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Topic: Return of the Clones!
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 17, 2005 03:00PM)
It strikes me that we have a massive influx of people that want to become Street Buskers.

Many simply becoming clones of established buskers, I can understand why there is that desire but I think there has to be a line drawn. For example you canít have eight buskers performing one pitch on the same day that do a Gazzo or Cellini show. This would never be conducive to anyone or magic and will effect your hats and possible bookings.

Can the established buskers encourage new comers to come up with there own routeen?
I am not saying donít learn from the masters or donít touch C&B or S Jacket escapes but rather be your own performer. I think it can be help full to try to come up with your own stuff at first, explore and donít be afraid to make mistakes.

I think advising new comers to buy books on street performing before they have had a go is premature and bad advise. They end up being shaped by others before they have tried and tested it for them selfís. Watching other street performers perform is far better school if you hold in mind that you want to be original at least in your character. I would say once you have learned a few ropes for your self you will be able to be subjective when reading books or DVDís. Some times I do feel that the threads are more like dealer dens than real good advice. The best advise I could give to a new comer that wants to busk is simple just go and do it and then keep on keeping on.
Message: Posted by: magickdabid--uk (Dec 17, 2005 04:41PM)
Seems "street Busking" is the latest fad thing.......maybe the "Mental thing" is wearing off....?

There is both good & bad advice your offering Mario, to tell the new commers to go out and just do it will just produce a batch of bad (wannabe) performers, which in turn will make the job (for real buskers) that much harder!, you only need to take a look at the close-up circuts to see all those who are having a go and plagueing the public with the latest "trick" making it harder for anyone to get a good paid gig if you know what I mean.....?

Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 17, 2005 05:34PM)
Thanks Dave
Your right of cause, speaking from just my own experience it is better to develop your own routeen than be a carbon copy of some one else. Then if you adopt some one elseís routeen at least you have the experience to make it your own.
If you simply copy some one else you will have to unlearn a lot to make it your own.
You mentioned mental thing, imaging if you were to just copy one act over and over again. Or comedian lifting some ones elseís show for word for word it would not go down well and should not happen. Yes there are props that we all use but we need to work hard to make them our own. A new comer will do well to do just that make it his own. I am speaking to establish performers to encourage creative thinking amongst new comers as opposed to carbon copies of them selfs.
Message: Posted by: magickdabid--uk (Dec 17, 2005 06:05PM)
There are copies of mental acts Mario, there called Osterlind clones!......

The trouble is, we live in a very fast paced world, and newbie magicians are no diffrent than anyone else, they all want the newest thing yesterday to do today, it's sad, long gone are the days when an act would take years of trial and error to develop, nowadays it's got to instant this & instant that....so sad.

Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 17, 2005 06:37PM)
If that is the case Dave, the best advise I could give to a new comer that wants to busk is simple just go and do it and then keep on keeping on.
Message: Posted by: magickdabid--uk (Dec 17, 2005 06:47PM)
Mario.....just sent ya a PM.

Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 17, 2005 07:40PM)
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Dec 18, 2005 06:44AM)
What worriesme now is that Gazzo sold out to Penguin. Now every 13 yr old kid with a rich daddy will be buying his books, his cups and going out and trying to be a busker. That may hurt those of us who live by busking with all the kids doing it poorly.

Message: Posted by: Dave V (Dec 18, 2005 11:08AM)
I think he has the opposite idea. If they learn his routines [i]his way[/i] they'll be much more succesful than just stumbling around aimlessly butchering our art and ultimately hurting all of us. Once they get a taste of success, their own style will start to emerge.
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (Dec 18, 2005 12:02PM)
It doesn't matter who owns the gazzo stuff because very few can deliver it!

its like the masked magi, remember him...made no differeance at all

its about you and your personality....thats it...if you don't have a personality then you will fail and it doesn't matter who you imitate
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 18, 2005 12:04PM)
For the record, I did mention Gazzo and Cellini but it is not about them but rather in genrale. If they want to take a note from this post then they are wellcome to it. As far as what Gazzo does with his stuff well that is his business, he is a very clever business man and even a better busker.
Dave I don't know what your talking about! Stumbling around aimlessly is called learning it is the best thing you can do. They aint going to hurt me it is what stret performers have been doing for hundreads of years. what will hurt is another band from Peru.
Message: Posted by: Brent McLeod (Dec 18, 2005 03:19PM)
Street Performing is such a challenge & only rewarding when through your own trial & error have found what works for you & gets the reactions from a lay audience

Coming from a stage background I had to learn all over again for street & festival shows & through small market events where I tried certain effects to now doing shows for hundreds odf onlookers at street festivals

It was trial by fire & I soon learned to put together an act that works on the street only-Theres no way to clone someone elses act-it wouldnt work!!

