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Topic: TT color doesn't matter, they said...
Message: Posted by: Hammiesink (Jan 2, 2006 10:53AM)
My TT is SLIGHTLY darker than my skin. Of course, all I ever hear are anecdotes about magicians using black TTs made out of metal with pink pokadots and the audience still doesn't see them. So I go to perform a simple vanishing silk for some friends, and after the trick they are all very suspicious and seem to know exactly what's going on. I'm caught, in other words. They demand to see the false T I'm wearing. Two of them state that the first thing they noticed was that my thumb was a different color.


I think I was performing it correctly. Keeping the thumb pointed toward the audience. Moving my hands quickly, never letting it be visible for long, etc, etc.
Message: Posted by: Doughlas (Jan 2, 2006 11:15AM)
My guess would be maybe you moved your hands to quickly which led them to believe something was up. It's hard to say without seeing your act. I've used a TT for years and never been caught...I think a big part of using a TT is to be natural. Forget you're wearing it, and you'll be even more at ease during your performance.
Message: Posted by: Platt (Jan 2, 2006 11:43AM)
The TT is far and away the best magic prop ever invented. I use it all the time(a very dark discolored one) and have only been busted once by someone who was looking for it. If your friends all saw the TT, you were definitely doing something wrong. You might want to try pulling the thumb out with TT and using that hand to openly wave over closed hand. All attention will be on closed hand.
Message: Posted by: Corey Harris (Jan 2, 2006 12:09PM)
If you get busted with it, then you aren't using proper technique with it.
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Jan 2, 2006 12:39PM)
Yeah, back to the drawing board man. Study hard, practice relentlessly, and do not rely on fast movement to conceal it. There is some realy good stuff out there on the subject and it seems to me by your writing that you haven't found it yet. Keep up the good work.
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jan 2, 2006 01:28PM)
If I see a black person perform with a white TT , the first thing ill see is the white thumb.. IT doesn't matter then that he is performing the routine correctly for 200%.... .U can try a lighter TT HammieSink.
Message: Posted by: Corey Harris (Jan 2, 2006 01:35PM)
If you are peforming a TT routine correctly then you wont even flash the TT. Check out Losanders TT work, He has some great tips when it comes to working with one.
Message: Posted by: Gideon Sylvan (Jan 2, 2006 01:37PM)
There are a lot of people that have sometime in their lives seen the TT and thus know about it. I've found that so many magicians have all these theories that they live by and spread on the forums, many are wrong. The thumb tip is widly known, and because of that I rarly use it. I use it for one routine, but it is only out in the open for a second before it is ditched into my pocket. Listen to what other magicians say, but don't let it cloud your mind.
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jan 2, 2006 01:45PM)
The TT is strong, but its nonsense that people blame the performer, while they don't even know how good or bad he did it. The TT is a good prop, but also a widely known 1. ANd corey, if I don't even flash the TT I know he is hiding 1 finger. I hate that 2 handed display it feels like youre hiding sumthing. IT can just happen that some1 flashes a move or prop, it isn't always because the eprformer is bad.
Message: Posted by: stormchaser (Jan 2, 2006 02:41PM)
On 2006-01-02 13:09, Corey Harris wrote:
If you get busted with it, then you aren't using proper technique with it.
Yes. The only time I ever got busted with my TT was when I did it slightly wrong, and they still thought it was just a band-aid.
Message: Posted by: Billy Bo (Jan 2, 2006 02:52PM)
Michael Ammar performs the $100 bill switch with a red tt
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jan 2, 2006 03:03PM)
You miss my point. WHat I mean is there are people that know the thumb tip
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jan 2, 2006 03:24PM)
The TT is flesh tone, is supposed the blend to some degree and allow you can move as free as possible. If it's too dark then some additional methods of concealing it may be necessary.

The soft TTs tend to darken with time and there's not much you can do about it except buy a new one.

The harder ones are somewhat transparent and easier to clean.
I'm not sure this works but one tip I read for lightening this type was to color the inside a light color.

