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Topic: Memorized deck by rote
Message: Posted by: cardguy24 (Feb 27, 2006 07:48PM)
I Just started trying to learn the Aronson stack. Because I don't have the book I have been doing by rote or cold memory. I can already name the first 26 cards in order. Anyone else try to memorize a deck this way?
I am doing it this way because the nmnemonics that I have seen for other decks like the Nikola system seemed to be very confusing and not helpful to me. Am I going in the right direction or making a big mistake by doing it through cold memory? Or does s it not matter.

Thanks!!!!
Message: Posted by: jecar (Feb 27, 2006 07:54PM)
When you decide on the stack that you want to use, here's a good little program that will help you practice it.

http://www.stackview.com/

Jerry
..
Message: Posted by: jcigam (Feb 27, 2006 08:06PM)
I learned the stack by rote memorization. I found the best way for me was to take a deck of cards and write the stack number which coincides with the card (obviously) on the back. This makes a deck of flash cards and then I ran through them on a daily basis.

Study the flash cards by looking at the numbers and naming the card, then look at the card and name the number. You can then turn half of them the opposite direction and shuffle them together; now you are working positions vs. cards and cards vs. positions; be creative.

I guess my point is (I am kind of stating the obvious) in order to "KNOW" your stack you must know it frontwards, backwards, inside and out, know what card falls at what position and what position is each card (if that makes sense).

Hope this helps,

Jered S.
Message: Posted by: scorch (Feb 27, 2006 08:17PM)
Tamariz has some of the best work available on memorizing a stack rapidly. Even though you're using the Aronson stack, you'll definitely want to get a copy of Mnemonica, since most of the information applies to any full deck stack.
Message: Posted by: JHodgeCMI (Feb 28, 2006 01:14AM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-27 20:54, jecar wrote:
When you decide on the stack that you want to use, here's a good little program that will help you practice it.

http://www.stackview.com/

Jerry
..
[/quote]

Thanks, for the link Jerry!!!
Message: Posted by: ithomson (Feb 28, 2006 08:51AM)
Cardguy24

I second the recommendation for Stackview. This is a lovely utility.

The only issue I can see with not using a standard memory system is that you're missing out on a wonderful tool that's incredibly useful for many things (and not just in magic).

If you're having problems with the descriptions in "Encyclopedia Of Card Magic", I'd recommend either Lorayne's or Buzan's books on memory training.

Ian
Message: Posted by: Dermit (Feb 28, 2006 09:04AM)
I learned Aronson by rote and do not regret it at all. I did just like jcigam mentioned, made a deck a flash card deck and continously was shuffling and testing. As I was learning, I learned them all in order 1-52, I would add 2 to 5 new cards a day to the stack of flash cards I knew, but always took the stack and shuffled and tested. Now that I have it all down (I memorized last year, December) I always test myself, even when not performing. I got in such a habit that there are certain times when I recite the stack in my head just for practice. Especially while driving alone in the car, or on the treadmill at the gym (gets my mind off the running). I also make a habit of when I see a number from 1 to 52, like on a license plate, home address, etc. I test myself by naming the card linked to that index. One day I decided to test myself every once in while on reciting the Aronson stack after one in-faro shuffle, it's not that hard once you have the stack down cold and could come in handy.

I've got mnemonica and Try the impossible, both have great ideas... does anyone have a recommendation for another book... I'm think like one from Aronson.... is Bound to Please a good one?
Message: Posted by: kerpa (Feb 28, 2006 12:25PM)
I too learned it exactly the way jcigam says. You are heading in the right direction.
kerpa
a/k/a Michael Miller
Chicago area
Message: Posted by: Bill Lhotta (Mar 10, 2006 05:33PM)
> I'm think like one from Aronson.... is Bound to Please a good one?

Bound to Please is great! It has some incredible effects such as shuffle-bored and histed heisted. Simon's other book "Simply Simon" is great too!

