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Topic: Cold Reading - If you could do it all over again
Message: Posted by: eddie104 (Jan 30, 2006 11:16PM)
If you could do it all over again, which resources/books would you purchase to get started in cold reading?
Message: Posted by: Logan Five (Jan 30, 2006 11:31PM)
I think learning a couple of systems would be more of value that doing a cold or a stock type of reading. When I started I took a lot of the advice from a cassette I purchased by a reader in the NYC area by the name of Alexander Thomas. Lot's of great info in there and also a sample reading is on the cassette. I think the essays on fortune telling by T.A Waters is of value that can be found in Mind, Myth & Magick.
Message: Posted by: jimtron (Jan 30, 2006 11:34PM)
I would recommend Ian Rowland's "Full Facts of Cold Reading." [url=http://www.deceptionary.com/aboutreading.html]Here's[/url] a great list of other resources. If you do a search for "cold reading" here at the Café, you'll find a plethora of information as well. By the way, this can be a [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=147613&forum=15&104]contentious topic[/url] here at the Café.
Message: Posted by: David Numen (Jan 31, 2006 02:07AM)
It depends what you want to do with readings - personally I find Rowland´s book of little worth from the viewpoint that it´s clear he hasn´t really done any professional readings. Check out the works of Richard Webster and Joe Riding which are both enough to get you started.
Message: Posted by: The Truth Seeker (Jan 31, 2006 03:10AM)
I'd second Ian Rowland's Full Facts book.

Despite what some hobbyists say, the guy has been doing it professionally for a long time, and he's very good at it!

The Truth Seeker
Message: Posted by: Bambaladam (Jan 31, 2006 03:51AM)
It depends what you want to learn it for. The most enlightening book I know of is Crowley's Book of Thoth, which is exceptionally useful although not about cold reading at all.

I think a good place to begin is Cassidy's Cold Reading book, and Webster's stuff is awesome.

Rowlands' book isn't that useful if you want to give focused readings in private, but has some "tricks" you can use to spice up stage presentations. Don't expect to be as good as John Edward after reading that book though. It does have merits, but not enough to outweigh the negative attitude it conveys toward readings and readers in general. Ethical/exposure considerations aside (no need to open that can again, however bad it stinks), I can't recommend it until you are at a much later stage in private readings, or until you already have a solid QA act that doesn't use "methods" (a la Dynamite Mentalism and Gene Nielsen's wonderful book... I will add the name when I am back with my library).

Don't confuse stage "readings" with private sessions. The latter require an entirely different approach than "cold reading", and in the former, "cold reading" is only ever icing on the cake.

Start out with a genuine interest in one of the traditional systems, and build on that. If you want advice, pm me.

/Bamba
Message: Posted by: fred200 (Jan 31, 2006 03:57AM)
If I have to star again I star with initiations by thomas alexander,the tarot in 7 days by joe ridding, the inner secrets of expert in cold reading by fred crouter then quick readings with numerology and cold front by doug dyment.
From there herb dewey{if you can find his stuff},ron martin and all the books of richard webster.
Message: Posted by: Bambaladam (Jan 31, 2006 03:59AM)
I want to add a strong and emphatic "Hell Yeah!" to the recommendations of Initiations and Ron Martin's books. They are great!

/Bamba
Message: Posted by: David Numen (Jan 31, 2006 04:33AM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-31 04:10, The Truth Seeker wrote:
I'd second Ian Rowland's Full Facts book.

Despite what some hobbyists say, the guy has been doing it professionally for a long time, and he's very good at it!

The Truth Seeker
[/quote]
Since I was the one who alluded to Rowland´s book not being very good I guess you are referring to me as a "hobbyist".

I have been a psychic reader for over 12 years with a pretty good tack record. I´ve been on several radio stations in that capacity, wrote and presented my own paranormal special for a radio station and wrote an astrology and paranormal column for a local newspaper for 18 months so I am hardly a hobbyist.

Ian Rowland, to my knowledge, has NEVER worked as a "real" psychic. He has only ever been called in by newspapers and magazines and TV shows to demonstrate how convincing a "fake" psychic can be. And this is the approach taken in his book.

