30AM)
The description originally posted for Premonition is not entirely accurate. There is a gimmick, of sorts.

I worked out a version of this that required very little mental calculation, showed it to Ted Lesley, and he told me that his method was simpler. In truth, Ted's method was simpler FOR HIM! ;)

After all, Ted memorized the combinations of all the locks in the assisted living facility where he spent his last months. He was a whiz with numbers and rapid calculations.

I won't tip the setup here, but if you have [i]In a Class by Himself[/i] look on page 151.
Message: Posted by: wulfiesmith (Feb 8, 2009 02:07PM)
Hmmm ...
it took me by surprise to see this thread "come to light" again.

People put their "nickle in" and a great debate follows.
Which goes to show, you can't put a good man down ... or a good card effect for that matter.

However. I will say this. For the card man starting out. Or for the mechanic who's missed this school of thought. You will not go wrong to enlighten yourself to the genius behind this effect.

You can go around the world on this tank of gas!
Did they? Will they? You bettcha!!

As a card mechanic for 30 years ... this gets my thumbs up
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Feb 8, 2009 07:38PM)
Check this out!

http://trickshop.com/premonition.html

A very good effect.
Message: Posted by: wulfiesmith (Feb 9, 2009 02:30PM)
Wow Kjellstrom...
I checked the website....that's the item alright and at $4.95 it is a steal.

an absolute MUST ... and you get 2 routines with it ... the intrigue goes on!
Remember, no forcing of any kind. No sleights of any kind. Any card may be chosen.

wulfiesmith
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Feb 10, 2009 10:09AM)
I use a memorized stack for this routine, my own twist. And it works.

I worked on a cruiseship/ferry between sweden and denmark longtime - I did Premonition every single show. It was a good effect for that kind show.
The bartender in the bar in the entertainment room was amazed by that particular routine: Premonition. He told me that he was watching like a hawk but he couldn't see "anything".
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Feb 10, 2009 02:35PM)
It was a very expensive manuscript. I think it sold sold for $5 in the '50's ...equivalent to about $50 today, might even have been $10...and back then you didn't have that much discretionary loot.
Message: Posted by: BroDon (Feb 11, 2009 07:43PM)
No doubt that Premonition is a rock solid killer...

On those occasions that I do mentalism with crads, it's my closer...doesn't get any stronger or simpler!

Br. Don
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Feb 14, 2009 12:13PM)
I did this effect at my cousins 30th birthday some years ago.
Many people in the audience was freaking out by this effect.
Om my god and how the ^^^^ did he do that - FACES !!!
Message: Posted by: marknem7 (Feb 14, 2009 12:59PM)
Thanks, Mats, for pointing out that Trickshop sells the Premonition manuscript. I've just downloaded it and am very pleased to have it. I owned it as a kid in the 1960s, but loaned the instructions to someone and never got them back.
Message: Posted by: Matt Watts (Feb 14, 2009 01:27PM)
It is my favorite mentalism effect so far.It is not for everyone as stated above but it is a go getter.
Message: Posted by: Paul Carnazzo (Aug 30, 2009 01:31PM)
The effect is sold here:

http://www.trickshop.com/premonition.html

but this line in the description I believe is not true:

"At no time does the magician touch the deck."

any feedback??
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Aug 30, 2009 04:52PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-30 14:31, pmc magic wrote:
The effect is sold here:

http://www.trickshop.com/premonition.html

but this line in the description I believe is not true:

"At no time does the magician touch the deck."


any feedback??
[/quote]

Well, once he sets the deck out for use in the effect, he does not need to touch it... Although he will probably touch the deck when the effect is over... Just to put it away...
Pretty good effect overall... It has been a crossroads effect for many years... A lot of different performers have different takes on it... John Born has some interesting variations for example.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Aug 30, 2009 06:26PM)
The best version that holds to the original effect of Eddie Joseph's is Stan Loberstein's "Premonition Outdone" the effect is available from Stoner's Funstores, email Dick Stoner at dickstoner@dickstoner.com , it is not on their web site at http://www.stoners.com It is much easier to perform. The manuscript is available from Abbott's if you want the original. Very stong effect.

