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Topic: Need insights to help memorize deck faster
Message: Posted by: cormac9 (Dec 9, 2005 12:21AM)
Hi,

I'd like any help that would enable me to memorize a deck faster (I don't want to do anything with the deck- just memorize it).

My technique is as follows:.
Each card is represented by a person and an action.
So for example, if these were the first 3 cards to appear...

Ace clubs ( my friend Lisa)
6 clubs (Serena Williams)
King hearts (Elvis)

...I would visualise Lisa hitting a tennis ball (Serena's action) at Elvis.
By this method there are 18 scenes (actually 17 full scenes(17 x 3cards) plus one final card to remember).

I can reliably memorise a deck is about 3˝ minutes with this method; any faster and recall is patchy. Even though I practice daily, my time isn't improving.

One option might be to make the scenes more complex i.e. 4 positions instead of 3 in the hope that 13 scences might be quicker to encode than 17.3, so e.g. one scene could be:
(A) throwing(B) football. C receiving. D tackling.

...but I'm doubtful about the returns of adding this complexity. I'd prefer to stick with my current method if there was anyway to do it faster!

regards
C
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Dec 9, 2005 12:27AM)
Mnemonics helps a lot.

Get Harry Loranye's book on memory and find the mnemonics for your particular stack.

And I believe what you're doing is called "linking" or something like that and it is in the book.

If you're down to 3.5 minutes. You're well on your way. And much better than myself.
Message: Posted by: GusVanNostrum (Dec 9, 2005 04:01AM)
Cormac9: Don't get Harry Loraynes book. You are already using Dominic O'Briens system, which I think is a big improvement in relation to the 100 year old major-link-system. I would say: More practice.
Message: Posted by: Memory-Jah (Dec 9, 2005 07:06AM)
I never used the art of memorsing a deck. is it like richard osterlind has, where you can tell what cards comes next or which card came before or is it completely different? because if it is the same, you should use osterlinds deck order. it is very logical how he arranged all the cards. nobody can figure it out.
Message: Posted by: sgrossberg (Dec 9, 2005 09:06AM)
C- It does not sound like you're quite using Dominic O'Brien's full technique in that you are leaving out what I consider to be the glue for the whole thing - the "journey" part of the process; namely, having 52 separate places in which to visualize your "persons." For a more complete discussion, take a look at:

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~roy/magictalk-wisdom/discussions/dominic.html

As a sidenote, I don't think you can ever go wrong learning both Harry's and Dominic's techniques. Personally, I use the techniques Harry teaches everyday.

For some of Harry's offerings, take a look at:

http://harrylorayne.com/

Of course there is the booklet, Zufall's Memory Trix from Bernard Zufall that contains an entire chapter on memorizing a deck of cards. You can obtain that at:

http://www.lybrary.com/zufalls-memory-trix-p-58.html

Finally, I know you state you don't want to do anything with the deck but memorize it. While this is a marvelous practice technique, I think you will find once you have a handle on your memorization skills and speed, there are many unbelievable effects you can use that take advantage of your memory talents. If you move in that direction, I suggest you take a look at Scott Cram's "Grey Matters" at:

http://headinside.blogspot.com/

Once there, download his MemoryEffects.pdf file.

Enjoy. - Scott
Message: Posted by: Corey Harris (Dec 9, 2005 09:12AM)
Memory-jah, with a memorized deck you know the exact location of every card in the deck with out haveing to see the card before or after it. With the memorized deck that I use, I know the location of every single card. King of diamonds for example is at the 19th position in the deck, ace a spades is at the 12th position.
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (Dec 9, 2005 09:17AM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-09 05:01, GusVanNostrum wrote:
Cormac9: Don't get Harry Loraynes book. You are already using Dominic O'Briens system, which I think is a big improvement in relation to the 100 year old major-link-system. I would say: More practice.
[/quote]

Sorry, but I have to disagree her. The systems Harry teaches are not 100 years old, but THOUSANDS of years old! There is a REASON they have been around so long! Harry has developed classic systems to the nth degree and they are as MODERN as the latest micro computer. There are books in stores and videos (even better) from his website. If you apply yourself, you can memorize a deck of cards in any order in about 5 minutes.