I agree that the TT is widely known and if you do the silk or cigarette vanish there's that chance you'll be caught because that's what many duffers do. Learning to handle it differently and including such vanishes in a routine can thwart discovery too.
Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jan 2, 2006 03:38PM)
Jaz, I couldn't agree more... 100% right
Message: Posted by: Cory Gallupe (Jan 2, 2006 04:09PM)
Those people who use purple tt, how would they do that? "Here are my empty hands" while they kkep the thumb under the hand, then show the other side and bend the thumb back. It would be sooo unatural.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jan 2, 2006 04:40PM)
On 2006-01-02 17:09, themagicman101 wrote:
Those people who use purple tt, how would they do that? "Here are my empty hands" while they kkep the thumb under the hand, then show the other side and bend the thumb back. It would be sooo unatural.

Don't stick your hands in their face!
The last thing you want to do is a gesture that says, "Here are my empty hands". If the routine is done smoothly there will be no need to prove anything.
Yes. Even a red tip can work.
Message: Posted by: PhatDad (Jan 2, 2006 04:57PM)
'Look at my hands, they are empty, the reason I am showing you that they are empty is because I'm hiding something and therefore trying to prove to you fine folks that there is nothing at all in my hands hidden anywhere. errrrr why are you looking so intently at my hands?'
Message: Posted by: Lee Darrow (Jan 2, 2006 05:37PM)
Read the book Okito On Magic. He came up with a method that fooled EVERY magician in Chicago.

I won't tip it here, but I'm sure that once you read it, you'll put your finger on the right method, right away!

Lee Darrow, C.H.
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Jan 2, 2006 06:11PM)
I at times wear the tt around the house doing chores just to feel what it's like for the tt to be a part of my thumb. So you feel natural with it and if you feel at ease, no one will know your wearing a tt. Also Darwin has some useful tips in Darwin's Encyclopedia of Thumb Tip Magic (3 DVDs).
Message: Posted by: Cory Gallupe (Jan 2, 2006 06:57PM)
Yes, I know not to put much attention on your hands. But they will be looking. Not at your thumb, but at your hands. And with a purple tt, they would notice. Whenever I do something with a tt, I only show the tip of the thumb in a natural fasion. But if it where red, or purple, or whatever, they would see that. And if you were going to hide your thumb the whole time, it would look unnatural.
Message: Posted by: toonomads (Jan 2, 2006 07:07PM)
TTs are basically camouflaged but are not absolutely invisible. They can be seen from the side but head-on they are not so visible but I suggest only a brief glimpse. Certain routines completely conceal the TT.

You might check out Salvano's video explaining his use of TTs.
Message: Posted by: Doughlas (Jan 2, 2006 07:09PM)
I must agree with themagicman101 on this one point. To go out and use a purple TT on purpose is a poor idea, I always use one that is within a couple of shades of my own skin color. However, at one point about 18 years ago, I was doing a cabaret show, doing 2 shows a day. One night when preparing for my routine I noticed my TT had gotten too close to another prop and it turned GREEN! I still did my whole routine even using the green TT. Because I was comfortable with using a TT I was still able to pull off the routine, but I also quickly went out and bought a new one. No reason to tempt fate if you don't have too.
Message: Posted by: Corey Harris (Jan 2, 2006 07:23PM)
Let me ask this. When you do a coin vanish like a french drop or a vanish of that nature, do you show both your hands? I know I don't. This goes to something I have said before on here. Believe in what you are doing. Believe it is in your hand when you already have it snatched away. Your spectators will look where you are looking. Like I also said. Check out losanders TT work. He fried a group of magicians here in KC a couple years back because of subtlies that he uses.
Message: Posted by: Hammiesink (Jan 2, 2006 09:49PM)
You're right. I don't show both hands after a sleight in cups and balls and such. ***it. I should practice this stuff without the gimmicks to start mimicking reality better.