The problem with this approach is that he makes some assumptions which don´t cut any ice in real life and I personally don´t think anyone following the book would last very long if they tried to enter the "real" psychic market.

On the other hand Richard Webster has worked in all areas of the psychic world and has become a very successful author for the new age field. The late, great, Joe Riding also worked as a tarot and palm reader so he has real world advice which I don´t think you´d get from Rowland´s writings which, to me, are what a magician imagines cold reading to be about.

For my money here are my absolute favourites on the subject. although I would always recommend a full study of whatever particular divination method you are going to use.

Quick and Effective Cold Reading by Richard Webster
Joe Riding´s Psychic Course
Kenton Knepper and Rex Sikes Wonder Readings
Millard Longman´s Psychic Skills Workshop
Brad Henderson´s The Dance
Alexander Thomas´ Initiations
Bob Cassidy´s Real Work of Cold Reading (particularly good for busting some of the myths which people like Rowland and co. propagate).

If, as the thread title suggests, I could start all over again, I think the best and freest way of learning the art would be Millard´s PSW and Kenton´and Rex´x Wonder Readings. With those two sources you will have endless variations and possibilities.
Message: Posted by: David Numen (Jan 31, 2006 05:51AM)
Oh, forgot to add I would throw in The Dance also as it has some great stuffo on how to adjust.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jan 31, 2006 06:31AM)
Hey - what do people think of Lee Earle's "Gentle Art" CD for the beginner?

I also second Ian Rowland's book - there is a script in there one can easily adapt to almost anybody - plus it is good as a book for the "framework" of the process... so that if you get that base - you can do anything - including reading chicken bone leftovers...

I always hear about the Dance - is it worth shelling out the wacky prices on Ebay??!
Message: Posted by: The Truth Seeker (Jan 31, 2006 06:43AM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-31 05:33, bartlewizard wrote:

Since I was the one who alluded to Rowland´s book not being very good I guess you are referring to me as a "hobbyist".

I have been a psychic reader for over 12 years with a pretty good tack record. I´ve been on several radio stations in that capacity, wrote and presented my own paranormal special for a radio station and wrote an astrology and paranormal column for a local newspaper for 18 months so I am hardly a hobbyist.

[/quote]

I wasn't specifically Bart but if the cap fits.....

If you don't mind me asking, which radio station, it sounds interesting!
And why did the column only last 18 months? Did you get bored or did you find that the audience for such a column wasn't there? It's a shame, one doesn't get to see many paranormal columns and such.

The Truth Seeker

ps I think your negative comments on Ian Rowlands book are perhaps borne out of something more than you state, no?
Message: Posted by: dan parker (Jan 31, 2006 07:21AM)
I recommend "Wonder Readings" from Kenton Knepper.

Very good ideas, and easy to listening...

In my opinion is Ian Rowlands Book to theoretic
Message: Posted by: mota (Jan 31, 2006 10:51AM)
Quick and Effective Cold Reading by Richard Webster..this teaches you how to actually do a palm reading.

Then some basic book from the library or bookstore on palmistry to expand your technical knowledge of palmistry. In my experience, people want palm readings more than anything else. Tarot is good too, but given a choice the vast majority of people will pick palm.

I wouldn't bother with most of the magic books...they have the mindset because they fake it everyone does. Stock readings and tricks don't last long in the real world. Impression devices are a waste of time, just ask them what they want the reading on. I've seen it mentioned multiple times that they don't care how you get the question, they just want the answer. Only magicians worry about tears and peeks, real readers don't bother with this as their clients just don't care. Stage is another animal entirely that I don't feel qualified to comment on but there peeks and tears certainly could prove useful.

Millard Longman seems quite real world also and comes very highly recommended by Ford Kross and others who's opinions I value...just haven't done a lot with him...I do feel good suggesting you would learn stuff that you could actually do in the real world from him.

This is of course far from inclusive...I have Joe Riding's 7 day Tarot course and that would get you started, though the outlook on some of his interpretations is a bit negative...but as you got experience you would learn more.

