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Topic: Masterminds series, new kind of exposure?
Message: Posted by: Liquid (Jan 4, 2006 06:42AM)
Hi,
First let me say that I love Criss Angel's work. I'm always amazed when I see him performing, and he his a great contributor to magic as you all probably agree.
But let's take a close look at the Masterminds series. He sells effects that he performs on TV, on is website, wich means that any laymen can buy this products. Isn't this just some kind of indirectly exposing secrets? Even if the effect is marketed and people pay for it, isn't exposure to advertise this on TV specials, and sell it to fans and general public, on your own website if you are a celebrity magician? One think is to teach some kind of amateur effect to the people at home, other think is to sell elaborated material, using sleights and concepts of magic like sh***ll (levitation).
I'd like to hear your opinion about this.

Regards
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Jan 4, 2006 08:33AM)
Yeah, cause it's such a new aproach. It's not exposure mostly because it requires more than just a rudimentary action on the part of the student. I'm pretty much OK with that. To me exposure is giveing away many effects in a public broadcast format, Television, Mass Mailing, Internet, etc. The latter two of course are exceptions if some variety of hurdle is present for the student to jump (a test of some variety etc.)
Message: Posted by: jimtron (Jan 4, 2006 03:28PM)
[quote]He sells effects that he performs on TV, on is website , wich means that any laymen can buy this products.[/quote]
Any layman can buy any magic effect, book, or video that is for sale. If someone wants to learn secrets of magic, all they have to do is go the library, local magic store, or Google "magic tricks." And why shouldn't they learn the secrets, if they do so by legal means (ie, buying a book or video of effect, or checking a book out of the library.)

I don't think this is new. There have been effects for sale that were shown on TV for decades.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 4, 2006 04:02PM)
The basic question of how to keep muggles from making collages out of Marlo and Harbin books may need to wait a bit.

As to selling current magic methods to muggles... I wish folks would not do that.
Message: Posted by: edh (Jan 4, 2006 09:56PM)
Jonathan, I don't think that will happen.
Message: Posted by: troller (Jan 4, 2006 10:38PM)
I think there are two schools of magic. The lower ranks which anyone can learn. And then there is the upper class which is pricey and probably takes skill and preperation/practice to get it right.

Now when performing magic, I see that people get annoyed if you don't show them how it's done. They sometimes call you names, call you cheap, and basically become your worst enemy if you don't reveal.

I see that Lance Burton and David Copperfield each give away some magic on their web sites. And it's for free!!! Of corse it's not something that one would consider mind blowing magic, but it's a start.

Magic seems to be something that needs to be shared in both experience of the spectator, and experience of performing some on other people. Providing people with a means to get into magic is not a bad thing. And opportunity is there for anyone to take up the sport!

Preventing people from gaining knowledge is also a terrible thing to do. So why not give people an opportunity to also get into magic, no matter how small their involvement, it's all good in the end. And not everyone has the patients or the skill to persue such a wonder art. And everyday there are new people out there in the world who would enjoy seeing a magician perform. Only a few of those spectators will actually persue how things are done. And they have every right to do so. Your job is to find people that that don't know a thing about it. And perform your heart out to them. Of course you could also try and fool the magician which is equally fun.

Criss is contributing to the whole magical experience and not hindering it. That is why he does tricks that are out of this world. Most people think it's TV magic. If you look closely, and read enough material on magic, you will see that he does a lot of old magic with a new spin. And I can't wait for next years episodes.

Final note... most magicians feel that they are the only ones on this earth that are qualified to learn magic and feel that anyone else, including beginners don't deserve even a shred of knowledge in magic. Get over it. There is a new breed of magicians coming your way.. prepare to be blown away. And stop trying to prevent people from participating.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 5, 2006 06:45AM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-04 23:38, troller wrote:...Magic seems to be something that needs to be shared in both experience of the spectator, and experience of performing some on other people. ...[/quote]

Time to end the cycle of abuse. Try "for" intead of "on".
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Jan 5, 2006 12:03PM)
Troller, your screen name is dead on. That is the single most uninformed post I have ever seen. I haven't met a magician yet that feels the way you discribe. There is a huge difference between teaching and exposure. Blanket exposure does one and only one thing, it makes bad performances.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Jan 24, 2006 11:01AM)
Here's one that agrees with Troller. Why is it that once WE get in on the hobby, we immediately want to keep everyone else out?