Incidentally, does Losander sell a DVD or something about the TT? I couldn't find anything on his site.
Message: Posted by: Corey Harris (Jan 2, 2006 10:09PM)
Unfortuneatly. I need to learn to spell..lol. He doesn't have one dedicated to the TT. The dvd I have of his is an impromptu dvd and he does a lot of TT work on it. He is very smooth with it. THings he teaches with it you wouldnt believe is possible until you try it.
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Jan 2, 2006 11:11PM)
I once was talking about TTs with a magician while doing table magic at a restaurant. I told him I would show him some tricks after the talk. One was with a TT and that is the one he asked how I did....????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: calexa (Jan 3, 2006 05:37AM)
I canonly make a guess:maybe you performed correctly, but I can imagine that you brought the attention of the spectators towards your thump. Maybe there was a slight irritation in how you looked at your hands, or you moved your thump in a strange way. Using a TT seems easy, but it requires practice.

Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jan 3, 2006 06:39AM)
On 2006-01-02 20:23, Corey Harris wrote:
Let me ask this. When you do a coin vanish like a french drop or a vanish of that nature, do you show both your hands? I know I don't. This goes to something I have said before on here. Believe in what you are doing. Believe it is in your hand when you already have it snatched away. Your spectators will look where you are looking. Like I also said. Check out losanders TT work. He fried a group of magicians here in KC a couple years back because of subtlies that he uses.

that is comparing apples with Pears. THose are 2 completely different things.
With a french drop I use the sublety Greg WIlson uses in his in action tapes and that works perfect:D
Message: Posted by: wayno (Jan 4, 2006 08:18AM)
[quote]Two of them state that the first thing they noticed was that my thumb was a different color.[/quote]

I am sure you have caught on by now, that your thumb should remain concealed when you have a tip on it. Unless you lucked out and found a perfect colour. But then you'll just learn bad habits with it. I'm speaking from experience. One of my first tips was an exact match to my skin color. I lost it and was never able to get anything near again. And had to unlearn all the habits I formed while using it.

Just remember, thumb tips can be manipulated. They do not have to stay on your thumb. You can transfer them to a finger and employ concealment moves/subtleties (think hank ball manipulation), you can finger palm them, you can do so much with them.

There is more to it than putting one on, stuffing a silk in it, and showing your audience that it has vanished.

Wayne Stevenson
The SpookClub
Message: Posted by: Brian Morgan (Jan 4, 2006 09:33AM)
I think why some laymen look for a TT is because many people have seen the vanish and/or production of a silk using the TT. I believe it's the hardest trick to get away with because of the knowledge people have about the TT. On the other hand I think most any other effect using a TT is great because people aren't expecting to see salt come out of your hand, or change, or whatever suits you.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jan 4, 2006 04:42PM)
Is anyone actually is saying to use a red or purple or chrome TT??
I doubt it!
What is demonstrated by using these off color TTs is that it can be done.

When your TT is too dark or too light then you can still use it.
A little extra care and misdirection will help.
Just don't say, "Hey! Look No TT!"
Message: Posted by: Cory Gallupe (Jan 4, 2006 06:52PM)
This is what I think. Get a TT fairly close to your thumb color. No need to have it way off when you don't need to.
Message: Posted by: Matt Malinas (Jan 5, 2006 11:27AM)
I never cared for the color. a little misdirection plus I watch my angles and I never had any problems.
TT's are nice but people always tend to rush into using them. and this is why they fail.

Message: Posted by: Face (Jan 6, 2006 05:55AM)
Mine is also...my skin is so white and TT is way more darker, but I have never been caughed. You also have to use correct technique ;)
Message: Posted by: accolombel (Jan 11, 2006 11:32PM)
It is interesting that the OP was talking about a TT that is too dark. Being African-American myself the problem is TTs that are too light. (which is most of them). I use it in my act and for impromptu(vanished a kleenex and vanish a burning cigerette) and have not been caught. As the others said technique is the key. Also don't go waving your hands like you are signaling the fleet. At first to make myself feel better I dyed it with coffee to get it darker, now I just use it and don't go through fits trying to hide it.
But after all that sometimes you may get caught. Just figure out why and keep going.