So, to summarize, I would just have spent the time to learn palmistry and the only magician book I would buy again is Richard Webster's Quick and Effective Cold Reading...but that is fantastic. You learn how to actually do a palm reading.
Message: Posted by: calamari (Jan 31, 2006 11:11AM)
Is there one source or reference that would be the best place to start?
Message: Posted by: David Numen (Jan 31, 2006 11:37AM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-31 07:43, The Truth Seeker wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-01-31 05:33, bartlewizard wrote:

Since I was the one who alluded to Rowland´s book not being very good I guess you are referring to me as a "hobbyist".

I have been a psychic reader for over 12 years with a pretty good tack record. I´ve been on several radio stations in that capacity, wrote and presented my own paranormal special for a radio station and wrote an astrology and paranormal column for a local newspaper for 18 months so I am hardly a hobbyist.
[/quote]
I wasn't specifically Bart but if the cap fits.....

If you don't mind me asking, which radio station, it sounds interesting!
And why did the column only last 18 months? Did you get bored or did you find that the audience for such a column wasn't there? It's a shame, one doesn't get to see many paranormal columns and such.

The Truth Seeker

ps I think your negative comments on Ian Rowlands book are perhaps borne out of something more than you state, no?
[/quote]
May I ask what your credentials are Truth Seeker, since you seem so keen on denouncing others?

And since I have spent 12 years as a psychic reader, in what way would the cap of "hobbyist" fit?

Regarding which paper and radio stations, I would rather not be specific as I don´t want my real-world name linked with a magic forum but to be vague I was on a top local Scottish station twice, 3 appearances as a psychic (enhanced with some mentalism effects) on a top English radio station in Spain, countless appearances doing the weekly horoscopes on another English station in Spain, the paranormal special (which was on Mental Bending) was on this same channel, that station changed hands and became a "younger" station so I moved to another Englsih station in Spain which was tied in with my Newspaper column.

I only did the newspaper and radio work for publicity and I ceased both when I changed location 2 years ago.

My dislike of Rowland´s Cold Reading book is for the reasons I have previously stated which I think are pretty explicit.
Message: Posted by: Mike Baxter (Jan 31, 2006 12:24PM)
[quote]
In my experience, people want palm readings more than anything else . . .

I would just have spent the time to learn palmistry and the only magician book I would buy again is Richard Webster's Quick and Effective Cold Reading...but that is fantastic. You learn how to actually do a palm reading.
[/quote]
I agree.

In case it got lost in the shuffle of earlier posts, Doug Dyment's [url=http://www.deceptionary.com/coldfront.html]Cold Front[/url] is a very convenient palm reading learning tool based on Richard Webster's ‘Quick and Effective Cold Reading’. Q&E is currently out of print and hard to obtain. I would suggest that of equal use as Q&E are the more easily obtained RW books such as Complete Book of Palmistry and Palm Reading For Beginners.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 31, 2006 12:34PM)
If I could do it all again, I would run away with the Gypsies.
Having started my work on this back in the 70's, there were not that many resources (Nelson, Anderson, Larson, Corinda, but not much more in the magic arean). I'd probably have saved my money for visits to readers and learned more by example.

Tony
Message: Posted by: mota (Jan 31, 2006 01:43PM)
My apologies...Mike Baxter is correct and I forgot...

Doug Dyments flash cards titled, "Cold Front" are the core of Richard's palm reading system. They are done with Richard's permission and are a very effective way to learn his approach to palm reading.
Message: Posted by: mysticz (Jan 31, 2006 02:28PM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-31 13:34, TonyEye wrote:
Having started my work on this back in the 70's, there were not that many resources (Nelson, Anderson, Larson, Corinda, but not much more in the magic arean).
[/quote]

I agree. When I began learning to perform readings in the mid 1970s, there was little available on the magic market that was very helpful. My interest in psychology and sociology was very helpful in increasing my understanding of people, and my study of occult publications concerning tarot and other traditional divination methods enabled me to develop my own unique approach to psychic reading. I also benefitted from Josef Ranald's 1930s works on palmistry and handwriting analysis that I was able to find while exploring used book shops.