Mike'Gordon'Miller was to put together a book of all the Eddie Joseph material he has given to magic magazines, and that Abbott's Magic Co. sells in booklet form. Unfortunately, Gordon has fallen short of his promise and has not been working on the book for 20 years. He is retired now from Abbott's, but says he does not have the time to work on the book.

Being no one knows the name of the Eddie Joseph any longer. I don't think the book will ever be completed. To bad he has some unique ideas.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Aug 30, 2009 07:57PM)
Abbotts carries [url=http://www.magicgettogether.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AM&Product_Code=PBEJ&Category_Code=]Premonition[/url] and also [url=http://www.magicgettogether.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AM&Product_Code=PO1&Category_Code=]Premonition Outdone[/url] ...
Message: Posted by: John C (Aug 31, 2009 06:36AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-30 20:57, joseph wrote:
Abbotts carries [url=http://www.magicgettogether.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AM&Product_Code=PBEJ&Category_Code=]Premonition[/url] and also [url=http://www.magicgettogether.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AM&Product_Code=PO1&Category_Code=]Premonition Outdone[/url] ...
[/quote]

ABBOT's is the "Magic CAPITAL of the World". Do they mean Capitol?
Message: Posted by: John C (Aug 31, 2009 06:40AM)
[quote]
On 2009-02-08 20:38, Kjellstrom wrote:
Check this out!

http://trickshop.com/premonition.html

A very good effect.
[/quote]

Anyone have this version and the Richard Mark version? How do they compare? Same thing? I have the Richard Mark version and it may be good enough.

j
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Sep 11, 2009 09:50AM)
PMC Magic,

The line "At no time does the magician touch the deck" is completely and 100% accurate. I perform this routine. I use 3 spectators in the audience to arrive at a completely random card (color, suit, value). I also use a nerf ball tossed into the audience to locate the first spec. That spec that chooses others to help him/her.

When the card is determined, I throw a cased deck of cards on the table, and they join me on stage. I don't touch the deck again.

1. SPECTATOR takes deck out of case.
2. SPECTATOR then looks through all cards for theirs, and it's not there.
3. SPECTATOR counts cards slowly to find 51 cards.
4. I reach into my pocket, and out comes the selected card!

Strong? Uhh, yeah.
Message: Posted by: Steve Suss (Sep 11, 2009 10:48AM)
I used to combine Premonition with Bob Kings impromptu Brainwave deck. It was a very powerful thought of cards accross effect.

Steve
Message: Posted by: Dave McFarland (Sep 11, 2009 11:12AM)
I have a question about performing this effect: doesn't having the spectator look through the deck then counting 51 cards take a long time. What do you do to keep the performance from losing momentum for those who are watching?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 11, 2009 12:34PM)
Ask all of the owners of crossroads.
Message: Posted by: Sixten (Sep 11, 2009 01:11PM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-11 12:12, Dave McFarland wrote:
I have a question about performing this effect: doesn't having the spectator look through the deck then counting 51 cards take a long time. What do you do to keep the performance from losing momentum for those who are watching?
[/quote]

Hi Dave:

The spec. deals, face up, and counts, verbally, at the same time.
If others are watching, have the spec., with the others, count out loud in unison.
There is an 'important reason' for doing this.