Richard
Message: Posted by: sjdavison (Dec 9, 2005 09:34AM)
Well, I think the clear way forward is the Memorized Break Through Card System! Still working on it now, very clever, and some great handlings in there too.

Mr Osterlind, I love the mnemonics you do on the new Mind Mysteries - but very annoying, that I can still remember the items the audience came up with and can't forget them!!! I think that shows that mnemonics are incredibly powerful.

Si
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (Dec 9, 2005 01:46PM)
Si,

Other people have commented on that! I think you will find that after doing the routine a number of times, if you just put it out of your mind, the list will disappear in a day!

Richard
Message: Posted by: Mike Baxter (Dec 9, 2005 04:07PM)
True story. Thanks to mnemonics, I can still remember a few of the 20 words our class created for a memory test back in 1959! Many chose (and remembered) the more 'difficult' words such as 'somnambulist' but failed on the deliberately easy word I chose - 'lampshade'.

I guess that I still like to be a contrarian, but nowadays don't ask me what the soccer scores were from last week!
Message: Posted by: williamHerrick (Dec 9, 2005 07:03PM)
I remember reading somewhere that someone "hit a wall" with memorizing the deck; what they did is just speed up their pace to what seemed *too* fast to them by ten or fifteen percent. Though they got very stressed out, somehow under pressure their brain was forced to keep up and they managed to remember the cards, eventually.

In other words, set a certain slightly faster pace then you normally do and don't stray from this pace even if you "think" you won't be able to memorize the card; perhaps your brain will find a way to speed up under the pressure.

--William

PS: I remember that DOC, a professional hustler, was asking for advice on this question on a thread here; his username I think is "unknown419" if you want to search on his name and "memorize deck" etc.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Dec 9, 2005 07:18PM)
I don't see how it's possible to really memorize a deck in 5 minutes. I just don't get it but I'm a beginner at this.
Message: Posted by: GusVanNostrum (Dec 9, 2005 08:22PM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-09 10:17, Richard Osterlind wrote:
Sorry, but I have to disagree her. The systems Harry teaches are not 100 years old, but THOUSANDS of years old! There is a REASON they have been around so long! Harry has developed classic systems to the nth degree and they are as MODERN as the latest micro computer. There are books in stores and videos (even better) from his website. If you apply yourself, you can memorize a deck of cards in any order in about 5 minutes.
[/quote]

I am well aware of that. The ordinal 100 was taken in relation to my just my own books. It may very well be over 1000 years old.

But: My point is: Dominic O'Briens work take this one step further. The original poster was already down under four minutes.

O'Brien doesn't scrap that old system totally, but for long series, and for fast memorization (key point), he wisely recommends a better method.

My opinion is that you must go beyond the old "Major System" and "just peg-link" to ge a decent time under three minutes as the poster wanted.

And thus, they right way is to go with O'Brien, The Journey Method and Zufall.
Message: Posted by: williamHerrick (Dec 9, 2005 10:25PM)
Hi,

Is there any system of memorizing cards that involves assigning letters to the values, like:

two = oo
three = ee
four = oh
five = "eye" sound
six = ih (short i)
seven = eh (short e)
eight = ay (long a)
Nine = n
Ten = t
Jack = j
Queen = d (for Dame)
King = k
Ace = s

The higher values are consonants, the lower value cards are vowels. Then you would have to memorize a word, which might be easier.

"keno-tay-notoo" = king-three-nine-four-ten-eight-nine-ten-two

If you memorized 6 words like "keeno-tay-notoo" you would have the entire deck, with jokers, but values only.

I wondered if there were a system like this?