Knowing what you do is going to work through your own hard grafting is a real pleasure & you can be yourself & relax with the crowds & they sense this-I guess its called experience

It just wont work if we clone anothers act-theres no way I could do cups& balls like Nick Nickalus in this part of the world-as also he cant do the Rings like me!!

Street perfroming is invigorating to say the least -What a buzz when a good show is recognised by your lay audience!!

Message: Posted by: Sir T (Dec 18, 2005 07:44PM)
Where to start? I think part of the interest in street peforming, is L and L doing. IN are world of instant everything, as L and L publishes series of tapes, everyone jumps on the band wagon, hoping to be part of the next big thing, be it mentalism or street performing. as little as a year or so ago, you would have been hard pressed to fing a video on Street perfoming now there a more then a few, to slecet from.

Yes, there are more than one Gazzo clone and even a few Cellini clones, and it is my guess, they will last about as long as a head cold Working the streets is a different world from working the living room curcit, you either love it and are made for it, or your not. The clones will come and go, but those that endour and last will still make a nice fat hat!

I would like to comment on Paddy post:

What worriesme now is that Gazzo sold out to Penguin. Now every 13 yr old kid with a rich daddy will be buying his books, his cups and going out and trying to be a busker. That may hurt those of us who live by busking with all the kids doing it poorly.

up front I wish Gazzo the best!! Having said that, the best cups in the world and all the books in the world will not make that kid any good! Gazzo is going to make a mint off his deal, good for him. Those cups and books bought by those kids will be on ebay for a fraction of the cost, and those that can use them for real will get them cheap.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Dec 19, 2005 12:09AM)
Street Performing is tough, PERIOD!

The weed out factor is HUGE.

It's takes an interesting sort to fall in love with rejection on your way to progress and your own style.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Dec 19, 2005 01:53AM)
I am defidently not a clone - I have never read a Cellini book or seen a Gazzo video. In fact, I've only seen two magicians do a street act - but neither of them were actually buskers (allthough, excellent magicians in their own right - no disrespect intended there at all). Everything I know I pretty much self-taught myself. I have seen jugglers and musicians and what have you, but there don't seem to be as many magic acts and I've just never crossed paths.

From goofing off with a yo-yo on the boardwalk for attention as a kid, to pitching trick sticks to the masses at grateful dead shows, to creating my illusions for my street shows that don't include cups-n-balls or straight jackets - my Disappearing JoeJoe routine was constructed to both build a crowd and collect the tip in mind, and unless someone has stolen it I am the only one doing it. I may or may not be one of the best, I don't really care - I am "JoeJoe", something no one else is which I am proud of. My aim is to create a once-in-a-lifetime experience, the hat comes second to the show in my book.

Would I recommend it to anyone else? HECK NO! Do yourself a favor and get a book and watch the video! You will cut years off the learning curb. Perhaps one day I myself will get some of these videos and books I hear about, but for now I am happy doing things the way I do them and feel outside influence is not what I need at this juncture. I've been doing things my way so long, I don't really want to learn someone else's way.

The upside to doing it yourself is the orginality - it was very difficult yes, the rejection is strong - you become jaded and must believe in yourself when no one else does. But it forced a level of creativity on me that I don't think I would have if I was formally schooled. So Mario's comment has merit, no doubt about that in my mind. It just seems like a much longer harder road, when I first started out it wasn't my intention to learn everything on my own - I just didn't have a choice in the matter, I played the cards I was delt and didn't get a Cellini or Gazzo card.

To add my best advice: don't limit yourself to just street performing. I've done bars, I've done resturants, I've done comedy clubs, I've done theaters, I've done nightclubs, I've done parties, festivals, amusment parks, and probroly any other venue you can imagine. I've even done magic in shorts on the beach. Every venue has something to teach you ... and all of the lessons cross-over into the other venues. For example, when you are table hopping at a resturant ... you get to talk to people directly and can hear their perspective on your act directly - this is something you cant gather in a crowd format.

Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 19, 2005 06:15AM)
JoeJoe that is fantastic dude, you are a real credit to your self and the art of Street Performing.

