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Topic: Magic trick for Holy Ghost
Message: Posted by: interstate_dj (Dec 29, 2005 07:35PM)
Hello,

I am giving a short 5 minute talk to children regarding the Holy Ghost. Does anyone have a trick that you wouldn't mind sharing that could tie into the purpose of the Holy Ghost?

I want to be able to convey a message that the children will remember, and what better way than through magic!!!

Thanks in advance,

Jerry Pierce
Message: Posted by: Thetruthteller (Dec 30, 2005 05:06PM)
Perhaps something built around a Glorpy?
You may not see the Holy Ghost but his presence can be detected.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Dec 30, 2005 11:38PM)
Perhaps also something about the HS's role as helper/teacher. Or the section in Acts about receiving power when the HGhost comes upon you.
Message: Posted by: interstate_dj (Dec 31, 2005 10:44AM)
I mainly need visual effects that tie in the purpose. Another forum memember recommended the crystal tube where three individual silks enter the tube and are blown out of the other end tied together representing each individual Father, Son, and Holy Ghost but one in purpose.

I thought that was a great visualization.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Dec 31, 2005 11:00AM)
Jerry,

The Crystal Tube has been mentioned here a few times before with that application, so it appears you may not have used the Café's search engine. If you have not done so, give that a try - you may come up with quite a bit of helpful information that has been posted over the last few years.

Mark
Message: Posted by: carolina illusionist (Dec 31, 2005 11:44AM)
Duane Laflin does a great presentation of the Trinity using 20th Century silks. It is on one of his tapes. I used it many times this past summer in Romania. It is extremely visual.

Michael
Message: Posted by: interstate_dj (Dec 31, 2005 05:14PM)
Sorry Mark, but when I attempted a search on the topic, it gave me invalid results. That is the reason I started this thread because I could not find a relevant search result.

Sometimes we have to start over even though others are aware of the same topic being in the forums.

Michael,

Thanks for your suggestion as well.
Message: Posted by: Daniel Faith (Jan 3, 2006 10:26AM)
I use Healed and Sealed for this.
Message: Posted by: Magic Arty (Jan 7, 2006 08:55PM)
I used the old stamp album trick. The theme of being filled with the Holy Spirit to fullness to have the power to do the work God the Father has set for us to do through his son Jesus.
I talk about how I may look good on the outside, but on the inside I am blank. Christ in me gives me fullness of life, (golly life itself!) and purpose. The Holy Spirit is the impowerment of that fullness life and purpose. They all go together, You cannot have one without the other. The stamps now fill the book.
I then talk about the stamp and it's purpose. " You can write a wonderfull letter to your best friend, but without the stamp it aint going nowhere. So the same without the Holy Spirit working in you. You can say all the right things, but without his Indwelling, it aint going to do anything.
Arthur Atsma
Message: Posted by: leftytheclown (Jan 30, 2006 03:54PM)
I use a "DT" for a color changing silk routine using Is 1:18 "Come let us reason...". Upon completion of the change, I ask, "How does God do this? Then I mention that only the Holy Spirit can draw a person to God.
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Feb 2, 2006 04:07PM)
Richard Osterlind's "Solid Ghost" would be an interesting effect.

You could speak of the white Handkerchief as being God the Trinity, and when we need to hear that still small voice, fold the handkerchief as per the instructions and as the handkerchief "forms" the "object" which can be tapped with a spoon or other hard object to make a sound, then you can whisk away teh handkerchief and shows that it was all part of God the Trinity.

Solid Ghost is unlike a Glorpy or haunted hank. The spectactor can actually "touch" the solid object formed under it. And yet is goes away as clean as a Glorpy. I had worned out a couple of Glorpies over the years. And they were pretty amazing, but Solid Ghost stands alone and might play better for this type of an effect.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: noumena (Feb 2, 2006 04:31PM)
Isn't anyone worried that such presentations as mentioned above will likely create a false understanding of an already widely misunderstood doctrine? The Holy Spirit does not have a body or physical presence. The Holy Spirit is not a force. Rather, the Holy Spirit is a Person of the Trinity. Theologians have broken down the Ministry of the Holy Spirit into three different aspects.

1. The Work of Inspiration
2. The Work of Synergy (not to be confused with synergism)
3. Testimony

The Holy Spirit moved the men that wrote the Bible so that it would be the inerrant Word of God. The Holy Spirit also works with (creates a synergy) the Word of God, so that we may say that the Spirit speaks through God’s word. The Holy Spirit also testifies to man through God’s Gospel giving us the only way to move from “believing that” to “believing in” the Gospel. The Spirit was sent to glorify Christ (John 16:14). Shouldn’t any presentation concerning the Holy Spirit then illustrate this biblical teaching?