Warmest regards, :)

Sixten
Message: Posted by: Corbett (Sep 11, 2009 02:57PM)
Agreed. Counting the cards, and looking for their card doesn't have to be done separately. You can have them count face up, while looking, as described in an earlier post. There's no worry in having them go through all the cards face up. While they're counting, it's hard for them to concentrate any much else.
Message: Posted by: Dave McFarland (Sep 11, 2009 04:06PM)
Corbett, Sixten

Thanks for the tips

--dave
Message: Posted by: StuartNolan (Sep 13, 2009 05:49AM)
In his version, Premonition Supreme, in Mind Warp Richard Mark mentions previous work by, amongst others, Sandy Andron. Is anyone aware of the work of Sandy Andron by any chance?

s
Message: Posted by: mtoth2008 (Jun 29, 2010 08:15PM)
I feel obligated to keep this important discussion of Eddie Joseph's miracle PREMONITION alive out of respect to one of the great MINDS in card magic.

From a historical prospective let me share the following:

The earliest date I find on PREMONITION (an ABBOTT publication) is 1949.

PREMONITION was later released by the SUPREME MAGIC COMPANY in 1959.

The NEW PREMONITION (an ABBOTT publication) states that the original PREMONITION was published by Abbotts at least 20 years prior placing the NEW PREMONTION birth somewhere around 1970. The NEW PREMONITION that I possess included the original PREMONITION in the manuscript and Eddie Joseph's reasons for re-doing" the effect.

PREMONITION OUTDONE is a two deck effect marketed in the same area of Abbotts cataloges as PREMONITION whose originator was Stan Lobenstern. PREMONITION OUTDONE is 99% identical to TWO DECK COINCIDENCE (Repro Magic) with the differences basically being which color deck one uses first.

ALL of the above effects are terrific and proof to the absolute genius of Eddie Joseph who also developed the BOMBAY principal which allows one to perform absolute miracles with the spectator doing most or all of the handling. As long as this forum exists and I am still vertical I will not allow Eddie Joseph's important contibutions to card magic to be forgotten.

Mike
Message: Posted by: magicgettogether (Jul 2, 2010 06:55AM)
Abbotts still sells the Premonition and Bombay effects. "Premonition Outdone" is currently out of stock (probably because of this thread) but they will make more up in a week or two.

http://www.abbottmagic.com/Abbotts-Premonition-ABBpremonition.htm

http://www.abbottmagic.com/Abbotts-Premonition-Outdone-ABBpremonitioutdn.htm

http://www.abbottmagic.com/Bombay-by-Eddie-Joseph-ABBbomboy.htm

And a very popular book on Cups & Balls by Eddie
http://www.abbottmagic.com/Eddie-Joseph-on-Cups-and-Balls-ABBejcupball.htm
Message: Posted by: brehaut (Jul 2, 2010 01:22PM)
Premonition sounds identical to Crossroads---is it essentially the same method and effect?
Message: Posted by: Michael J (Jul 2, 2010 02:10PM)
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Premonition sounds identical to Crossroads---is it essentially the same method and effect?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Brehaut, No, it's similar in effect but completely different in method. I'd suggest getting crossroads as the effect is very strong.

Michael J
Message: Posted by: brehaut (Jul 2, 2010 02:30PM)
I have Crossroads and it is incredible. It simply frys people and is so clean since you never touch the cards. Since I have had such great results with it I was considering Premonition. Is there an advantage to do both?
Message: Posted by: wulfiesmith (Jul 3, 2010 01:11PM)
Brehaut ...
not wishing to go into too much detail here. But what I can say is ...
using Crossroads, you need more multiple **ts.

So, it boils down to a performers choice.
For what it costs, I recommend the purchase of Premonition to compare products.

I have NO financial interest in Premonition.
Other than say, in my experience as a card mechanic for 30 years, this is the BEST investment I EVER made! A REAL fooler.

Make your judgement and enjoy my friend.
WulfieSmith

Hope this make sense,
Wulfie
Message: Posted by: TrickyRicky (Jul 4, 2010 06:46AM)
[quote]
On 2010-06-29 21:15, mtoth2008 wrote:
I feel obligated to keep this important discussion of Eddie Joseph's miracle PREMONITION alive out of respect to one of the great MINDS in card magic.