** Bill **
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Mar 11, 2006 02:28PM)
When you get the deck memorized it will be a powerful tool. It doesn't matter at all how you memorize it. Rote works. I learned a lot of stuff in school by rote before I found out about mnemonics.

There may be faster ways, but some guys spend more time trying to decide how to memorize a deck that it will take to do it. Just jump in. It's just not that hard.

Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: SDR (Mar 11, 2006 02:49PM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-27 20:48, cardguy24 wrote:
I Just started trying to learn the Aronson stack. Because I don't have the book I have been doing by rote or cold memory. I can already name the first 26 cards in order. Anyone else try to memorize a deck this way?
I am doing it this way because the nmnemonics that I have seen for other decks like the Nikola system seemed to be very confusing and not helpful to me. Am I going in the right direction or making a big mistake by doing it through cold memory? Or does s it not matter.

Thanks!!!!
[/quote]

I think you're limiting yourself by not learning one with in built effects and methods to get into other stacks/new deck order.
Message: Posted by: jcigam (Mar 11, 2006 04:32PM)
1st, the Aronson Stack (as well as the Tamariz stack and others) has a vault of built in routines; 2nd, I have never found a professional reason for having to get into the stack from new deck order.

I am not saying that it wouldn't be "COOL" to get into your stack from new deck order but, I just haven't found a professional situation where I would have been required to do it.

Like I said above, I memorized the Aronson stack using the flash cards (rote) and I have never regretted learning this particular stack. I agree with Mr. Loomis; you need to just do it.

Jered S.
Message: Posted by: Mesquita (Mar 11, 2006 09:39PM)
[quote]
On 2006-02-27 20:54, jecar wrote:
When you decide on the stack that you want to use, here's a good little program that will help you practice it.

http://www.stackview.com/

Jerry
..
[/quote]

I always recommend that program for everybody that uses a memorized deck. Nick Pudar, the creator, is a Café Member, and one more time I would like to thank him for this excellent program! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Mar 12, 2006 05:20PM)
Once you basically know a stack, you can practice it easily almost anywhere. I review the Aronson stack often while driving and during my morning walk. No cards are required. I first just go through the deck, from Ace of Clubs to the King and then the other suits. I recall the stack number of each card. I also pick numbers off of houses, parked cars, etc. I name the card at the stack number. I also just run through the order of the cards... forwards and backwards mentally. It's not that I'm learning... I've used the stack for over 10 years, but just sharpening the skills and staying on top of it. A few minutes a day and the stack remains firmly in the mind and fast to work with.
Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: Ryan 101 (Mar 14, 2006 12:33AM)
I just got Try the Impossible by Aronson (really good book)and I'm still trying to memorize the stack as well. I'm trying to memorize it the same way you are, but as I go on I realize that you should be able to match the card and the number together. Also in his book there are many tricks using the stack that you don't need to have the order memorized.


Ryan
Message: Posted by: Hoelderlin (May 16, 2006 02:56PM)
A very good tool for memorizing anything is the Supermemo http:///www.supermemo.com . It is based on the principle of the "spaced repetition": it tries to match your time of retention and ask you the name of each card (or anything else) when he calculates you are near to forgetting it, asking more often the items you forget quickly and rarely the well-known ones. The version 98 is free, and there is also some open source clone.
Message: Posted by: spycrapper (May 19, 2006 01:17AM)
I memorized aronson stack by rote... it's the same reason like cardguy24, I don't have any aronson's book. but I found that memorized deck is a great tool, and I decided to memorize it. I can memorize all 52 cards in one day, but it took me about 5-6seconds to know which number is the card or vice versa. it got better after a few weeks, I can now recall the cards in about 1-2seconds.
I practise like all of you did, that is shuffle the deck, pull out one card and name the number. or just spreading the cards face up (after shuffled) then name the number. or when I see a number everywhere, I try to recall the card... it works for me...
now I'm looking to buy Try The Impossible. is the book contain memorized deck effect?
thanks
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 23, 2006 12:26AM)
The rote method works for me too ... and making flash cards.