--William
Message: Posted by: sgrossberg (Dec 10, 2005 12:33AM)
William - Take a look at:

http://members.cox.net/beagenius/main.html

http://www.ludism.org/mentat/

http://headinside.blogspot.com/

http://www.memoryimprovement.org/

Using the vowels and consonants becomes unnecessary when you use these systems.
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Dec 10, 2005 12:46AM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-09 20:18, Frank Starsini wrote:
I don't see how it's possible to really memorize a deck in 5 minutes. I just don't get it but I'm a beginner at this.


[/quote]

Frank, think about how bad you probably were (if you're like the rest of us) with sleights and presentations at first with your magic. If you had to comment on how much you've probably improved over the years, I bet the percentage of improvement would be pretty high. You work hard and you get better

It's the same with memory work. You may not be at the point where you can memorize a deck quickly, but with practice, you could get it down below 5 minutes. I am a beginner too but I see the possibilities...
Message: Posted by: GusVanNostrum (Dec 10, 2005 01:13AM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-09 20:18, Frank Starsini wrote:
I don't see how it's possible to really memorize a deck in 5 minutes. I just don't get it but I'm a beginner at this.
[/quote]

Then take a look at new methods. People who compete in this area are well down below one single minute to remember a newly shuffled deck.


Posted: Dec 10, 2005 2:13am
------------------------------------------------------
And since I've got a couple of angry PM:s, I'd like to clarify: I do have great respect for Harry Loraynes memory work. I've used it for over 25 years.

But for [b]this specific question and problem[/b] (i.e. [b]speed[/b] memorization) my advice is still to go with Dominic O'Brien's "Journey Method". It involves pre-work, and I don't think it is at all suitable if you want to memorize a stack by heart. But for speedy memorization of a shuffled deck, this is the method to use. And the World Champions seems to agree.
Message: Posted by: cormac9 (Dec 14, 2005 12:35AM)
To clarify- yes I am using Dominic's journey system. Each of my 17.3 scenes takes place at a different point in the journey.

Over the past few days I did practice 13 more complex scenes of 4 cards each, but I think I'm better off with 17.3 x 3 cards. Anyway whichever I use I think the method is right- I just have to work at making the images more distinctive.

So e.g. my 3 spades is represented by a particular firey redhead. Now when I memorize this card, I visualize her surrounded by fire (doing the action dictated by the next card (e.g. K spades(beheading someone)). Who she beheads is of course dictated by the 3rd card (e.g. K hearts- Elvis).

Surrounding her by fire means I am less likely to mix her up with one of the other 25 females amongst the cards. Almost all my cards are human- the exeptions being big bird, ET, and the inc hulk. One isn't likely to forget where on the journey these characters have cropped up.

I think this is prob the basic method used by the world record holders in this field- but how they can visualise the scenes so that they can mem the deck in under a minute- well that's the amazing thing.

regards
C
Message: Posted by: Mito (Dec 14, 2005 01:57AM)
Cormac:
I think you should make them LESS complex, and go through the cards faster. Just make a longer journey.
Try using 26 steps of two cards each, using just the subject and the action, not the "object". I've always found the first two elements to "stick" better. It also increases the number of actions they could be doing, since intransitive verbs are okay. (Instead of, "He's eating a rock!", it's, "He's limping!" etc.)
Or, make something in that location on the journey into the object.
The refrigerator is a location on the journey, and the subject interacting with the location itself plants all elements more firmly.
I'm consistently under 3 minutes; my best time is about 2. Hey, apparantly that was the world record 15 years ago!
Now the record is around 30 seconds-- I'm not in the running. Maybe those guys do use the more complex scenes...

Hints:
If you want to memorize a stack to use again in the future, make a journey somewhere and use it only for that stack, nothing else.
Same goes for the Knight's Tour.

Remembering stack position number is no problem when you just remember a few key numbers of the steps along the journey. "The table is the 10th step, the fridge is the 20th step."
"The 21st card? Ah, yes, the stairs..."

I did the Aronson Stack years ago using his mnemonics, and it worked, but it took quite a while.

Dominic O'Brien's method has been around since 477 BC.
http://c1blog.blogspot.com/2005/03/memory-olympiads.html
It takes less time set up your own system (and be set to memorize any sequence---in minutes) than it takes to memorize one stack using the "conventional" method.

