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Topic: Which switch - and is it magical?
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Nov 14, 2002 05:45AM)
If I'm to learn a bill switch, what's the best source?

And - perhaps more to the point - is any bill switch really magical? *Surely* the spectators know *exactly* what's just happened... they just don't know exactly when or exactly how?
Message: Posted by: Andy G (Nov 14, 2002 06:11AM)
Phantomas has nice visual bill change he sells for $15, there's another thread about it on the board, and you can see his video of it.

But I agree with what you're saying, which is why I don't care for the bill switch - it's just not believable.
Message: Posted by: Lance Pierce (Nov 14, 2002 06:13AM)
Ooooh, this begs the question, Andy... what magical effects do you do that ARE believable... and if they're believable, are they magical? Isn't magic, by definition, beyond belief?

Cheers,

Lance
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Nov 14, 2002 07:20AM)
I think quite a few things that "we" do are magical - isn't that the point? At any rate they should defy the rational analysis that most people are prepared to devote to it.

Take the simple TT silk vanish. Done well (and, ahem, I think I'm not bad at it) this defies rational analysis. What options are open to the spectator?

a) It went up his sleeve. Well, I usually roll mine up so that's one sorted
b) He secretly conceals it in his hand. Even with a TT, a convincing "nothing in my hands" display is possible.
c) It went in his pocket. Nope - his hands were nowhere near his pocket, and besides, how come he made it reappear?
d) Err... you got me! That really looks like magic!

See what I mean? With a bill transformation, the deduction might go like this:

a) He must have switched the #5 for the #20. Hmmm- yup! I didn't see him do it, though. How clever!

Clever - but magic?
Message: Posted by: Lance Pierce (Nov 14, 2002 08:21AM)
In another thread in the Food for Thought forum, there's a conversation going on that's trying to untangle exactly these questions and more. I'm convinced that it's possible to do the Bill Change in a way that a "switch" doesn't seem possible, but it has to be approached just so.

Cheers,


Lance
Message: Posted by: David Fletcher (Nov 14, 2002 09:40AM)
The bill switch is one of my signature pieces.
Their bill to a hundred, back to their bill. Then their bill to envelope in wallet.
It is all in the presentation. The show. The acting.
Message: Posted by: magic hands (Nov 14, 2002 10:54AM)
I agree with David..
It gets one of the strongest reactions of the effects I do..
I change their bill (looking to see if it is counterfeit) and change it to the mis-made bill.. :yippee:
Message: Posted by: Lucas Walker (Nov 14, 2002 02:21PM)
There is a great TT bill change I saw while I was in Belgium. It fried tons of magicians and specators alike. I personally saw it used in impromptu bar situations and was veritably impressed. The magician I was with got a free drink out of the deal... A color and denomination change would be pretty impressive I think. Like a regular dollar to monopoly money?...Just a thought. Good luck.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Nov 14, 2002 02:29PM)
I do a lot of coin magic so I purposely lead people down the wrong path on the bill switch. It goes like this:

Have you ever been to a vending machine that accepted dollar bills and it keeps spitting your dollar bill back out and won't accept it? Have you ever wished you could turn your dollar bill into quarters? How many quarters is a bill worth? (answers 4). I have found a really neat way to turn a dollar bill into four quarters. I show my hands empty of any coins. (Fold, fold, fold do the bill switch for a mismade bill).

Here is your bill in four quarters!

It's a play on words that catches them by suprise.

They never see it coming.

I always tell them quite honestly, a bill in four quarters works even worse in the soda machine, trust me I have tried! Let me show you how to fix it if you accidently fold your bill into quarters - then I fix the bill and hand it back.

I can't count the times people sit there folding their bill trying to fold it into quarters. There is a psycological difference from turning a $1.00 into a $100 - it's an obvious switch. If you turn a bill inside out - I don't know why but often people really believe you actually did that - I guess it's not as far of a mental stretch.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Nov 14, 2002 08:31PM)
That's good dan.