When I first started, there were no regular Street Performers in Cardiff in fact their still ant. I sore them come and go, as soon as they realized they can double there hat in England they were gone.

The great thing about having the Capitol of Wales to your self you can play, explore, and make mistakes. Most importantly you donít have to compare your self to another performer.

Their was one busker that turned up Dave Suvan and his trade mark was a ten foot uni that he made out of a ladder, he would put on these lock brakes and climb up. He was great crowd puller and for about one year we worked back to back. He gave me valuable tips on how to improve my show which I took on board.

My show was working well now and I was getting booking in addition been asked to lecturer/workshops on the Art of Street theater, at Magical Societies, the British and European Juggerling Conventionís and the Christian Fellowship of Magician UK. I am doing tow lecters/workshops in the beginning of next year.

At this point I had been playing with C&B but not in my show I did that once at the beginning and I was not about to do it again until five years of playing had past. Then I took my C&B onto the street my finale load was six base balls and a large tennis ball from under the hat. After about Seven years I herd of this guy called Cellini so I got his book and adopted some of his ideas but I kept my final loads. Then I herd about Gazzo and him coming to the UK, so I booked my self on to his Master Class I improved my standard 100% with out a dought and as I hope he knows am very thankful to him.

The years of trial and era set me up as a performer for life. I was a street performer well before I even herd of these names. There is no way I could have read a few books and watched a few DVD's and hay presto I am street performer.

Through my years of just stumbling around aimlessly I learned my trade for life.
Just like JoeJoe I now can perform. Street Theater, Side Show, Comedy, Festivals, restraunts, pubs, clubs, and trade shows, Parties, motivational speaker. These skills I have developed due to my early years. Thinking about it every Busker that I have meat that is successful has got their tooth and nail and they are most of all street wise. At least in the UK mind you I have not meat every busker far, from it.

PS I will add this is the only thing I can do, I have no other qualifications other than my Driving License. The only thing I have ever done is Street trading, Grafting, and Performing. If there is some thing else you can do, do your self a favour go and do it. lol
Message: Posted by: magicguy67 (Dec 19, 2005 07:29AM)
I am new to street performing nad I don't take anyonbes ideas except maybe one hatline but ive made my own.I have this idea of using stage on the streets.
Message: Posted by: Magicpitch (Dec 19, 2005 09:44AM)
This argument is not limited to street performing. Just head to the close up side of this forum, and every other forum, and you'll see loads of people being accused of being Ammar clones because they learn from Ammar. Fact is we all have to learn from somewhere. None of us sit in our rooms and create from nothing. We are influenced by those we learn from and enjoy. It's really up to the individual. Every single person I have met that teaches magic or sells videos will tell you to copy them, it's okay. They say that you SHOULD copy them until you get it all worked out and then, and only then, should you start making it your own.

I'm not sure where the issue comes in, because to me, it's really a non-issue. People copy the late, great, Bob Read, and it's okay, an in some ways, even a tribute to his greatness, but if you copy Ammar, Gazzo, or Cellini, then you're a clone. It seems that the magic community loves to pick and chose who it's okay to model yourself after. Model your card magic after Harry Lorayne and you'll never hear a word, model your card magic from Ammar's videos and you're an Ammar clone. Same with street performing.

Fact is we all learn from books and videos written or produced by someone. If it's so wrong to copy someone's routine, then tell those who publish them to quit selling them. That's the source. If everyone's doing Cellini's routines and that's unacceptable, then where'd they learn it from? Someone filmed it. Cellini stood in front of the camera. Where's the outrage at that end? If the material wasn't SOLD, then it wouldn't reach the masses. In the cause and effect world, the source isn't the people who are buying it, it's the people who are selling the effects for money.

I believe it's all hype anyway. People sell their routines, people buy them, and they have every right to replicate that routine in any manner which they chose. If it wasn't okay for that to happen, then people should stop selling their pet routines.

I'm also amazed at how many times on these videos people claim that something is "their own", only to later find out that the bits, gags, lines, and effects were around LONG before these peformers even thought about performing.
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (Dec 19, 2005 12:32PM)
I agree with Magicpitch. Besides, I've seen the videos of many performers here and on other forums. Most are inherently alike. By the way Mario, yours looks incredibly like Gazzo's. Nothing wrong with it. Just stating a fact. Maybe it's time some of us step down off the soap box for a while.
Everybody emulates their mentors, or their source of learning. Then hopefully, they move on to their own, but until then, why not emulate the greats like Gazzo, Cellini, and Bob Read?
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 19, 2005 12:54PM)
Steve I agree with you in part.
Yes use routines but to copy Ammar word for word or to dress like him and say grow a mustache is taking it too far.