[quote]I remember reading somewhere that someone "hit a wall" with memorizing the deck; what they did is just speed up their pace to what seemed *too* fast to them by ten or fifteen percent. Though they got very stressed out, somehow under pressure their brain was forced to keep up and they managed to remember the cards, eventually. [/quote]
Yeah, it's really trial and error. It's difficult to say to yourself as you're going through the cards, "Yeah, I'm going too fast. I'll forget this." until you're finished and try to recall them.

Ever play "Simon" using this system? After I made it to 30 beeps I started to worry about repetitive strain injury---on my brain!

Here's a cool test.
(21772 points)
http://worldmemorychallenge.com/game.html

Neil

p.s. Mr. Osterlind,
Thank you, and come to Japan!
Message: Posted by: MarkFarrar (Dec 30, 2005 08:33PM)
If you want to practise your memorised deck, why not try the online test in the Mnemonics section of my own website ([url]http://www.MarkFarrar.co.uk/[/url])?

And if the stack you want isn't there, let me have the details and I'll create a version for you, if you can't do it yourself.
Message: Posted by: Cesar Munoz (Dec 30, 2005 09:57PM)
When I first got Mneumonica I tried learning the stack according to the program suggested in the book. After a day--I wasn't really making the progress that I had hoped--in all fairness--I wasn't following Juan's suggestions to the letter. I went back and refreshed some memory training I had done previously (i.e. "tree list", "house list" & "body list") and I was then able to memorize Mneumonica in less than an hour. The memory training that I took was through The Memory Training Institue (www.mtilink.com).
Message: Posted by: Unknown419 (Dec 30, 2005 11:10PM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-09 20:03, williamHerrick wrote:
PS: I remember that DOC, a professional hustler, was asking for advice on this question on a thread here; his username I think is "unknown419" if you want to search on his name and "memorize deck" etc.
[/quote]

I'm still here peeking around and getting info. keep the info. coming.

Still Learning

Doc
Message: Posted by: Partizan (Dec 31, 2005 04:23AM)
I use a modified version of SEMM3 and have been for the last 7 years.

In the last 2 years I have been working on using hypnosis to install the basic structure of SEMM3 into a persons mind. The end result being a version of SEMM3 running continuously without effort to encode/decode by the consious mind.

It feels (I can only guess) like photographic memory. Of late I have been able to thumb through a deck 7-10 seconds and hit 95-100% accuracy with all cards at a numbered location.

As an aside, I have also installed a few maths routines via hypnosis and am now feeling the numbers, as my mind calculates a result I feel the value of the result present itself almost as soon as the problem is seen/heard.
Message: Posted by: mattisdx (Dec 31, 2005 08:10AM)
If your going to use a stack, why not try just using the new deck order stack? or something simple like Si Stebbins?
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Dec 31, 2005 09:45AM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-31 09:10, mattisdx wrote:
If your going to use a stack, why not try just using the new deck order stack? or something simple like Si Stebbins?
[/quote]

I can spread a Mnemonica stack face up with no fear what so ever of the stack being spotted - unless if someone knows it or can memorize a deck of cards on the fly. I would not think this would be a good idea with a NDO stack, and although some folks aren't worried about spreading a Stebbins deck face up - and it's not all that risky - I'd prefer not to risk it at all. It's an extra convincer that you can use without verbally drawing attention to the fact the cards aren't stacked.

The method Tamariz describes at the beginning of his book worked better for me than the mnemonics Aronson describes. I have been messing with the Dominic system recently and for the purposes of memorizing a deck on the fly, it seems like a strong way to go. It's a good system for long term memorizing as well, but to me its real strength is the ability to do stuff then and there, under pressure.
Message: Posted by: Cory Gallupe (Dec 31, 2005 10:12AM)
What do you mean by memorizing a deck? Is that when people put each card face down and you say what it is?
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Dec 31, 2005 12:01PM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-31 11:12, themagicman101 wrote:
What do you mean by memorizing a deck? Is that when people put each card face down and you say what it is?
[/quote]

I pm'd you.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Dec 31, 2005 01:22PM)
This thread is just full of miscommunications. People keep jumping in and talking about stacks. The original question had nothing to do with a particular stacked deck, or using memorized stacks to do magic tricks. Cormac9 simply wanted some help in speeding up the process of memorizing a deck of cards. He didn't even state whether this was for doing it as a memory demonstration, in competition, or what.