It also seems like the monopoly money gag could work quite well on a heckler, Awol.
Message: Posted by: twistedace (Nov 14, 2002 09:10PM)
I agree with dan. The mismade bill is much stronger. Sankey has a nice non-threatening routine where he solves a puzzle. 4 holes, one in each corner of the bill join in one corner. As far as best bill switch? I've seen Visibill which you can see at http://www.magicsmith.com/ and that is by far the nicest looking bill switch. WooHOo! I just realized this is post 100! :dancing:
Message: Posted by: Magix (Nov 14, 2002 09:44PM)
I am also looking for a good bill switch. Does anyone know anything about these two below? I'm looking for a good clean examinable switch. (no TT)

5 & 1 Bill Transposition (This is not Ultimate Bill Transpostion)
http://www.magical-tricks.com/Bill%20Transposition.htm

1-100 Bill Switch
http://themagicwarehouse.com/closeup.html#lp2426
Message: Posted by: danny (Nov 15, 2002 10:28AM)
Jay Sankey explains it on one of his best of videos. I think it's number two
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Nov 16, 2002 03:30AM)
See my post under Mismade Bill.
Message: Posted by: wsduncan (Nov 17, 2002 01:18AM)
[quote]
I can't count the times people sit there folding their bill trying to fold it into quarters. There is a psycological difference from turning a $1.00 into a $100 - it's an obvious switch. If you turn a bill inside out - I don't know why but often people really believe you actually did that - I guess it's not as far of a mental stretch.
[/quote]

Actually it makes sense if you don't know about magical techniques...

If you show me a one dollar bill and then
"change" it into something that isn't a one dollar bill the obvious answer is that it isn't the same bill.

If, on the other hand, you show me a dollar and change it in some significant way (like the mismade bill) and yet it is still a one dollar bill there are too many questions at one time for there to be only one solution. Is it a real bill? Is it the same bill?

Changing a one to a hundred is, of course, a switch. As Carl Balletine says: "How else?"

The mis-made bill version raises more than one question and makes it harder for the audience to process.
Message: Posted by: ChessMess (Nov 17, 2002 05:14AM)
[quote]
5 & 1 Bill Transposition (This is not Ultimate Bill Transpostion)
http://www.magical-tricks.com/Bill%20Transposition.htm
[/quote]

You know I see this a lot it seems.. kinda misleading advertising. At the end he says
"Both bills can easily be handed out for examination". Which isn't true, but it appears so because he's switched the gimicked five dollar bill. I've seen this demonstrated before and I'm assuming it's the same as shown in this video, if not excuse me while I remove foot from mouth, but if so... why say something in the video that isn't true? Am I way off base here?
Message: Posted by: Dan LeFay (Nov 17, 2002 05:28AM)
I am completely with Dan Watkins.
I've been doing the bill switch for at least ten years. As some of you know, pre Euro-European bills were of different color. the effect was ok, but people always wondered where the original bill went.

Then came out the Euro. And I have been so fortunate to got my hands on a mismade Euro-bill. Don't ask me... it is illegal as *&((!

Now the effect has increased to me at least 200%!! Because of the no color change there is an utterly unbelievable deformation of a borrowed bill. Peoples eyes literally bulge when they see this.

Almost 90% of my spectators are immediately folding it to see what happens (some weird twist on the Too perfect theory?).

The very nature of the mismade bill makes the suspicion of a billswitch much, much smaller.
Message: Posted by: Magix (Nov 17, 2002 08:14AM)
[quote]ChessMess wrote:
"You know I see this a lot it seems.. kinda misleading advertising. At the end he says
"Both bills can easily be handed out for examination". Which isn't true, but it appears so because he's switched the gimicked five dollar bill."

I agree. Even though I assumed that a switch had occured in the pocket in order to make the spectator believe that both bills were normal, it is misleading.
Message: Posted by: CoinsFallUp (Nov 17, 2002 04:32PM)
There's an interesting idea for a bill switch using a mismade bill by Marc DeSouza called Picasso's Bill. It appears in Cyber Sessions pg. 96. It doesn't teach you a bill switch, but it's an interesting addition which could make the effect more interesting.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Nov 17, 2002 05:01PM)
Marc uses Kevin King's handling though without the TT.
Message: Posted by: Chris S (Nov 18, 2002 12:57AM)
Right on Dan - if nothing else, the lack of colour really makes the moment. It is also an issue about the irrationality of an audience's mind. One of the most magical routines I have ever seen was David Roth's Tuning Fork routine. This one absolutely knocked my socks off.

In terms of construction, it is nothing short of a masterpiece, but that aside, David made one heck of a good point during the explanation. He said that during the effect when he "pours" the sound of the tuning fork into the glass and then tips it out again so everyone can hear it was captured, it is emminently believable to some people because they think "maybe, if the angles were juuust right, he did as he said".

My rather drawn out point in the context of a bill switch routine is simply this - a different bill really does give the spectators nowhere to go if they think about it. Magical, perhaps, but the mismade bill is superior at the level of irrationality where laypeople live. For the couple of seconds that they see it folded inside out, that little voice in their head says the same thing that they hear when watching the tuning fork "maybe you could do it if you got the fold juuuust right". I think for this reason you should not hand the bill out, since it's when they hold it and feel that it really has turned into what they think they see that maybe a switch could swim into view, but that's a side issue.