From a historical prospective let me share the following:

The earliest date I find on PREMONITION (an ABBOTT publication) is 1949.

PREMONITION was later released by the SUPREME MAGIC COMPANY in 1959.

The NEW PREMONITION (an ABBOTT publication) states that the original PREMONITION was published by Abbotts at least 20 years prior placing the NEW PREMONTION birth somewhere around 1970. The NEW PREMONITION that I possess included the original PREMONITION in the manuscript and Eddie Joseph's reasons for re-doing" the effect.

PREMONITION OUTDONE is a two deck effect marketed in the same area of Abbotts cataloges as PREMONITION whose originator was Stan Lobenstern. PREMONITION OUTDONE is 99% identical to TWO DECK COINCIDENCE (Repro Magic) with the differences basically being which color deck one uses first.

ALL of the above effects are terrific and proof to the absolute genius of Eddie Joseph who also developed the BOMBAY principal which allows one to perform absolute miracles with the spectator doing most or all of the handling. As long as this forum exists and I am still vertical I will not allow Eddie Joseph's important contibutions to card magic to be forgotten.

Mike
[/quote]
Hi Mike.
Eddie Joseph (Premonation)was marketed by Harry Stanley long before Supreme magic.
I bought one from Stanley back in 1958.
Tricky Ricky
Message: Posted by: mtoth2008 (Jul 5, 2010 09:16AM)
Good Morning Tricky Ricky!

As I stated in my post.....I have an Abbotts PREMONITION that dates back to 1949. I dug out all my Eddie Joseph Stuff and found an even earlier copy: "Copyright, 1948, by Abbott's Magic Novelty Co., Colon, Mich." . I believe that this could be the earliest printimg as it does not have the traditional "heavy paper" cover. Instead the cover sheet is the same weight paper as the rest of the manuscript.

Mike
Message: Posted by: jammen (Sep 22, 2010 03:53PM)
I need an indexer of some kind because I simply cannot thumb through a packet of cards. It's a shame after composing the decks.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 26, 2010 04:32AM)
The Stanley edition was published simultaneously with the Abbott's edition. This was a ploy that many of the English authors and publishers used to get past a problem with the US copyright laws of the time which stated that any book or manuscript published in the English language that was not published in the US automatically went into the public domain. Major publishing houses had addresses in the US, Canada and England. Magic companies are small and didn't generally publish world-wide. Instead, they used publishing house addresses of record.

So, Harry Stanley regularly used Abbott's and Tannen's as the publishing houses of record for his material. Eddie was English, and lived for a long time in India. He also published material through Max Andrews (the Vampire Press).

Ted Lesley's presentation "Pro-Monition" is extremely well-suited for the stage, and it gets past some of the problems that the original had.

In Ted's version, the magician never touches the deck at all. Period.

Wulfie, if you haven't read Ted's version of it, don't put it down. I don't actually believe that you have, from what you have said about Eddie Joseph's version.

The reason Ted's version worked so well for him, and other people might find it cumbersome is that Ted could do mathematical miracles without a pencil and paper. His ability to calculate in his head was phenomenal.

The method that I referred to in the Don Alan book was one I gave to Don, and it eliminates any difficult calculations at all.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 28, 2010 06:42PM)
BTW, if anyone wants the system I use for the cards, send me an e-mail. You can find my e-mail address in my profile.

Don't try to send me a PM. I have disabled my private messages.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Nov 8, 2010 09:49PM)
[quote]
On 2010-07-03 14:11, wulfiesmith wrote:
using X you need more multiple **ts.
So, it boils down to a performers choice...
Hope this make sense,
[/quote]

File this under magician jokes. :)
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Nov 8, 2010 09:53PM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-05 08:58, HuronLow wrote:
hahaha.... yeah, I love carrying around fifty two decks in my pocket.... wahahaha
[/quote]

Some engineers at work actually accepted this as an explanation for the "invisible deck" routine.
Message: Posted by: DoctorCognos (Feb 16, 2013 05:51PM)
I have been doing Premonition for a number of years now. I bought the trickshop manuscript, and immediately fried my magician friends. Lay spectators are even better. Properly established in the mind of the spectator this effect leaves them with no options for any rational explanation. I was pleasantly surprised that the handling is much simpler than it would first seem is possible.