By the time I came across many of the excellent works by Webster, Dewey, Kross, Martin, etc., I had already developed a unique and fairly successful approach to a number of divination systems. While I am glad that I have had the benefit of access to these later works, I feel fortunate that I learned the ropes on my own and was able to develop my own approach to this craft.

Joe Z.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 31, 2006 02:32PM)
Joe
I hear you brother and shared your path.

Tony
Message: Posted by: The Truth Seeker (Jan 31, 2006 05:25PM)
[quote]
On 2006-01-31 12:37, bartlewizard wrote:

May I ask what your credentials are Truth Seeker, since you seem so keen on denouncing others?
[/quote]
Bart, pretty much why I asked the questions of you. Looking back over your previous posts exposes a certain bitterness towards those who are clearly more talented and professional than yourself. It does make one wonder of your motives.

Such negativity..... still if it makes you feel better!

The Truth Seeker

p.s As for denouncing others, there you have me wrong, I may not like certain 'works' but at least I have a little respect for those out there 'doing it' not to attempt to rubbish them on a public forum.
Message: Posted by: jimtron (Jan 31, 2006 06:23PM)
It would be great if we could stick to the subject of cold reading (I'm not directing this at any one person, by the way).

Thanks,

Jim
Message: Posted by: David Numen (Feb 1, 2006 02:52AM)
It would indeed jimtron, and in that spirit I have taken my discussion with Truth Seeker to PM.
Message: Posted by: eddie104 (Feb 1, 2006 09:10PM)
Wow, thank you all for these suggestions
Message: Posted by: teejay (Feb 2, 2006 04:22AM)
Hi, Mota
Yousaid it all 'on the back of a post card'
Great post
Great advice
LOL
TJ
Message: Posted by: 7th_Son (Feb 2, 2006 05:59AM)
If I could do it all again, I would read more pulp psychology books, and fewer cold reading books!

Specifically, I would memorise key points from:

"Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" by John Gray.
"Passages" by Gail Sheehy.
"New Passages" by Gail Sheehy.

Studying these three books will allow you to give really accurate readings by simply knowing someones sex and approximate age.
Message: Posted by: coupcoupdaddy (Feb 5, 2006 03:04PM)
The third thing I wish I knew about is how to really experience any person as a unique individual. That I think is a clue to be able to better pick up on what people don't say. And, yes, 7thSon, knowledge of gender and developmental psychology are very important. You will certainly encounter many who have read or have heard of the popular authors you mention. There is a Jungian door and framework as well that grows richer and more viable the older I become.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Nov 30, 2007 09:19PM)
The Dance is being reprinted in paperback and is currently on its way to the bindery. It will be available for pre-sale on December 5 through your favorite dealer (or directly through me). I hope to have it ship within 2 weeks.

Brad
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Nov 30, 2007 09:54PM)
Richard Webster's books, yes, very informative work.

Also Jim Callahan's "Intelligent Redesign", though I don't own this particular Jim Callahan product, I've heard phenomenal things about it and I can vouch for his other superior work which I do own and use.

And just for fun, my own "The Fortune Teller" - (memorization required).
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Dec 1, 2007 05:44AM)
I'm sorry, I neglected to mention my very simple "Astragalomancy" and "Cartomancy Overnight" eBooks which are a great source for those getting started.

At least my mass of followers agree.
Message: Posted by: Balaram (Dec 1, 2007 11:14PM)
The Dance to be reprinted? This is welcome news, my thanks to Brad Henderson, I WILL be a customer.
AND many thanks to Alexandre, for The Fortune Teller, recommended for a no-nonsense and practicle (oops-thats practical-Sanctum again-) initial step.
Message: Posted by: Jon_Thompson (Dec 2, 2007 08:18AM)
I wish I'd read Knepper's "Completely Cold" as well as the late Joe Riding's "Advanced Cold Reading" when I started learning.