My feeling is that for this limited purpose, the O'Brien method is the best way to go. Get the COMPLETE method, study it, and practice. I don't think there's much more help... just PRACTICE.

Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: Krumb (Dec 31, 2005 01:43PM)
Funny that this should come up. I am going through today and memorizing the mnemonica stack using Lorayne's phonetic alphabet and peg systems. I had memorized the first half of the deck awhile ago with just a bit of practice. I feel you could sit down and have the deck memorized cold in half a day if you worked really hard.

Any peg system is going to be of infinite more use than a link system when it comes to memorized deck work. You need to be able to recall cards independent of each other instead of running through a list. Lorayne's systems, while being around for a long time and seemingly simple are tried and true.

It never hurts to do memory feats to help strengthen to help with your association. I plan on memorizing the President's, their Vice Presidents, and the terms they served....just as an exercise. You know the saying.....use it or lose it.
Message: Posted by: rrubin98 (Dec 31, 2005 04:53PM)
Btw, for those folks questioning just how fast one could really memorize a deck -- the world record is 35 seconds. I believe it was set by Andi Bell several years ago.
Dominic O'Brien's record for cards is about 49 seconds.

I, on the other hand, have never memorized a pack in less than 3 minutes. :( I like Bob Farmer's card mnemonics the best (which I just link together in one long chain), but the top memorizers in the world use Dominic's system almost exclusively.


Richard
Message: Posted by: Stig (Jan 10, 2006 02:59PM)
In what book is Dominic O'Brien's "Journey Method" explained? I just bought his book "Learn To Remember, but the the method wasn't well explained, only mentioned.

Stig
Message: Posted by: MrRidge (Jan 10, 2006 05:51PM)
Cormac9,
Just out of interest, in what context are you learning to memorise a deck? Is it for demonstration, a card effect, or what, perhaps I should say why?
The only reason I ask is that if it's for a card effect, there are 'shortcuts'. For example, you can memorise the Red/Black order (not the actual cards) of a spectator shuffled deck in about a minute, with only about an hours practise. Have a look at 'Total recall' by Iain Girdwood.
I could of course be missing the point, in which case all the previous posts are much more relevant to your original question.
Message: Posted by: sgrossberg (Jan 10, 2006 06:27PM)
Stig - You might want to take a look at:

http://www.ludism.org/mentat/DominicSystem

http://www.happychild.org.uk/acc/tpr/mem/0399numb.htm

Also, Dominic's CD set "Quantum Memory Power" contains more detail on the system. Enjoy. - Scott
Message: Posted by: magicbob74358 (Jan 10, 2006 07:12PM)
I found that reciting the deck in order over and over again works well. At least it did for me. I used to memory systems, other than to write a number on the back of cards and recite the deck in order, many many times. I'd spend several hours a day just reciting the deck in my head, after I had that down well, I'd test myself with the deck of cards. Find a random card, name the number, pick a number and name the card.... That worked well for me, I know it doesn't work well for others, and there is no 1 system that works for everyone. I hope this helped, it probably didn't..... good luck.
Message: Posted by: Stig (Jan 11, 2006 03:35AM)
Thank you Scott, but the Journey Method and The Dominic System is not the same, is it?