Just a thought,
Brandon Cross
Message: Posted by: calamari (Feb 2, 2006 06:12PM)
I am not sure this is the way to go (magic to represent the Holy Spirit) but if I remember correctly (raised in the chirch and eight years of private religious school) one of the first representations of the Holy Spirit was when John the Babtist, babtised Jesus and a dove landed on the head of christ, (or something to that effect) I think if I was a kid and heard that story and you produced a dove at that moment..1. I would never forget it and 2. I might need a change of underware. but I would still be a little uncomfortable with this or any presentation of magic when it comes to the Holy Spirit only because I was raised to be very reverent when it comes to God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Message: Posted by: Magic Arty (Feb 8, 2006 12:36PM)
Brandon, I agree with you that there should be worry on teaching on this topic. To think that one could even begin to encompas the vastness of the Godhead in a simple five minute routine that is using sleight of hand is silly, and should be approcahed with fear and trembling.
The Holy Spirit is even much greater than the summation of 1>inspiration 2>work of synergy 3>testimony.
The Holy Spirit is fully God as is the Father, and Jesus is.
When I think on it I realize how lame any explanation, definition, or description is that I can give! I can, however tell you that I know Him, and His presence is more than real! He has no begining and no end, He has a plan for your and my life!
Blessings,
Arthur Atsma
Message: Posted by: noumena (Feb 8, 2006 02:57PM)
Arthur,

Thanks for input. Just to clarify, I did not say that the Holy Spirit's greatness was limited to inspiration, synergy and testimony. I did say that the Holy Spirit's ministry is limited to those things mentioned. This is nothing new and has been the standard teaching of the church since the Apostles. For example, God the father's ministy as well as the Holy Spirit's ministry is limited in the sense that it does not include dying on the cross for the sins of the world.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been such a thing of confussion I think it is important to make such clarifications. Moreover, such clarifications should be pressent in our presentations. We should bring clarity not confussion.

- Brandon Cross
Message: Posted by: noumena (Feb 8, 2006 03:00PM)
I forgot to mention that the Holy Spirit was not represented as a dove. Rather, the Scriptures teach that they manner in which the Holy Spirit decended on Christ was like a dove. The social context as well as the greek wording indicate that the Holy Spirit did not look like a dove nor was represented by one or as one, rather that the Spirit of God was graceful towards Christ. Just another clarification I think is important.

- Brandon Cross
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Feb 8, 2006 03:45PM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-08 16:00, noumena wrote:
I forgot to mention that the Holy Spirit was not represented as a dove. Rather, the Scriptures teach that they manner in which the Holy Spirit decended on Christ was like a dove. The social context as well as the greek wording indicate that the Holy Spirit did not look like a dove nor was represented by one or as one, rather that the Spirit of God was graceful towards Christ. Just another clarification I think is important.

- Brandon Cross
[/quote]

Brandon:

Are you saying that John did not see some type of physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit? While not directly stating it was a literal dove, the Scripture indicates that there was some type of "bodily form" present that descended on Jesus (Luke 3:22). This seems to indicate more than your term "graceful."

Terry
Message: Posted by: noumena (Feb 8, 2006 06:38PM)
Terry,

Thanks for the reply, however please be careful not to read anything into what I said. I did not say that John did not see a bodily form. The verse says "like a dove", not as a dove. The greek text is quite clear as are many contemporary english translations (NIV, NASB, NRSV, ext).

Moreover, what I am saying is nothing more that what the vast majority of biblical scholars and theologians have said through the entire history of the church. I am not saying anything new, nor am I saying anything different than what the Scriptures say.

I hope that makes sense and is clear. Often discussions on these topics require a lot of clarification and detail.

- Brandon Cross
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Feb 8, 2006 06:53PM)
Brandon:

I'm just questioning the concept of "graceful," as I see no mention of this in the greek text. I'm interested to know how you came to that conclusion.

Also, it appears to me that the "bodily form" that appeared "as a dove" points to the fact that it looked like a dove, although it may have not been a literal dove. Your original post seemed to point us away from a physical manifestation. The Scripture indicates that this physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit was the clincher for John in realizing that Christ was the Son of God (John 1:32-34).

Terry
Message: Posted by: noumena (Feb 8, 2006 07:39PM)
Terry,

Sorry for the confussion and misleading you. That was not my intent at all. I'll stop from the theology talk in a forum for magic. Theology has never been well recieved on here, I think it was a mistake of mine in the first place. I really need to learn to keep my mouth shut around here. If you are honestly interested PM me and I'd be happy to talk theology.

- Brandon Cross
Message: Posted by: revlovejoy (Feb 8, 2006 08:08PM)
Brandon, I for one thoroughly enjoy deep theological content. But then, I'm a Lutheran with an MDiv, so that's kind of my thing. ;)

Please don't feel chased away. People are reading but not posting, who apprciate this.

As to whether theology isn't well received in a Gospel magic board, that would be unfortunate. Too much American theology is a mile wide and an inch deep. I would hope you continue to contribute here.
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Feb 8, 2006 08:14PM)
Brandon:

I enjoy theology. As you well know, "orthodoxy precedes orthopraxy." My book was written with that thought in mind. But I agree that it is probably best to stay away from it in a magic forum - especially if we don't want the thread to be locked.