I tend to think of Ian Rowland's book as being like a library of subroutines you can use in different situations once you have the basics under your belt. Plus he's a nice bloke. Gave me a replacement for my knackered old copy at Tabula Mentis, and signed both. Nice!
Message: Posted by: bevbevvybev (Dec 5, 2007 07:21PM)
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=163396&forum=159
Message: Posted by: martin king (Dec 23, 2007 05:06AM)
Hi guys & gals,

What we're all forgetting is it's "horses for courses"!!!

We all need to learn in different ways and teachers teach in their own style!

So it's either up to us to find the right teacher, or the teacher to find the right student, or better still the teacher to teach in many different styles!

That's why I like Kenton Knepper's 'Completely Cold' because it boils cold reading down to some very basic principles...doubt (though don't know) that it'd work on its own and strongly believe that you'd need more techniques!

I also like Knepper's 'Wonder Readings', because it starts off with things that even complete dunces (who don't like having to memorise a script and don't like having to rely upon my virtually non-exsistant intuition/improvisation skills) like me could do, to much more advanced techniques that we can incorporate once we've got the basics 'down pat'

I also like Ian Rowlands 'Full Facts About Cold Reading' because it gives you all the tecniques under the sun; but, it requires some serious memorisation and it doesn't take you by the hand and show you how to go from beginner to expert!

The other systems I like, actually teach you how to read palms, which I feel are essential, unless you want to look like a dunce, in front of the client who's 'boned up' on palm reading, and they're as follows...

Bev's Speed Learn Palm Readings Plus Palm Tick Sheet COMBO
http://payloadz.com/go/jump?id=249341&merch_id=&aff_id=17144

&

Alan Strydom's Palmistry Quickies
Alan Strydom's Simple Esp Card Reading System
(which you'll find somewhere in the magic Café...it's where I got it from)

The one system that I didn't get on with was Richard Webster's (sorry Mr Webster)!

So you see, "horses for courses"!

Warm regards,

Martin King
Message: Posted by: Tanis (Dec 23, 2007 06:20AM)
I have used Ians book very effectively as a starting point, one point made here was the book would not be very usefull if someone was working as a real psycic, surely a real psycic wouldn't need to use a cold reading tecnique, I worked for many years as a childrens entertainer here in south Wales under the name Stuart J, after the show I would talk to the parents and use cold readings to give them insights into their lifestyles, its amazing how much you can pick up from the venue etc, this helped get a lot of repeat bookings, back to cold reading Ian Rowlands book is a great start, but there are many others out there, it's what suits you best
Message: Posted by: Subgenial (Dec 23, 2007 08:12AM)
I have been cold reading now for 48 years and am court astrologer for the Queen. I am also taller than anyone here - so here is my advice.
(this works with Tarot, Tea-Leaves, Runes, Flys on the wall etc).
Look them in the eye - but 3 inches behind and say.....
'What do you think this looks like.....' Take it from there...
Message: Posted by: John C (Dec 23, 2007 08:53AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-23 06:10, martin king wrote:
Whoops, I posted twice, sorry guys
[/quote]
We all need to learn in different ways so reading it twice helped me. Thanks! :)

J
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Dec 23, 2007 09:23AM)
I would stick with the Sim Stone Manual! :)
Special collectors edition due to be relesaed in 2008 (170 sets)
Bri
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Dec 23, 2007 09:27AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-23 10:23, mindyourmagic wrote:
I would stick with the Sim Stone Manual! :)
Special collectors edition due to be relesaed in 2008 (170 sets)
Bri
[/quote]
Never heard of it.

Is this something you are putting together? If so, can you provide a description?

Tony
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Dec 23, 2007 09:31AM)
Hi Tony,
I released it 12 years ago. I have finally found a reliable supplier to manufacture the pieces needed..

There are a heap of imdependent reviews in the back of the free ebook I sent to Café members recently... I am sure you were on the list... If not, PM me your email address.
Bri

Posted: Dec 23, 2007 10:34am
By the way, it's not the ebook in my signature, I meant the one I only made available to Café members.
Bri
Message: Posted by: martin king (Dec 23, 2007 09:42AM)
Hi John,

Thanks for your comment, (although this post is going off at a tangent to the original post...something, I really don't like!!!)