The Lesley "version" sounds interesting. And if I think about it too much, I will pick it up to see if it provides me any additional advantages. Do math in my head? Sure. 2 + what = something? Got it! I know what what is. Therefore, 2 + Anything = something!

The Doctor
Message: Posted by: Melies (Apr 10, 2015 08:55PM)
The $4.95 I spent on Premonition was by far the best, most economical investment I've made in my magic (other than "Royal Road," I suppose, and Annemann's "Practical Mental Magic"). It is a knock-out effect, and the misdirection is brilliant. Regarding the card counting, I always have the spectator go through the deck once, hurrying them along (so that they won't notice, well, ahem...). Then, during the actual count, I have the audience count out loud, which gets them into it. By the time they scream "51!" and I do the reveal, they are set to be blown away, and are.

One variation I tried recently was to write "Happy Birthday, Jen!" on the back of every single card (when you have the .PDF, you'll know what I mean). I joke that I was going to get the guest of honor a birthday card, but could only afford this one. Then, REVEAL the face.

Incidentally, I did this a while ago at the IBM Ring and it blew everyone away. Even the full-time professionals in the audience were stumped.
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Apr 27, 2019 09:35PM)
Is it time to resurrect this thread? Trickshop has the Eddie Joseph Trilogy of Premonition, Bombay and Staggered on sale for $6.95. Minds in Collusion is also included.

https://trickshop.com/eddie-joseph-trilogy.html

Phil
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Apr 27, 2019 11:56PM)
Here is my version that I put in my book Lost In Thought:

SWAP
THE WHAT: You take out your wallet and say that you had a premonition of a particular card and you placed that card in your wallet. You open your wallet and take out the one card that is seen in there... it is face down so it is still a mystery card.

You take out a deck of cards and you shuffle them a bit and then spread them face down on the table. You ask one spectator to simply push out any card from the spread and push it towards you.
The spectator pulls out one card and hands it to you so that it stays face down the entire time. You take that card and put it into your wallet to replace the card that was just there.

For the first time you turn the mystery card around... it is the 3 of Clubs. You have the spectator deal the cards face up and count them as he is dealing, but he is to stop when he gets to the 3 of Clubs. He does this and ends up counting 51 cards and never sees a 3 of Clubs.

You say, “I guess the premonition was right”, and you put the mystery 3 of Clubs into the pack. You then open the wallet to check and, sure enough, it was the other 3 of Clubs the spectator gave you.

THE HOW: My friend, Federico Luduena, is in love with the Premonition effect and has researched various combinations and ideas. I decided to throw my hat in the ring... maybe it’s not a very impressive hat, but it gets the job done.
As some have already deduced, the wallet is any switching wallet like a Himber one, and you have a 3 of Clubs inside both compartments of the wallet. The deck is tricked up in a simple manner: take out the 3 of Clubs and put in one duplicate of any other card. I suggest making it a card that won’t stand out like a 2 of diamonds or 5 of Spades.

You are ready to go. Take out the wallet and tell your story. Open the wallet. Either side is fine, but remember which side you just opened. Take out one of the 3 of Clubs and put it face down. Shuffle the deck, but don’t go crazy and do remember where you put the two duplicate cards in the deck. You don’t want to shuffle in a way that when the spectator deals through he suddenly sees two 5 of Spades near each other.

The spectator will pull out any card, it doesn’t matter which one, and gives it to you. Place that card in the empty compartment in the wallet and close it up. Have the spectator deal the cards face up and count. He will now count 51 cards and see no 3 of Clubs. Turn over the mystery card and you’re done. Further prove that it was the right premonition by opening the other side of the wallet and displaying the other 3 of Clubs.