Other methods look ok, but I guess it's what suits you.

Does anyone have a view on which of Simon Aronson;s books are the best, in relation to a memorised deck ?

Piers.
Message: Posted by: leftytheclown (Jun 23, 2006 02:07PM)
Simon Aronson had a Stack Memorization tool on his web site and Dennis Loomis has a number of essays and tips on learning and using the Aroson Stack. I learned from Aronson's book, A Stack to Remember and made flash cards as well. It took me some time, but I'm a slow learner. As motivation, I would look for a an effect you really want to do using a Mem Deck. Mike Close, Aronson, and Tamariz, and many others have a number of stunners to choose from.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Loomis (Jun 26, 2006 12:52PM)
Piers,
While you can't go wrong with any of Simon's Books, why not start at the "beginning" with Bound To Please? It tackle's Simon's stack in detail and explains all of the built in features. All of his books have some great effects with a memorized deck, but if you start here, you'll know what built in effects are there. For example, I don't normally do a bridge deal as part of my planned repertoire. But, it's nice to know that it's there and how to do it. (Very easy to learn and remember.) Then, if I happen to meet a bridge player while doing magic, I can do it especially for him.

Dennis Loomis
Message: Posted by: falcon (Jun 27, 2006 03:37PM)
Simon Aronson had a Stack Memorization tool on his web site, would it make sense to ask why?
I learned the nmnemonics system from Harry Lorayne's Memory Book to learn the Nikola system. Yes it did take time and effort to get the system down. But once you have it you can use it over and over.
A year later I discovered the Aronson Stack. It was much more powerful. It took me less than 30 minutes to memorize the stack and just a few days to be very, very comfortable with it.
It wasn't until later that I discovered StackView. Why not use all your most powerful tools to do your work?
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 29, 2006 11:15AM)
Thank you, Dennis,

I now have Bound to Please, and it's an excellent book. I love it.

Some sound comments here about Stack view too.

Best,

Piers.
Message: Posted by: LordPH (Jun 30, 2006 02:58AM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-19 02:17, spycrapper wrote:
now I'm looking to buy Try The Impossible. is the book contain memorized deck effect?
thanks
[/quote]
Yes it contains memorized deck effects like all the other Aronson´s Books.

...and I second that Stackview is great tool for memorized decks!
I´m going to try that supermemo :)
Message: Posted by: Bursky (Jul 5, 2006 04:02AM)
Check out Simon's new DVD's.
Message: Posted by: Emmanuel (Sep 20, 2006 07:19AM)
I am using Aronson stacks too. It takes me a month to really perfecting it and being able to
- translate number position to card value and vice versa
- from a shuffled deck, then I re-arranged the deck in stack order.
- finding out what is the next and before card
- find the particular card in the deck without looking at the face

I agree with you guys who used the flash card method and using rote method, because it works for me too. The only thing that I realized is, no matter which stack you go for, whatever the method of memorization is, full concentration, hardwork and variety of self test with the deck, it really pays off.

