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Topic: When good tapes go bad
Message: Posted by: blindbo (Jan 7, 2006 11:01AM)
I have two videos in my library that will no longer play.
It doesn't seem that there are warranties on them, but they don't perform as they were intended to.
If they were lost, well that's my problem and I would expect to repurchase if I wanted to maintain them in my library. But they were not lost - just won't work.
Books don't suddenly have their words disappear.
This problem is unique to recorded media.
I'll probably just look around for these to come up used someplace, but wanted to post this to hear what others thought about it.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jan 7, 2006 11:05AM)
I hear you Blindbo. With DVD the problem has been fixed to some extent. I also have a large collection of sports and magic tapes that I worry about. I don't think it's considered unethical(even by the most adamant among us) to make backup copies of your magic tapes for your own use. That may be something you want to do with your remaining tapes. Or have them converted to DVD. That what I intend to do with some of my more prized VHS tapes.

Vandy
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 7, 2006 11:13AM)
They say they deteriorate after about ten or fifteen years, if I recall.

I have hundreds of tapes that I recorded off TV years ago, and I surely MUST find a way to convert these to disc so that I can preserve them.


When you say with DVD the problem is resolved somewhat, how do you mean? My impression is that if you take care of a DVd or a CD, not scratching it, or abusing it, it will indeed last forever, because their is no FRICTION involved. Just the laser light.

Am I on the wrong track here? Please let me know.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jan 7, 2006 11:20AM)
When I say "resolved somewhat" I mean that DVD is MUCH better than VHS. But DVDs can be ruined if they are not taken care of, like you said. You are right, if they are properly cared for, you should have no problem. They are a lot better than tape at this point. The future may bring some sort of a hard drive storage system for these things, like on your CPU. But right now I like the DVD format.

Vandy
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 7, 2006 04:41PM)
I did some googling here on the topic, and I was somewhat surprised to find that they tell me the DVds are NOT eternal!

I guess the maximum you can expect they say, is three hundred years..that's OK, I will be LOOOONG gone by then, as will all of us. But still, they don't tel WHAT the enemy is.

By that, I mean, with tapes and vinyl records, we all know the enemy was FRICTION. I can understand that with friction wearing against the source, eventually they would wear out. That is simple physics 101.

But with the advent of the disc, I was under the impression that they had vanquished that foe. 9No tape head, no stylus/needle..just pure light "touching" the surface.

Now considering that a person such as myself could conceivably handle a DVD with "kid gloves" for three hundred years, (were I to live that long), then I could keep the surface free of scratches, and dirt for all that time, (plus I use the "condoms" that they sell for discs), what then could possibly be the nemesis of these DVDs? Consider that if I DID happen to get a scratch , I can go down town to the PC store and get it resurfaced like brand new for under three bucks.

I know it's silly, but I have often wondered about this. I suppose I will never know.

Just ignore me. I'm thinking out loud. I'm exploring mysteries to which man has no answer. I do that often. We call it insanity.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jan 7, 2006 05:19PM)
Don't feel too bad Blindbo.
I've had sections of tape go bad too.

Also, I just recieved a magic DVD this past week and it played fine. A couple of days later I watched it again and at a certain point the thing pixelated, froze and went back to the menu. I tried a couple of more times, tried wiping it to no avail.
Close examination showed a thin scratch. AAArrrghh! No idea how it got scratched.

I prefer books. With those I can quickly access info and read them anywhere, anytime.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 7, 2006 05:47PM)
I wonder if someone could come up with a device to re-surface DVDs at a reasonable price? Kind of like having your brake rotors turned, only something that would work for plastic.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jan 7, 2006 06:03PM)
At my local Staples office supply store, I've seen DVD plastic covers for sale. You slip them on the DVD and you can play them even with the slips on. The slips protect the DVDs from scratches. Or say they say . . . I've never tried them though I've been tempted. I think they were 3 for $5 but I night be wrong about that.