Stig
Message: Posted by: squando (Jan 16, 2006 06:21PM)
Determination, then frequent use to in grain learning. I memorized Aronson deck then switched to Tamariz deck...
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Jan 16, 2006 08:12PM)
This is how I did it. I have 52 items or concepts pre-memorized, one for each number 1-52. Each card is assigned an image that relates to the number. Example: 31 is Halloween, the 10D is remembered as I picture the 10th month and a pumpkin carved with diamond eyes. 11 is tent, that goes with the 4S and I picture the 4 tent stakes as shovels or spades. I made the links and images as funny as I could. The stack I use is not one of the published ones but is similar to the kind Alan Ackerman uses with each card value repeating every 13 cards. That stack also is set to do a chaos type effect like Lennart Green does. This is the only memorized stack I use and it has served me well.
Message: Posted by: pnielan (Aug 3, 2007 11:00AM)
I memorzed Aronson's stack using a combination of ideas in Tamariz's book and Aronson's mnemonics. I did it this way even though I've known Lorayne mnemonic systems for 20 years. But to be honest, the NUMBER to MNEMONIC FOR NUMBER to MNEMONIC FOR CARD to CARD technique seemed too cumbersome to use for all the cards. And not personal enough. So here's what I did.

I got out the tape recorder and sang the Tamariz song. And listened to it as I continued work.

I learned the 1st (JS) and last cards (9D) by rote.

I learned the positions of the 4 aces (6,10,18,22). Then the cards at the 13, 26, 39th positions. All by rote.

After the 1st hour these were locked in.

Next, there are many numbers that have special meanings to me. Everyone will have their own set. To get mine, I sat down with a deck of cards in Aronson order. As I got to each number in the stack, I asked myself if there was a special meaning that came IMMEDIATELY to mind. If not, I didn't force it. For many there were and I noted them (wrote them with a Sharpie) on the face of the card. My list is: 7-my birthday, 13-unlucky, 12-Jim Kelly and Joe Namath, 14-Frank Ryan (a 60's quarterback with a Ph.D), 15-1st girlfriend's birthday, 16-Joe Montana, 18-age of consent, 21-drinking age, 23-Michael Jordan, 24-Willie Mays, 25-Christmas, 27-daughter's birthday, 29-depression, 31-number of days in a month, 32-OJ Simpson (unfortunately), 35-Roulette Wheel, 36 (the start of 36-24-36), 37-1st two numbers of my childhood phone number, 38-my current pant size (unfortunately), 39--World War II, 41-Pearl Harbor, 42-Summer of 42 (a book and movie), 44-Reggie Jackson, 45-a phonograph record, 46-first two numbers of my childhood address, 49--The SF Forty-Niners. My thought here is that these were better than mnemonics and they've proved to be.

For the cards at these numbers, I used the Tamariz technique. I got colored sharpies and drew pictures on the faces of these cards. For example, 35 is the 10C and the pips form a circle in the center and I sketched a roulette wheel. For example 24 is the 3D---too easy; Willie Mays hitting triples on the diamond. For 31-the number of days in a month, I drew a monthly calender with the four corners at each of the pips. The 25th card was the 7H---Christmas and the seven days of Hanukkah--enough to make me remember. With this done, I now knew about half the cards with very little pain.

That was enough for the 1st day.

Now I looked for patterns in the Aronson stack---the fours, Jacks and tens were in the middle set up for the 10-card poker deal. So I learned the rest of the fours, jacks and tens. The benefit of this method is that I started to form a mental picture of the entire deck in my mind, rather than just random card-number pairs. To learn these, I drew pictures of the numbers themselves on the faces of the cards---again as suggested by Tamariz.

That was enough for the 2nd day.

Now I added the rest of the court cards, the Kings and Queens. Noticed that red queens and kings were in the top 30 cards of the stack. Black queens and kings near the bottom.

At this point, I have a set of flash cards with stack numbers on the back and drawings on the faces of many of the cards. I know about 30-35 of the cards and I start using the flash cards (Tamariz-inspired) to lock them in. There are about 20 cards I don't know.

Enough for the 3rd day.

Now it gets harder. I started adding four-of-a-kinds using the Aronson mnemonics if necessary. The remaining twos (I already knew 2D-13 and 2S-41 from above). The remaining threes. I added about 7-8 cards a day and then reviewed the whole stack with the flash cards.