What I am simply trying to say is my preferred model of teaching is to encourage people to perform, to act to be them selfís. That is what I like so much about Cellinis DVD's he teaches you the trick out of Character. Gazzo may well say "do as I do" but I canít imagine he means copy my character and dress like me.

Yes when I teach someone say a card trick, I will teach them the only way I know the way I do it. But when I teach them to perform it I will teach them to do it they way that suits them. This is a good teaching principal that any Drama School will aim to achieve with there students.

Maybe I confused the issue when I said
Can the established buskers encourage new comers to come up with there own routeen?
It is probably better to say,
Can the established buskers encourage new comers to learn to perform and entertain than be a clone?

Start the way you intend to continue, learn routines by all means but make them your own
If you are a new comer to busking TRY to avoid buying any books or DVD's for the first six months to a year establish your self in your own mind. I promise you, you will learn skills for life.
I understand you got to start some where but if you read in between my lines I think you will understand what I am saying. Be creative the whole world is your stage.
Message: Posted by: Magicpitch (Dec 19, 2005 01:38PM)
I undertstand your point Mario. You were VERY fortunate that you were able to be around some great teachers. However, as you know, the USA is a large place. Most people in magic are far outside the reach of having a great teacher within driving distance. How's one supposed to learn? Let's take someone who's been into magic for 5 years and is 25 years old, living in North Dakota somewhere (I hear rumors people do actually live there). How's that person supposed to learn about street performing?

How many people do color monte with the out of the box patter? How many people do Twisting the Aces the EXACT same way Vernon did? I've met many who use the patter from their teaching sources, whether it's a book or a video, but I've yet to meet anyway who's grown a mustache to look like Ammar :D

The part of a street performer has often lead to the character of a street hustler. If you look, Gazzo, Whit, Chef, and a 100 other people dress in that same character. To me, that shows nothing more than people trying to look the part of an old time street con artist type character. Certainly if you go to a Ren faire, you'll find a lot of people all dressed alike as well, since they are all playing roles from the same time period.

I just believe that the thought that everyone is copying everyone else is more or a ego trip that real facts. If so, then there are 100 people dressing with bowler hats, vests, white shirts, and an arm band, and all of them are working professionals, not amateurs trying to learn street performing.

I think it's a great thing to teach someone and help them develop their own character and it's great that you take the time to do that with people you teach. However, most people don't have teachers, they learn from books and videos bought over the internet. Until they master the lines, the timing associated with the moves and the lines, it's hard to have the technical knowledge to create and make it your own.

And what qualifies making it your own? Same routine, different lines? Same lines, modified routine? Modified routine, different lines? It's taken those who release material 20 plus years of fine tuning to get their routine to that point, so why should we expect someone who bought a Cellini video 6 weeks ago to be able to create and make it their own in 6 weeks time? It can take years, even decades to make something unique to you, don't you think?
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Dec 19, 2005 01:50PM)
On 2005-12-19 14:38, Magicpitch wrote:
I just believe that the thought that everyone is copying everyone else is more or a ego trip that real facts. If so, then there are 100 people dressing with bowler hats, vests, white shirts, and an arm band, and all of them are working professionals, not amateurs trying to learn street performing.

Thanks Steve, you just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am NOT a clone! I dress in a Bowler, vest, [b]BLACK SHIRT[/b], and an arm band. See? I'm nothing like those other clones! ;)

Besides, if I were a real Gazzo clone, I'd have to perform standing in a hole. :lol:

I have one advantage he doesn't though. At least I know the weather before he does.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 19, 2005 01:59PM)
On 2005-12-19 13:32, BAH1313 wrote:
Maybe it's time some of us step down off the soap box for a while.

Ok so that is the way it is going to be.
I think you have missed my point, close but know cigar as you guys tend to say.

Yes I do C&B in part way Gazzo taught me but to say I say act like Gazzo is an INSULT to him and my self. Even Gazzo said I performed like a Mad Market Trader, and that was established well before I meat or even heard of him.

Maybe you have no back bone to your own character that you have not developed over the years. Maybe you are Carbon copy of some one else work if that is the case then yes I would agree with you step down off the soap box for a while.

Does Gazzo use Dippy Duck; maybe he balances a tray on top of a ten foot pool with Rocky on top while playing amazing grace on a kazoo. No I donít think so.

