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Topic: Si Stebbins from NDO
Message: Posted by: JPL (Feb 9, 2006 03:06PM)
Does anybody know how to go from a new deck order to Si Stebbins? I've heard there is a method based on Faro shuffles but I've not been able to find any references.


JPL
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Feb 9, 2006 03:10PM)
Yes, Darwin Ortiz has a method called the Stebbins Secrets whichi think is in the scams and fantasies. Its done with a bunch overhand shuffles and faro shuffles.
Message: Posted by: Daegs (Feb 9, 2006 03:25PM)
It isn't in S&F, its in an earlier book....

But yes, its Darwin Ortiz and its VERY good.
Message: Posted by: Patrick Differ (Feb 9, 2006 03:27PM)
Yep,
Earlier book.
Steve Youell was permitted to reprint it in one of his lecture notes, too.
Fun stuff.
Message: Posted by: dlhoyt (Feb 9, 2006 03:28PM)
The method is in Darwin Ortiz At the Card Table (see p. 137), not Scams and Fantasies.
Message: Posted by: Tom Dobrowolski (Feb 9, 2006 03:30PM)
It's in the Darwin Ortiz book "At The Card Table" and is not done "with a bunch of overhand shuffles and faro shuffles". It is much more direct than that.
Message: Posted by: JPL (Feb 9, 2006 03:45PM)
Without giving away the actual method an you indicate if it Faro based?

JPL
Message: Posted by: Steve Haynes (Feb 9, 2006 11:07PM)
It is done with four running over hand shuffles and two out faro's
It is very natural and direct.
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Feb 9, 2006 11:18PM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-10 00:07, cardman036 wrote:
It is done with four running over hand shuffles and two out faro's
It is very natural and direct.
[/quote]

Tom- wouldn't you consider that to be a bunch of overhand shuffles and faros?

just a thought, lol
Message: Posted by: Steve Haynes (Feb 9, 2006 11:33PM)
I ment to say IN faro's not out.
It is as direct as you can get and a wonderful tool.
Message: Posted by: magickdabid--uk (Feb 10, 2006 02:02AM)
An earlier method was first printed in Rusduck's 2Cardiste" number 3 in June 1957, almost the same as Darwins.....


Dave
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Feb 10, 2006 02:59AM)
[quote]On 2006-02-10 03:02, magickdabid--uk wrote:
An earlier method was first printed in Rusduck's "Cardiste" number 3 in June 1957, almost the same as Darwins.....[/quote]
This "almost the same" must be interpreted as "similar". Rusduck published the principle and Ortiz arranged it so that we can use in real performance.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Feb 10, 2006 08:10AM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-10 00:07, cardman036 wrote:
It is done with four running over hand shuffles and two out faro's
It is very natural and direct.
[/quote]

I would have said "buy the book and find out" but that's just me...
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Feb 10, 2006 11:54AM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-10 00:18, clamon86 wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-02-10 00:07, cardman036 wrote:
It is done with four running over hand shuffles and two out faro's
It is very natural and direct.
[/quote]

Tom- wouldn't you consider that to be a bunch of overhand shuffles and faros?

lol Exactly what I was thinking.

just a thought, lol
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: wsduncan (Feb 10, 2006 04:47PM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-10 00:18, clamon86 wrote:
...wouldn't you consider that to be a bunch of overhand shuffles and faros?
[/quote]

Actually… NO. Since the pack is in New Deck Order to begin with that's not enough honest shuffles to mix the cards. A well known magician/mathematician did research on randomizing a new deck of cards and found that it required EIGHT honest shuffles.

Using a mixture of four (honest) overhand shuffles and two (honest) faro shuffles would come close to random though… But we know the shuffles aren’t honest, in this case.
Message: Posted by: Steve Haynes (Feb 10, 2006 06:02PM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-10 09:10, T. Joseph O'Malley wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-02-10 00:07, cardman036 wrote:
It is done with four running over hand shuffles and two out faro's
It is very natural and direct.
[/quote]

I would have said "buy the book and find out" but that's just me...
[/quote]

I agree that he should get the book.
But giving enough info(not exact method)should help anyone to decide if this is for them or not.
Message: Posted by: edh (Feb 10, 2006 06:19PM)
Four running shuffles and two faros is natural? I don't think so.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Feb 10, 2006 06:32PM)
[quote]
Using a mixture of four (honest) overhand shuffles and two (honest) faro shuffles would come close to random though… [/quote]

No, it wouldn't. There would be a tremendous amount of order retained. Though the shuffle might look random during a brief glance, a simple test will demonstrate that it isn't.

Do this:

Take a deck in new deck order (NDO).

Give it a complete overhand shuffle. Don’t try to be “extra” thorough…just do your normal overhand shuffle.

Repeat this three more times.

Give the deck 2 perfect faros.

Begin turning cards over one at a time making a face-up row. Stop when you have 4 face-up cards.

Let’s assume your first 4 cards are:
9S, 8C, JH, KH

Now guess the top card of the deck by guessing one off of the first card in your new order. In this case, you’d guess that the next card is the 8S (it’s one lower than the 9S that started the run). Now guess that the next card will be the 9C. Check and see that you’re correct. You won’t always be of course, but you’ll be right far more often than chance would indicate. Overhand shuffles are pretty inefficient at randomizing cards, and faros don’t randomize at all! They put cards at known distances (assuming they’re perfect faros).

By the way, when you’re guessing hearts or clubs, guess one lower than the card you can see (when guessing spades or diamonds, guess one higher). You do this because of the way the suits are ordered in NDO (assuming a USPCC deck).

Jason
Message: Posted by: Silly Walter the Polar Bear (Feb 10, 2006 07:38PM)
Didn't Charles Jordan discover something along those lines?
Message: Posted by: JPL (Feb 11, 2006 05:14PM)
Thanks for the info - sounds like the sort of technique I'm interested in. I place an order for the book tomorrow.

JPL
Message: Posted by: JPL (Feb 14, 2006 05:15AM)
Out of interest it is now possible to buy the complete Cardiste from Peter Duffie.


JPL