The reset is simple: Take out the card the spectator gave you from the wallet and replace that with the 3 of Clubs that is now in the deck. You are ready to go again. And be sure to check where the two duplicate cards in the deck lie so they are never close to each other in the deck.

By the way, SWAP comes from: Switching Wallet And Premonition.
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Apr 28, 2019 02:51PM)
Hi Greg,

Thanks for your version of a "Premonition" type effect -- it is certainly easier to perform than the Eddie Joseph "Premonition."

The strength of the Eddie Joseph version is, as mentioned, that there is no force. And, as was mentioned previously in this thread, the effect is so strong that one should make certain that the audience knows there is no stooge by having the audience members select who will think of a card.

For other types of premonition effects one can look up
"Premonition Plus" by Howard Worst and Bill Pawson in "The Sphinx" vol.50 no.3 p. 108

And there is an easier reveal using a BW deck described in the New Phoenix
"Two Tips for Premonition" p. 281. An ID could also be used of course.

Phil
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Apr 29, 2019 09:51PM)
I bought the Eddie Joseph Trilogy. Well worth it. Performed Staggered for the Mrs and the first time "out of the gate" the minor miracle occurs! I asked her several times if she wanted to cut again. She did. I said she could cut until she wanted to stop, so she did. She flipped the top card. I was staggered too!

Back to OP, I think I'll present "premonition" at the up-coming magic fellowship this Thursday if I can get enough practice in.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jun 11, 2019 10:54AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, docguitarman wrote:
And, as was mentioned previously in this thread, the effect is so strong that one should make certain that the audience knows there is no stooge by having the audience members select who will think of a card.
[/quote]

That is key! This is my current approach to it. Place a paper sack on the tahle which contains "two items" related to a premonition. The first is a stuffed animal which gets passed three times in the audience. The final person who receives the stuff animal then names a card. Note their surprise when they find out the second item is a deck of cards which is inside of the stuff animal accessible by a zipper. They come on stage with the deck in hand and go through process of finding the card is missing. The card is then taken from the pocket. I think those famiiar with the effect will note the obvious alternative.

The strength of this over original handling is that the spectator is obviously not a stooge as they were randomly determined by the audience itself. Also, the performer never touches the deck during the performance, it is always the spectator who removes the deck. The passing of the stuff animal also adds some fun to the whole process.

If you have an assistant, one fun thing to do is to use jumbo cards. Instead of card being in pocket, it is taken from a large envelope which has been suspended the whole time by a string on stage. Assistant cuts string, and envelope falls on tray which is carried to magician who notes "no-one has touched it this whole time".

I've had a lot of fun with this.
Message: Posted by: wulfiesmith (Jun 21, 2019 03:35PM)
Long live the thread ...
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Jun 22, 2019 06:10AM)
That routine is brilliant, FrankFindley! Thanks for sharing.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Jun 30, 2019 12:55PM)
Https://www.amgmagic.com/product/intuition-with-david-devlin-by-amg-magic/
Message: Posted by: wulfiesmith (Jul 16, 2019 05:00PM)
So pleased this thread has inspired!

wulfie
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jul 17, 2019 06:47PM)
Been playing with a new subtlety which has been working really well for one-on-one performances. I got one of these for free in a Christmas order from Penguin Magic: [url]http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/10110[/url]. So now I am having a deck in the sock in my left jacket pocket with the open end of the card box towards the bottom . Before they reveal their thought up card, I motion and point with my left hand at my left leg about thigh level saying "I have a deck in my pocket-sock". After they name the card I have them remove the deck from my coat saying how I never touched it and how the sock made it impossible for me to access the cards. So not only does it add interest, it adds to the impossility of it. The alternative is equally impossible and interesting.