Jack Shalom
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Jan 7, 2006 07:19PM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-07 18:47, Michael Baker wrote:
I wonder if someone could come up with a device to re-surface DVDs at a reasonable price? Kind of like having your brake rotors turned, only something that would work for plastic.
[/quote]

I believe they already sell devices that do that for around $30.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 8, 2006 01:59AM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-07 18:47, Michael Baker wrote:
I wonder if someone could come up with a device to re-surface DVDs at a reasonable price? Kind of like having your brake rotors turned, only something that would work for plastic.
[/quote]

The computer shop around the corner from where I live does exactly that. Under three bucks will get any DVd or Cd completely re-surfaced...all shiny and new.

Posted: Jan 8, 2006 3:00am
Quote:

On 2006-01-07 19:03, landmark wrote:
At my local Staples office supply store, I've seen DVD plastic covers for sale. You slip them on the DVD and you can play them even with the slips on. The slips protect the DVDs from scratches. Or say they say . . . I've never tried them though I've been tempted. I think they were 3 for $5 but I night be wrong about that.

Jack Shalom

The brand I use are called D_skins....But I prefer to call them condoms.

The laser plays right through the clear protector, and scratches are history.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jan 8, 2006 06:55AM)
Thanks for the info. I'll have to look into those DVD repair ideas.
Message: Posted by: Partizan (Jan 8, 2006 07:54AM)
Firstly, DVDs/CDs of a certain age can react with types of vynil/pvc's to create a gas that degrages the disc.
All VALUBLE DVD/CD's should be duplicated and the master stored correctly and only used to remaster.

VHS's come with no guarantee as the lifespan depends on storage and usage and the machine used for playback.

If your VHS's are looking bad then remaster them ASAP. You will need to find someone with a professional VHS machine, It will have a better chance of a good quality playback and will play tapes that most domestic machines will fail.
I have remastered a VHS with mould on the tape itself. I had to clean the whole 60 mins and then rehouse it in a new case before I could even put it into the machine.

A friend of mine masters onto removable hard drives, he works at a place where they scrap a lot of dives so he takes them home and uses them to store his films. He has a stack of over 30 drives, all of them 20gb upto 80gb.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 8, 2006 09:51AM)
I am learning a lot of new stuff here.
Message: Posted by: blindbo (Jan 8, 2006 10:16AM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-08 08:54, Partizan wrote:
Firstly, DVDs/CDs of a certain age can react with types of vynil/pvc's to create a gas that degrages the disc.
All VALUBLE DVD/CD's should be duplicated and the master stored correctly and only used to remaster.
[/quote]

Duplication makes great sense and I have a library of DVD's that I surely don't want to ever lose, but how would I duplicate a copy protected DVD? Seems the legitimate action to prevent piracy also prevents the honest protection of the investment.
The plot thickens...
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Jan 8, 2006 12:59PM)
The copy protection is only good if you don't know how to get around it. There are free programs that do just that and they are so simple to use. Everytime a new copy protection is created there are updates to the programs to get around the protection. Of course, they would only be ok to use if you are backing up DVD's or CD's for your own use.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 8, 2006 03:13PM)
Reminds me of police radar guns..they make them better, then someone comes up with an anti radar device that one ups that, ad infinitum.

Or that Bugs Bunny Cartoon where Elmer pulls a gun on Bugs, so Bugs goes off stage and comes back with a rifle, then Elmer goes off and comes back on with a cannon, and you know the rest! Funny stuff!
Message: Posted by: Partizan (Jan 8, 2006 04:03PM)
A very good and simple program is DVDShrink. This seems to ignore copy protection and region codes.