I was invited to the British Street Performers Competition 2005. All that sore it committed how I took the Gazzo routeen and made it mine. I performed as the Medicine Man with Dippy Duck and C&B. Garry Animal said that it was good that I made it mine, Simon Jackson even thoe he took the pee out of my Duck said it was mine. I phoned Gazzo on many occasions to get advice as I made it mine. There is a lot of History on hear me doing research as I worked on that Character.

I am not arguing for originality but I could, I am simply wanted to encourage creative performers.

I am rapidly beginning to get angry with being misunderstood hear. Have I not been plain enough? This seems to be destined to go of target this is not weather you do C&B all not this is about entertaining.

I have put my head on a block not stood up on a soap box.

Maybe your right I should just shut up write it in a book and sell it to you.

If you cant say thank you for good honest advice when it is given, then good luck to you.

Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 19, 2005 02:06PM)
Thanks Steve
That is a fair point and you have calmed me down.
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (Dec 19, 2005 03:03PM)
Mario, didn't intend to insult or cause you anger. I was trying to make the point that if you are doing a Gazzo Like routine and seemed to have made it your own, then what's wrong with another trying the same? By the way, I've seen your C&B routine, and it's very good. (I have not seen the Dippy Duck or the Kazzoo bits.)
I will say this. Do not question my back bone as a performer or as an individual. I was only questioning your input. I, in no way questioned your "back-bone" nor Character. It seems that you are very good at raising questions, but when it comes time that someone askes a valid question or even posts a valid point to contradict you, you get very defensive. I am not attempting to rile you up here, but come on. Who else is always asking the "real" buskers to come forward or issuing some sort of BS challenge trying to get people to "prove" their worth in the Busking community? I see plainly what you are saying when you write, in fact most of it seems to be focussed on the fact you do this for a living and nobody else does, or shouldnt be included here because of that fact. Give me a break Mario. Everyone starts somewhere. More and more you sound like one of those pompus fools in the clubs. I read and enjoy this forum very much, but lately, you my friend are getting a little prejudicial about who posts and who doesn't. Most of these guys are just starting out. Why cut on them? Sure some may give poor advice, but as you ahve said in a lot of posts, you just have to go out and do it. Who cares what they've written, or read? If the only way to learn is go out and do it, then what others say, do,or write shouldnt make any difference. Should it?
reminds me of an old saying... There's no such thing as free advice. Someone always ends up paying for it.
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (Dec 19, 2005 03:33PM)
Mario, let me add any appologies for what I said in previous post. I admit that I wrote most out of anger. I respect your outlook, and I respect your opinion.
I think overall, everyone is on the right track, and the good ones keep going. The bad ones find other things to do with their time. Hey, there's always juggling.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 19, 2005 03:45PM)
How can you apologize and contradict your self in the same statement.

As soon as you start talking about soap boxes you have taking the gloves off as far as I am concerned. As far as backbone and Character I am referring to performing only.

As far as my recent my last two threads youíre referring too I suggest you try to understand what I am saying because you donít appear to have got it at all.

I am amazed how many PM I have received from different performers. That have different angles experiences on what I am saying but agree with what I am proposing. Where the hell are you, why donít you say what you think? As I said in my last thread this is my Ditch attempted to get to know the Buskers on hear.

I pour out my heart and get called a pompus fool. I try my best to help newcomers and I am accused of cutting in on them. Just show me one post any where I say to anyone donít post hear if youíre not a busker, my intention is quite the opposite. Youíre just missing or twisting what I say. As it goes you sound like my Mother. All this coming from the safety of having no name, face or website. I assume you go to a magic club if so which one?

PS If there is one thing that I am pompus about is my hate for being PC for the sake of being PC. So don't appolergise if you beleave in your statment stand by what you beleave, or don't say anything. If your going to pee on a bed be it your own.
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (Dec 19, 2005 04:41PM)
Mario, Many times I tend to take things out of context. Call it what you will, but I'm not contradicting myself. I did not say you were a pompus fool. I only said that you were starting to sound like the ones at the magic clubs. Which, by the way I am NOT a member of for this very reason. I did not intend to twist what you said. Only reply to it. Mario, I respect what you say, and you are a hell of a performer, but come on, I would think that after being a street performer/busker for so long you would have thicker skin by now. Should I soften my approach?
I may not have my picture plastered up, my name up, or my website posted, but what would that matter any way? I was just trying to communicate with people in the same business as me. Besides, who here would care about my website? Just another form of self promotion. Tooting our own horns?
Whether or not you know who I am makes no difference to me. It's not you(or any other busker) that's paying my bills.
I tried to apologize after posting and then reading what I said, and I meant it. Come on Mario, lets be pals... chums... I don't wanna fight, I wants ta be friends.