After three more days, I knew the whole stack and no longer needed flash cards to practice. I could do it just in my mind or with a regular deck of cards. But there were about 5-6 cards that often stumped me. I thought I knew them and then the next day---mind went blank. For these I pulled out an old deck of Jumbo Cards and drew large pictures of the numbers on these cards and left them on my desk and played with them for a few more days. They soon turned into special favorites.

---x---

Now every few days I review the stack as follows: 1--recite it 1-52 in my mind, 2--name the stack numbers for four-of-a-kinds in my mind, and 3--most important (for me), shuffle a deck and arrange it in order in my hands without using a table. I can do this in about 1-2 minutes depending upon how sharp I am that day and I've really thought about the fastest ways of doing that. It takes about 5 minutes every few days to review and I've gone weeks without doing it and then can get all the way back in one day.

Best of luck
Message: Posted by: The Amazing Noobini (Aug 8, 2007 07:07PM)
This thread is a great fountain of references. I'm going to make an effort NOT to click on any of the links so as not to commit my usual mistake of starting on 50 different things and never finishing any.

I think I'll start with Mr. Lorayne's book. My goal is just to satisfy my curiosity and maybe become better at remembering everyday things like grocery lists and people's names.

I've already memorized a stack order (Aronson) without any singing whatsoever. Sounds like fun to be able to memorize a deck in a couple of minutes but that is only good as an effect in itself, I think. Two or three minutes is too long to memorize a deck under someone's nose. Better then to use the one already learnt, marked, crimped, shortened and whatnot.
Message: Posted by: Yoava333 (Aug 9, 2007 01:09PM)
I want to start memorizing a deck, What is the best memorized deck order?
Yoav
Message: Posted by: Midway (Aug 9, 2007 01:31PM)
Why not try Joyal's Six Hour Memorized deck. It's based on a set of rules you can learn pretty easily. After a while the rules fade away and the memorized order remains.
Message: Posted by: The Amazing Noobini (Aug 9, 2007 02:06PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-09 14:09, Yoava333 wrote:
I want to start memorizing a deck, What is the best memorized deck order?
Yoav
[/quote]

The thing to do, I think, is to do a bit of research first into what stack order has this and that built into it. (Search, read, etc). I tried to find out more information about that before I started memorizing a stack, but I didn't get any clear answers. Most people said "it doesn't matter what stack you choose, all of the good effects can be done with any full deck stack order". Well... this isn't exactly the case.

For instance, the Aronson stack has some built in features that will automatically work under certain circumstances; a Poker deal for 5 players, a Bridge deal, as well as some other things. The stack order is set up so that once you cut to a certain location, the rest is automatic. I didn't know this when I started learning it and now I find the Poker deal quite useful, whereas none of the other stuff really grab my interest.

I think the Tamariz stack has the ability to be shuffled into a perfectly sorted deck. I'm not sure what else it has exactly.

Hopefully someone (like Mr. Loomis) who know a great deal more about these things will give you some sort of list of features for the most popular stacks. They all have tons of published material that you can use with your chosen stack, but the built in features are important when making a choice.

In any case, I recommend that you learn a full deck stack, -one of the ones which looks like a shuffled deck when spread without having to many clearly visible "patterns". It takes a bit of work to get it down but anyone can do it with a little patience.
Message: Posted by: Yoava333 (Aug 9, 2007 02:35PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-09 15:06, The Amazing Noobini wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-08-09 14:09, Yoava333 wrote:
I want to start memorizing a deck, What is the best memorized deck order?
Yoav
[/quote]
The thing to do, I think, is to do a bit of research first into what stack order has this and that built into it. (Search, read, etc). I tried to find out more information about that before I started memorizing a stack, but I didn't get any clear answers. Most people said "it doesn't matter what stack you choose, all of the good effects can be done with any full deck stack order". Well... this isn't exactly the case.