Message: Posted by: mstick85 (Jan 12, 2006 08:44PM)
I just did a little performance for a birthday get-together at work today. I did the Patrick Page Silk and Bill vanish and absolutely amazed them. I was practically surrounded, too.

I think one of the keys is to be smooth and natural in your movements. Don't do something that will call attention to what you are doing. Perhaps you need to learn a new routine with your TT. One that uses the tip in a different way, perhaps.

I highly recommend Page's Thumbtip dvd. There is something for everyone on that dvd, and he presents them in a way that you can learn the routine. I wouldn't give it up!

Message: Posted by: jgravelle (Jan 12, 2006 09:58PM)
David Williamson has a fantastic silk disappearance with a TT and a wand-assisted vanish/ditch. It's a great "I could have SWORN he used a TT" effect that'll leave 'em scratching their heads.


Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Jan 14, 2006 01:38PM)
In almost 100% of the cases in which I was 'caught' with my TT I was not in fact caught. What happens is that a lot of folks now KNOW about the TT and simply ACT as if they have caught you! I tested this out in various ways in the 30 years I ran magic shops and have come to the conclusion that I am right in this assertion.

Folks are not stupid and most times would like you to believe that they legitimately busted you. Don't believe it. Don't get into an argument about it, but don't believe it. I have had dozens of friends of color that have used the thumb tips we are all familiar with for years and years without being busted so that has to tell you something.

Also....DON'T mover your hands quickly! Move them NATURALLY! Push the silk into your L.H. and then steal the TT on to you Thumb and then push into the L.H. a couple more times using differing fingers of the R.H. Drop your R.H. in a natural relaxed manner (DO NOT try to turn it away from the audience!) and raise the L.H. while looking at it. Place your attention on the HOT HAND...that's the hand which IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE SILK. The R.H. ceases to exsist in your mind. Go from there.

Rapid movement focuses attention where in fact you don't want it. Relax and don't worry about being busted. If you are worried micro movements in our body will tend to point at the place of paranoia (the gimmick) and not where you need the attention focused: The hand that will open in a moment to show that the silk has in fact vanished. All best,
Message: Posted by: Foucault (Jan 17, 2006 08:58PM)
I've got to agree with Corey that Losander's TT work on his "Magic Anytime...Anywhere!" DVD is amazing. It really has me rethinking the TT. He credits Salvano for teaching him the subtleties he uses. I'd love to see Salvano's work too.
Message: Posted by: johnwolfe (Jan 17, 2006 09:20PM)
One thing to work on when using the TT or when palming any object is to keep your wrist loose. Many people feel very self-consious when in that position and one of the tell-tale signs is a stiff wrist or a cramped lookin hand. Relax in your movements.

In the Tarbell Course he talks about naturalness of movement as being key to any successful slieght. Do your vanish without the TT and the silk and look at your hands in the mirror to see how you would act under normal circumstances. When you show the hand empty and point the TT toward the audience, don't make that a separate move, do is as a jesture to punctuate a part of your patter. You don't have to try to "prove" that your hand is empty. Let them draw that conclusion through the naturalness of your movements.
Message: Posted by: george kaye (Jan 20, 2006 02:01AM)
Dear Chums,
In the old days TTs were made of metal and they were not meant to be seen. Some enterprising soul decided to make them look like a thumb and make them flesh coloured 'just in case somebody glimpsed it'! Now you can buy TT's that look so real people would scream if you dropped it on the dinner table (body-parts R us!).
Dye tubes are flesh coloured - but you're not suposed to see them! Why insist on showing people your TT so they don't see it.
Irrespective of colour, there are several ways those who know of TT's detect their presence. 1, When you load the TT into your fist. 2, When the last 'poke' into your fist is with your thumb! (big give away!) 3. That awful move where you thrust your hand, tips first, at them. If anybody wants to know how to eliminate these probs drop me an e-mail!
Even if a punter knows of TT's, and many do, you can still fool them with one if you do not signal its presence.
Finally. Some people are polite! Just because they don't tell you they spotted your TT doesn't mean that they didn't.
Cheers dears,