My Name is Robert my phone number is (859) 912-1448 I live outside of Cincinnati, Ohio. No website yet. Too many kids to feed.
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (Dec 19, 2005 04:50PM)
Pee in a bed? I do stand by what I said. I didn't mean for it to come off so harsh is all. That's not being PC. That's admitting I made a mistake. I guess what I'm saying is Clones are cool. I wish there was more clones, except without all the make up, or the big shoes, or the funny noses.
Hey are we talking about the same thing?
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 19, 2005 04:51PM)
Happy Christmas
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (Dec 19, 2005 05:04PM)
That was a joke Mario. I was referring to Clowns. Just playing with the word clones is all. And NO clones are not cool. I think it's just very popular thing to be doing right now. Believe me I have seen dozens of guys come and go near my pitch. They don't last because they have the personality or toughness for it. The funny thing is, everyone of 'em owns a s&^%ton of videos about busking, or seen us do it, and thought "hey that looks easy" they try, and fail and quit.
The only thing that really hurts us is when they give up the magic by exposing the tricks through malpractice. This can hurt a little, but in the long run, the crowds still like who they like.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 19, 2005 05:41PM)
To all: a poem.
I have a problem it is called this place, it is a growing addiction, I think I need my head examined to stay, Another evening spent playing with my self, the result brain less umm noise, Thatís me I am bailing out I may pop in and pee on your beds from time to time, The horizon is fake and I have hit the wall,
Can I resist a fix of calling out my name, Mario we really do care, like hell you do, My monitor has trap doors mirrors and little folk sinning ďwe can fix it, we can fix itĒ, When all the time it was never really their
Should I stay or should I go, Oh no their is some one knocking on my door.
That all from me good morning good evening and good night.

On the over hand I have four fingers and a thumb.
PS Don't worry I am just having a flash back, :)
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 19, 2005 08:29PM)
I have had a few more thoughts on this thread and my flash backs are over. I canít help but think it has been crossed wired with Gazzo move to Penguin (sorry Gazzo not my intention). As I have said this is his Business full stop. I do and have recommended buying books. Or I was suggesting is to try it yourself first. I believe that you will learn important lessons if you do, lesson you will never learn if you donít. If you dress up like a con man great but what ever you do be your self. Please donít send me any more pm's on this subject in particular ones that involve back stabbing, it is doing my head in and it is not my business. If you got something to say, say it on hear. Donít say one thing in private and opposite in public that is two faced for me. Robert if your wondering if this is about you no it is not, thank you for your PM. Maybe it explains why a barked so loudly.
PPPS Dave I think you look great
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Dec 19, 2005 09:30PM)
Gee, I thought your post was really well thought out mario! I also thought it gave some food for thought, such deep questions as, "To clone or not to clone?" Will I be better off or worse off? If I am going to clone, who to clone and why? do clones last longer or not than some one who knows how to adapt an act? Am I better off to clone? Or better to create on my own? Wow, I liked the post, not sure why all the hurt feelings?
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (Dec 20, 2005 07:45AM)

I wouldnt have thought it about me. I understand the angst, and the feeling somewhat betrayed by the general masses getting ahold of all the great information that is prvided by Gazzo. But, in a funny way it just encourages the rest of us to become more original, and leave the "wannabes" behind. If they are all doing the "clone" thing, then we must by matter of pride and professionalism move on to our own plains of existance. You never know, it could be your act that everyone wants to copy in the future.

Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Dec 22, 2005 03:22AM)
To Totaly ccontridict my self, but who gives a crap.

Two books I would recomend a to newcomer.
"The Secret Art of Magic" by Eric Evans & Nowlin Craver
"The Art Of Krowd Keeping" By Gazzo

I always sell products at my workshops. If someone has knowledge of magic but is new to busking (which is always the case) I will tell them to have a go first with what they got already and save a bit of money. Beleave me that goes right against the grain of a Pitchman all Dealer. This is an old argument in sorts I have had with Mark Lewis. I cant sell products to folk if I don't beleave in and I can still make a good Grafter. Fundational theory stuff like the ones I have mentioned I think can be very good.