For instance, the Aronson stack has some built in features that will automatically work under certain circumstances; a Poker deal for 5 players, a Bridge deal, as well as some other things. The stack order is set up so that once you cut to a certain location, the rest is automatic. I didn't know this when I started learning it and now I find the Poker deal quite useful, whereas none of the other stuff really grab my interest.

I think the Tamariz stack has the ability to be shuffled into a perfectly sorted deck. I'm not sure what else it has exactly.

Hopefully someone (like Mr. Loomis) who know a great deal more about these things will give you some sort of list of features for the most popular stacks. They all have tons of published material that you can use with your chosen stack, but the built in features are important when making a choice.

In any case, I recommend that you learn a full deck stack, -one of the ones which looks like a shuffled deck when spread without having to many clearly visible "patterns". It takes a bit of work to get it down but anyone can do it with a little patience.
[/quote]

where can I learn the Tamariz stack?
Message: Posted by: edh (Aug 9, 2007 04:40PM)
[quote] where can I learn the Tamariz stack? [/quote]

Mnemonica(sp?)
Message: Posted by: The Amazing Noobini (Aug 9, 2007 04:45PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-09 15:35, Yoava333 wrote:

where can I learn the Tamariz stack?
[/quote]

Through this book here: http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=913
I want to get this myself, but as of now I still have unread books to last me for years.
Message: Posted by: The Amazing Noobini (Aug 9, 2007 06:03PM)
P.S. If you find an online copy that says "sp" behind the titlem I would assume that this is the original edition in spanish, which may or may not be what you want.

I thought about getting Tamariz books in spanish myself since I am studing the language. However, I should probably stick to my easy readers for now or some easier magic book like "Magia en el bar" with nice big drawings in it. :)
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Aug 10, 2007 07:19PM)
Okay, Nooblini asked for it. I have a very short list for you.
If you don't care about built in features, but want a stack that you can learn quickly, you want Doug Dyment's Quickstack. You can learn it in about 30 minutes.

If you want a stack which has a lot of built in routines and much available information in print, there are only two to really consider. The Aronson Stack, and Juan Tamariz' Mnemonica.

Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: Morphy (Aug 11, 2007 12:54PM)
From another thread:

M3d is the "Mind Map Mem Deck" by Dr. Hans-Christian Solka.

He has written a Ebook (66 Pages) about it, and you can download it for free!
Unfortunately it's not in english, and I don't know if there is a translated version anywhere.
But even if you can not speak german, you should look at the pictures very carefully and perhaps you get the idea behind the mind-mapping system.

Here you can download 3 of his books:

Mind Mapping for memorized decks, M3D and M3d-Encore.

http://www.solka2.privat.t-online.de/memdeck/mindmapping.htm

(I think he is also here at the magic Café.)

Edit:

I just looked up his posts at the magic Café. His name is HCS and he only posted 6 times, because his english is not very good.
But.. in on of his posts, he posted a link to an english explanation of the m3d-stack:

Here it is:

http://www.solka2.privat.t-online.de/memdeck/docs/m3d_eng.pdf
Message: Posted by: leosx1 (Mar 9, 2010 03:37AM)
Assigning tunes of various songs to the cards has helped me a lot in memorizing the crads.
Message: Posted by: yann B (Mar 11, 2010 07:49AM)
[quote]
On 2005-12-09 05:01, GusVanNostrum wrote:
Cormac9: Don't get Harry Loraynes book. You are already using Dominic O'Briens system, which I think is a big improvement in relation to the 100 year old major-link-system. I would say: More practice.
[/quote]

it sounds similar to the mentalist technics used to memorize random objects. you have first memorize yuor personal list of scenes correlated to each number; and visually associate each random object to the corresponding scene .. on the fly.

although I use 40 scenes for the mentalist routine, I found it of little use for memorizing cards because, each card are pretty similar. I've memorized the Tamariz, by sequence of 3 or 6, depending on which card are first and last of the serie. it took me 3 sessions.
Message: Posted by: ricardo carpenter (Mar 19, 2010 03:44PM)
Alphabet=26 positions