Not that theology's not received well here, but when brought up, the diversity of theological perspective will naturally lead to questioning; and individuals like myself are usually interested to see why someone believes what they do.

So since I'm still interested in your interpretation of the Scripture as posted, I'll PM you as suggested.

Terry
Message: Posted by: sdgiu (Feb 13, 2006 07:02AM)
Hey Guys
I don't usually wade in on Deep Theological thought type conversations, but I have enjoyed what I have read here, and I "Really" appreciate how you are all handling what in other areas of the Café, would have turned into an all out "war of words" by now. This is how Christians "Should" be acting. Thank you.

As I said before, there is some Really Good stuff here. I will come back to read it from time to time. Takes me back to my "Bible College" years.

I said all that, to say this, we are possibly missing something here. My question is, How old are these children that we are about to boggle with these deep theological principles?

This is a subject that is very near and dear to me, as one of our past youth ministers was a divinity student, and a Great guy who the kids all loved. I had only one real issue with him, in his teachings. He felt that since these kids had all grown up in Church, that they should be Deep in the word and the deeper Theological meanings it provided.

Not to brag, but my kids were homeschooled and could probably stand up to any adult in our church in Bible knowledge. (All their mothers doing, although I had an active part in our homeschool, I was the principal and ok'd everything :lol: my wife actually did most(all) the work.)

The Youth minister Now a Dr o'Div, put out thigs that were so far over their heads that they got discouraged, because they thought he must be right, after all he was their teacher.

Jesus, the Greatest teacher who ever lived, put things simply, in terms that could Easily be understood by everyone.

At some time in their lives everyone Needs to understand the Principles discussed here in this thread. But at present, these kids(depending on their age group) may just need to understand that the Holy Ghost isn't really a Ghost.

For this, I suggest using a zombie with a white cloth, and talking about how this is "just a trick" and that there are no real Ghosts, and then if you feel they can handle more, go into a simplified version of some of the principles explained so eloquently earlier in this thread. There are several things that several people hit on, that, in a simplified version would be excellent, take your pick.

God Bless
Steve
Message: Posted by: triadsong (Feb 13, 2006 09:46AM)
Children need visual. The Holy Spirit (and, for that matter, the Full Mystery of God) cannot be put into any visual that will be 100% accurate. We can never tell the full story or explain God. So, don't worry about limiting the vastness of God into a 5 minute illusion. Just do the best job with the image you have at hand. Everyone will eventually understand that there is a lot more there than our human minds can fathom.

One image to consider. The words that both the Greeks (pneuma) and Hebrews (ruah) used for Spirit more accurately translate into 'breath.' What a wonderful image that the Holy Spirit is God's Breath. Check out Gen 2:7 - the Second story of Creation where God forms the man and "breathes into his nostrils the breath of life literally meaning that God's Spirit dwells in us, gives us life and leads us.

In my work with children I have found that they adore this image of the Holy Spirit. I think its a good direction fo us to pursue in developing a trick or two to help us explain and lead others to live the mystery.

God bless all,
Vinny
Message: Posted by: revlovejoy (Feb 13, 2006 11:37AM)
I've used a ghost glass with just that theme of spirit as wind, breath.

Thanks Vinny!
Message: Posted by: triadsong (Feb 13, 2006 02:39PM)
Now that's a cool idea. Thank you!

Vinny
Message: Posted by: Magic Arty (Feb 13, 2006 10:19PM)
Vinny:
Thanks for your words, I found them encouraging.
Arthur
Message: Posted by: triadsong (Feb 14, 2006 06:55AM)
Thank you, Arthur. God Bless and continued success -- especially with your Stress Awareness presentations. Lord knows we can all use less stress!
Vinny
Message: Posted by: Magic Arty (Feb 16, 2006 11:40AM)
Vinny, Thanks.
The Lord does know we need less stress! I'm glad he carries our burdens.
Arthur
Message: Posted by: neoreform (Feb 16, 2006 01:57PM)
Wow, the ghost glass is a great idea!
Message: Posted by: BenBrad (Feb 24, 2006 01:48PM)
Since we are talking about the Holy Spirit why not use the spirit slates (a dealer item). Now before anyone starts cautioning me about a possible occult message please hear me out. The Holy Spirit testifies of the Deity of Christ. Remember that Jesus told Peter that he could not have known that Jesus is the Messiah except that the Holy Spirit has revealed it to him. Also the Bible was written by men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Anyway, to the trick. Use two spirit slates of a size large enough for whatever audience you may have. There is a lot of latitude for different messages here but ideally you may show them blank and face them together using rubber bands, silks (which could be used in another effect), or anything appropriate to your message. You can place a piece of chalk between them if you like. You may then speak about whatever subject you would like to tie in here but I think I would talk about the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to us and bringing our once dead spirits to life by revealing to us the Light Of The World, "Jesus". Simple, and to a lay audience amazing. For effect you could draw a heart and later reveal the name "Jesus" written inside it.