Then again, magicians have a tendency to over analyze things and maybe that's exactly what I just did.
Message: Posted by: Zach Allen (Nov 18, 2002 02:04PM)
I performed the Bill Switch today for some of my classmates, using a mis-made bill and the patter line that "if you fold it just right, you can make it appear to turn inside out". For the last 15 minutes of our lunch, I had everyone at the table trying to fold their own bills inside out. What fun, eh?

I think tomorrow that I might use my Scotch and Soda to try and convince them that if they squeeze a Mexican Centavo in their hand, it turns into a quarter. :bg:

It'll be interesting to see how many people actually try to squeeze the Centavo.

Zach
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Nov 18, 2002 05:21PM)
Sounds like a new lunch time game, squeeze the Centavo, good for hours of entertainment.
Message: Posted by: cheeto4567 (Nov 19, 2002 09:46PM)
Some of you already mentioned Jay Sankey's travelling expenses bill switch from his Best of Videos volume 2. He also has the Ultimate Bill Switch Kit which is about $20. One of the best effects on there is the bending the image of a spoon. Definitely check it out! :fruity:
Message: Posted by: MikeM (Nov 19, 2002 11:54PM)
ross welford

Try getting hold of "The Concealed Art of Magic" by George P Sanderson and look up his "Sigma £1 Note & Security"

Regards

MikeM
:bikes: :bikes:
Message: Posted by: Ron Crumley (Apr 25, 2003 10:09AM)
[quote]
On 2002-11-14 10:40, David Fletcher wrote:
The bill switch is one of my signature pieces.
Their bill to a hundred, back to their bill. Then their bill to envelope in wallet.
It is all in the presentation. The show. The acting.
[/quote]

David,

In researching for a good bill switch routine, I read your post.

Because you obviously have developed it to a solid performance, I'd appreciate knowing which version you use and where I can get the handling/material.

Thanks for your help
- Ron
Message: Posted by: Paul Chosse (Apr 25, 2003 11:07AM)
Check out "A $ Change Routine Idea" in the "Food for Thought" Forum - there is a solution to various problems inherent in bill switches in general that you may find worthwhile. I would caution you that the routine is idiosyncratic, however, the principles are applicable to any bill routine, since they are theater based. As far as the actual mechanics of the switch, my method, sans TT, has been published in the Ron Bauer series as "Paul Chosses' Bar Bill Stunt". There are many methods, and any of them may better suit your style, but I am biased, and think that the method I use overcomes the tells that so often give away the fact that "something" happened. I would be happy to comment further if there is anything I can add that will help.

Best, PSC
Message: Posted by: DreamBig (Apr 25, 2003 01:44PM)
I'd like to comment on Ross's post early on in the thread, and only a comment.

Ross uses the example of the TT silk vanish.

I think the same extreme logic can be used, but in reverse. For example:

TT vanish-Yup, he hid it and then unhid it. I don't know where and I don't know how, but it was hidden. Must have been when he placed it in his fist.

Bill Switch:

A) It went up his sleeve. No, his sleeves were rolled up.
B) It was a trick bill. No, he borrowed it from me or no, I examined the bill myself.
C) He was hiding the other bill in his hands. No, he showed me his hands were empty.
D) and just as Ross said. Err... you got me. That really "LOOKS" like magic.

Also a response to Andy's early post that it's just not believable. I wouldn't mind somebody saying, "He borrowed my bill and changed it to a $100 bill." "It was unbelievable!" Isn't that how magic should be described, as unbelievable?

I'm not saying I don't battle with this question all the time. In fact, I could change my opinion as early as next week. But now, I'D rather not present this effect as a puzzle of how I got the holes to collect from the 4 corners (Sankey), or turn it inside out along with the toothpick holes that were there before (Close).

Right now, I'd like to present the effect to answer the question, "If I really were magic, what would I do?", which is why I like to have a bill of my own examined and then make it increase.

These are just my thoughts on what has been posted. I think it's great to have the Café to think about our own magic and then share them here and come up with our own conclusions.

As far as answering the question, I really like Ammar's Classic renditions video tape to learn from.

BTW, I believe it was Dan Garrett who had a really neat idea of using the bill switch as a torn and restored bill combined with a mismade bill with tape holding the pieces together. Then he took the tape off to show that it fused together, or something like that. I could go on, but everybody has probably stopped reading by now.

See ya.