Tamariz or Aronson, as long it is a memorized deck and non cyclical or mathematical deck, the effect is unlimited.
Message: Posted by: drphil (Jun 22, 2014 10:07PM)
I learned Aronson by rote also. I learned the names of the cards and locations but it realy started coming together when I picked a suite and wrote the card and number for each one once I felt I had that suit down I moved on to another one. Once had all the suits down I used the free stack quizer on Aronson's site. So I learned the Aronson stack for free just using the information on his web site. That was years ago and I still have it memorized, no wonder Aronson called it a stack to remember. It's funny anytime I see or hear a card I think of the card number and if I hear a number from 1-52 I think of the card. I think that these little mental games help me to keep the stack down cold.
Message: Posted by: lcwright1964 (Jun 24, 2014 08:35PM)
The complexity of the numeric-phonetic mnemonics, such as the one in the classic Nikola pamphlet or the system suggested by Aronson in A Stack to Remember, actually discouraged me from memorizing a stack. I thought there seemed to be too many intermediary steps for something that shouldn't be so hard. Then I had a talk with myself an reminded myself that in my day job (I am a physician) I have had to memorize (and in many cases forget through disuse) mountains of by-rote information in the process of education and training. My brain isn't as young and quick as in my twenties, but I don't seem to be dementing yet, and we really are talking about a relatively short list of associations. So I went the flash card route. I learned Aronson first, and indeed I love some of the stack-specific effects in Try the Impossible. But I picked up Mnemonica a little later and that is now freshest in my mind. I can't keep two separate stacks straight with confidence and personally I don't see any reason to since my favourite tricks are stack independent anyway. I followed much of Tamariz's advice, though not as rigourously, in working on consolidating memory through a few different modalities. I run through my flash cards still at times, or perhaps a stack quizzer (there are free ones online), but still the best way I keep my stack in memory is to set it up by hand as quickly as I can every time I get my hands on a deck. I don't do a perfect faro (yet), but I know how to set up Mnemonica several ways using antifaros, and that is a good deal of fun. Still, nothing consolidates my memory better than going through a shuffled deck or one in NDO an just picking out the cards in order. I also like to practice a lot of tricks using my stack, even if I don't do them for others much. It keeps it fresh. Nothing wrong with bashing through a memorized stack by rote. We end up forming our own associations and memory hooks anyway, and I think they work better than the phonetic-mnemonic systems since they are unique to the individual.
Message: Posted by: lcwright1964 (Jun 24, 2014 08:44PM)
[quote]On May 19, 2006, spycrapper wrote:
now I'm looking to buy Try The Impossible. is the book contain memorized deck effect?
thanks [/quote]

The last third of the book is devoted to tricks that specifically rely on the Aronson stack but which DON'T require memorization (though I think memorizing the stack helps one navigate around the deck a lot better). Earlier in the book there are memorized deck effects that, like most of such of effects in earlier Aronson books, are stack independent. My favourite is Twice As Hard, a CAAN effect that locates two cards using any memorized stack and the diabolical UnDo Influence principle. Any Aronson book is well worth the money, even if one only finds three or four favourite tricks in each.

Les
Message: Posted by: tpratt38 (Jul 23, 2014 02:18PM)
I am working on Mnemonic system for Aronson stack. I will post my system when I complete. But it is best for you to do you own associations with this method.

I was able to name the first 26 cards and the number within about 10 minutes. I used Mnemonic mainly for the mentalism effects. So I had that part down already. 1= gun I p pictured a boy with a shovel and gun in his hand going to a cemetery to bury something, which is jack of spades 1st card 2= shoe a man with a crown with a with a golf club looking for his ball with out shoes in the water, 2nd card king of clubs. 3= tree etc. This system allows for humor for me to remember and I can actually explain a few cards and how I memorize the cards to the audience. Doing for real is surprisingly the most unbelievable thing to the spectator they think something else always. I have a lot of fun with this.

Should have basic system within a week or so, I want to work the bugs out, and make as simple as possible.

Mentally Speaking have a great day.

Tim
TAP
Message: Posted by: RCM (Jul 29, 2014 11:58AM)
Another useful (and free) tool is Anki (http://ankisrs.net/), a program that lets you make flashcards on your computer. You can test yourself in random order, and in both directions ("The 12th card is ...?" and "The 9 of Clubs is the ...?"). You can customize both the cards and the tests. Best of all, Anki remembers which cards you find easy and which you find difficult, and tests the former less frequently than the latter. It makes memorizing a stack much more manageable, and makes practicing a breeze (a few minutes a day - no more than ten). I use it not only for a "true" memorized stack (like Mnemonica), but also to increase my speed with Osterlind's Breakthrough Card System, where each card leads to the next one.

If you use Harry Lorayne's methods to connect cards and numbers, coupled with Anki to test you and keep you up to speed, you'll have all the tools you need. Tamariz's tips and tricks in Mnemonica are just the (admittedly rich) icing on the cake.

Hope you find it useful!