Magic does NOT belong to us. We belong to Magic. The newbie that gets into magic by following Angel's website to learn their first effects has as much right to learn their first tricks as YOU did when you learned yours.

Now, this is hard to understand, but 99.9% of the public just doesn't care anything about the field of magic...They care about breakfast, and paying the rent, and finding their other sock. They can't remember jack when it comes to HOW thngs are done, and can't remember, in any kind of detail, anything about the trick you just did 10 minutes ago. However, the kid that is into magic, whether for a lifetime OR FOR A FEW YEARS, has every right to access the field. Not thru blatent exposure (tho that gets the kid's attention) but through an open path to the field of magic.

Some would claim that teaching a Birthday Party Magic class to be blatent exposure, since most of the kids wouldn't end up doing all the tricks taught...Others would claim that you are 'trolling' for would-be magicians, future masters of the art.

And Troller is most correct: There is a new breed of magicians coming our way, and the result will be that, in defense, Magic Secrets will once again be secret, passed from person to person. Can't wait. Then, magicians will be able to be blown away by magic again, as spectators, since they won't be able to freely access the methods.. And the value of Secrets will be again known.

As Troller said, we'd best be ready to be blown away. It's a new and very different generation, and the future of magic is in THEIR hands.
Message: Posted by: entity (Jan 31, 2006 12:32PM)
Tom:

You seem to contradict yourself in the above post.

On the one hand you say that Troller is correct, and that anyone should have access to the secrets of Magic.

Then you conclude by saying that the new breed of Magicians will keep the secrets of Magic, and a new value for secrets will be realized.

If the current generation should be able to get whatever they want, freely, how is it that they will come to value what they've got without effort, price or time and energy?

I feel that Magic is, by its very nature, exclusive. I deceive you because I know something that you do not. Exclusivity is not a bad thing in some situations. People must earn the right to attend Law School; Medical Students must earn the right to attend classes on surgical techniques. Strangers aren't allowed to walk in off of the street to learn the proper way to fill a tooth.

Why do so many magic hobbyists feel that more Magicians are a good thing? More magicians mean the audience of people that can truly be amazed is smaller. From a Professional's point of view, more Magicians means less opportunity for work for all of them. Magic isn't like music, where you can have it on in the background for most of the day and enjoy it while going about your other business. Magic demands attention. People are only able to give so much of that attention.

Magic is a special treat. If it is offered everywhere by hoards of Magicians, it ceases to become special.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Mark Storms (Feb 1, 2006 03:26PM)
Time to put my two cents in. I have to begin by saying that I am one of the most ruthless guardians of magic secrets and the art that I know. Part of the reason why is that some of what we do is extremely simple as far as mechanics go but at the same time people imagine that it is Extremely difficult. If they then see that it is not so difficult mechanically they tend to devalue magic. I have realised that my views are somewhat selfish. I have since come to realise that magic is everywhere and that it is readily available for anyone that wants to get into it. Most people just don't know where to look. My new opinion is, let those who sincerely want to learn, learn. Those who want to just know secrets need not apply.
Message: Posted by: Stinkfist (Feb 10, 2006 08:58PM)
I can't deal with the fact that criss said on national television "by this trick off my website,learn the secret",and the show's before that he tells the audience what he is doing is "the real thing". I don't get it.
Message: Posted by: Steven Leung (Feb 11, 2006 12:05PM)
Well, sadly speaking, I heard that Masterminds series are sold at US$1 in China web site. Now, the whole china young people can levitate any time, any where they want.

So, do not perform levitation in China, to save your time and energy!
Message: Posted by: bitterman (Feb 20, 2006 03:40PM)
Once you move off the coast, US$1 is a pretty high price to pay for a DVD in China. I don't think we have to worry about waves and waves of levitating Chinese anytime soon, unless Doug Henning comes back in Chung Tu and this TM stuff turns out not to be a crock.
Message: Posted by: Jeff J. (Mar 8, 2006 08:21AM)
Ambitious Card Freak said:
"Well, sadly speaking, I heard that Masterminds series are sold at US$1 in China web site. Now, the whole china young people can levitate any time, any where they want.

So, do not perform levitation in China, to save your time and energy!"

You can add Canada to that list. It is being rented by an online DVD rental service similar to Netflix. (See my thread in this section)