Just to clear up, I only submitted my reply once, but for who knows whatever reason, some strange peice of software, submitted it twice...or did my finger slip...we'll never know!

To get back onto the subject, from every 'cold reading' book/ebook that I've bought, borrowed, been given for free, or stolen (sum total stolen so far = 0), I've got at least one (if not more) useable cold reading techniques... but the ones I mentioned before are the ones that I'd highly recommend and get, if, as the post suggests, "I could do it all over again"!

My warm regards to all and especially John.

P.S. Yes, your comment msot deifientely made me LOL...
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Dec 23, 2007 09:49AM)
You can, after writing your post, push the edit button up on top next to the post date/time and edit your post, as long as someone hasn't answer it yet.

Bri, I got your free eBook, thank you, but I'll have to grab a PC to see it because it's an .exe file and I'm a MAChole.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Dec 23, 2007 10:59AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-23 10:31, mindyourmagic wrote:
Hi Tony,
I released it 12 years ago. I have finally found a reliable supplier to manufacture the pieces needed..

There are a heap of imdependent reviews in the back of the free ebook I sent to Café members recently... I am sure you were on the list... If not, PM me your email address.
Bri
[/quote]
Bri

Thank you, I was not on the list and will wait for the the new release.

Tony
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Dec 23, 2007 11:58AM)
Alexandre, if you PM me your email address I will send you what may be a solution (I hope!)

Tony, if you want a copy of the ebook PM me your email and I will sort one out for you with pleasure.

Best,
Bri
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Dec 23, 2007 12:01PM)
Bri, your box is full.

You can get my email from the contact info on my website: http://www.EyesandMinds.com

Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Dec 23, 2007 12:11PM)
Sorry! Cleared it out a little!
Message: Posted by: bevbevvybev (Dec 23, 2007 12:12PM)
Thanks for the double posting about my Palm Reading book

I wrote it after having being frustrated with reading almost every book that's been mentioned - I wanted a book to tell me what I needed to know, and how to say it without sounding like a parrot, and be as simple as possible, but not shallow. Hopefully I did that.

These other books mentioned also caused me to write my James Bond book - especially Herb Dewey's stuff which is great but 'too much information', and Lee Earle's 'Gentle Art Of Cold Reading' which I must admit I can't stand.

To do cold reading you need stuff to give you ideas, and ways of being creative.

Not lists of stuff you're probably going to forget anyway. It's the idea of stock lines which is interesting, not the lines themselves.

Anyway, thanks for the plug and happy xmas, hope you have some fun reading palms over the festive season!
Message: Posted by: landmark (Dec 23, 2007 12:43PM)
What do people think of Knepper's Mind Reading? (Me, I don't do this stuff, I can't stand Knepper's manipulative and condescending writing, but . . . to this non-reader it seemed like it had a wealth of useful ideas.)

Jack Shalom
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Dec 23, 2007 06:13PM)
Tony,
I have added a link to the reviews in my signature.
Best,
Bri
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Dec 23, 2007 06:32PM)
Bri:

Thank you!

Tony
Message: Posted by: Brucelee (Dec 23, 2007 07:25PM)
Kenton Knepper's Completely Cold helped me a lot.\

Brucelee
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Dec 23, 2007 07:49PM)
Bruce

That does not say a lot. Completly Cold, in my humble opinion was the biggest waste of cold hard cash I ever spent. AND I find it a worthless POS, not worthy of the paper it is printed on. BUT if you find it useful, more power to you.
Message: Posted by: Brucelee (Dec 23, 2007 07:58PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-23 20:49, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Bruce

That does not say a lot. Completly Cold, in my humble opinion was the biggest waste of cold hard cash I ever spent. AND I find it a worthless POS, not worthy of the paper it is printed on. BUT if you find it useful, more power to you.
[/quote]
Kenton's little piece in the manuscript of common sense = cold reading really helped me understand it much better.

Brucelee