I do not advocate piracy but something needs to be done to protect our investments.

http://www.dvdshrink.org/
DVD Shrink is free software. You should never pay for DVD Shrink.
[quote]As seen on CNN. Our reviewed DVD Software even Copies Protected DVDs [/quote]
Message: Posted by: brokin6 (Jan 9, 2006 01:00AM)
Also, I would like to add that their is a misconception about copying discs. The law that prohibits copying states that it is illegal to crack the encryption not just copy the movie. As I recall their is a stiffer penalty for cracking the encoding and a youth from Sweden (i believe) was the one who first cracked it and he was in court for quite awhile. The best combination of software I have found have been AnyDvD and Clone dvd used in tandem. Very rarely do I encounter a problem and it is a fast easy four step process. http://www.videohelp.com is a great resource for anyone wanting to learn about DVD structure and copying. Any other questions feel free to P.M. me.
Message: Posted by: blindbo (Jan 9, 2006 06:39AM)
Brokin6, that leaves me quite confused.
It sounds like its illegal any way you slice it, yet you go on to point to the software that facilitates the copying. Is it that the illegality is directed only towards uses other than personal backups? Sort of "Don't remove this tag under penalty of law", but you the owner can mutilate the mattress any way you'd like?
Message: Posted by: irossall (Jan 9, 2006 07:34AM)
Comercial DVD's and CD's are aluminum disc's that are pressed then sandwiched in between clear plastic disc's which are then glued and pressed together. Most commercial disc's (name brand) are rated for 200 years.
The disc's that we "burn" at home are not aluminum pressed disc's but are dye's that react to the laser. Blank disc's for home use generaly have a minimum of 40 years of life and can be as high as 100+ years if you purchase the more expensive "Archive" disc's (from a name brand company). Some of the very inexpensive (no name) disc's can go bad in as little as a year or two, that is why I no longer purchase anything but recognised name brands.
Different dye's are used as well as different glues and that is where most of the problems come from.
I have tried most of the brands available in my area and I have had good results with Memorex and the more expensive Kodak Archive Disc's.
Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 11, 2006 05:24AM)
All this has a special significance for radio stations..these people invest who knows, multiple thousands of dollars in Cds, and hopefully their investment wont dry up and blow away after so many years!
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jan 11, 2006 09:31AM)
Daffy,

I think most radio stations have all their music on computer. I don't think they actually go and grab a CD and pop into the player anymore. It's all programmed by computer. If they want a song they just "punch" it up.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 11, 2006 04:29PM)
Boy, things have changed. I remmeber visiting a radio station a a kid, and they had a turntable and vinyl records. I'm sooooo old.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jan 11, 2006 04:35PM)
Me too. The had stacks of wax and racks of tracks baby!! Now most of them don't even have real DJ's. No D's to J. It's very possibile that no matter where you are, even in larger cities, you may be listening to a canned/syndicated program.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 11, 2006 06:57PM)
You know, what really got me started to thinking about all this is when I read somewhere that some very old vintage movies going WAY back to the start of film making were discovered in a vault...ROTTED and DECAYED to stinking worthlessness.

I happen to love old films, and I just thought: "Man. That is part of our film making heritage. It is gone FOREVER. Turned to dust. Never to be seen by future generations. and never to be recreated.*

Well, it wasn't much of a jump in my thought line to conclude that the same thing could someday be the fate of our music heritage in this country.

But now we have DVDs and Cds, and everything is happy. For a few hundred years at least. But then what?

Sure, the earth itself will be long gone by then anyway, but that is beside the point. The point is how many future generations will be able to view and listen to what we today take for granted, but will then be ancient history?

Nobody knows. Nothing on this earth is eternal. But I would sleep better at night knowing that the artists I love to listen to will be around for a long, long time.

I know you said the radio stations have it all programed on computer, but there is always a nemesis to everything! It starts with a "V" and ends with a an "irus."

Oh well. (sigh)

*happily, since the discovery of the rotted films, there is now a society dedicated to restoring old films and preserving them. So Jimmy stewart will still be able to keep running down the street every December yelling ;" Merry Christmas Bedford Falls! Merry Christmas Mr. Potter! Merry Christmas You old savings and loan!"
Message: Posted by: blindbo (Jan 11, 2006 07:26PM)
Okay, here's a way out thought: you've heard that radio waves and television waves go on forever, right? Like Pluto is watching the premier episode of Hazel right now. Well then, howzabout all info everywhere of everysort gets broadcasted and just have it reflect back and forth, around the globe and...keep up with me...
all information is always available. You just need to tune in to it with the right device. An information receiver / descrabler device.
Where is Tesla when we need him?