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Topic: Bob Sanders' Silk equivalency Chart
Message: Posted by: James Adamson (Mar 14, 2006 07:10PM)
Here is (Poppa) Bob Sanders Silk Chart:

[b]Silks are measured by the straight hemmed edges and never diagonally.[/b]

For diamond cut silks

Product ----- Appears --- Takes the
Size --------- to be ------ Space of

9" ------------ 12" -------- 6"
12" ---------- 18" -------- 9"
18" ---------- 24" -------- 12"
24" ---------- 36" -------- 18"

For Square Silks
Silk Size---Area------Relative Size
Inches-----Sq. Ft-------12-----18-----24-----36

6----------0.25--------4.000---9.000---16.000--36.000
9----------0.5625-----1.1778--4.000---7.111---16.000
12---------1-----------1.000---2.250---4.000---9.000
18---------2.25-------0.444---1.000---1.778---4.000
24---------4-----------0.250---0.563---1.000---2.250
36---------9-----------0.111---0.250---0.444---1.000


Streamer
Size------------------------------Area
Inches----------Feet------------Square Ft.

1-------------- 3--------------0.25
4-------------- 3--------------1
4--------------30-------------10
8--------------30-------------20
12-------------12-------------12
12-------------24-------------24
36"------------- 6'--------------18
36"------------- 9'--------------27


Converting Square silks to Streamers:

Width of ---- Sq. Silk ---- Sq. Silk ---- Sq. Silk
Streamer -- 36" Wide -- 24" Wide -- 18" Wide
Wanted
12 inch ----- 9 feet ----- 4 feet ------ 2.25 feet
8 inch ----- 13.5 feet --- 6 feet ------ 3.375 feet
6 inch ----- 18 feet ----- 8 feet ------ 4.5 feet
4 inch ----- 27 feet ----- 12 feet ----- 6.75 feet

Use the largest silks you can because hems matter. Then just add them together to find how large a streamer of that momme will fit.

If it would hold two 36", one 24" and one 18" square silks, go to the width of the streamer and just add. If we want to use 12" streamers, we add 9'+9'+4'+2.25'= 24.25' of streamer. It won't hold a 30' one, but it will hold a 24' streamer 12" wide. If we drop to a streamer 8" wide it will hold a 36' one. Allow yourself any extra room that you can for the shape differences.

This little trick may help you to make a better decision before you buy something too large for the compartment. Remember that the opening that you pull the streamer through needs to be at least nearly half as wide as the streamer.

If you end up with a different momme silk, re-measure!

Bob Sanders"
Message: Posted by: fccfp (Mar 15, 2006 06:21AM)
Thanks James
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Mar 15, 2006 10:42PM)
James,

You're a one-man army. Thanks!


Bruce,

Thank you for the complement. Thanks also for putting off the burial.

Enjoy your silk magic.


Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Regan (Mar 16, 2006 05:33AM)
Thanks to all for posting the chart. This would have come in handy for me recently as I had to decide what size streamer to buy. Problem is, I didn't know about Bob's Chart. I calculated the square footage to make sure before I bought it, and it works perfect. Silks and streamers are expensive. It pays to know what you need before you buy.

And Bob, thanks for creating the Chart. We don't want to bury you yet.

Regan
Message: Posted by: silking (May 11, 2006 01:05PM)
Thanks Bob, this is great. I will print it out and place it in my Rices books.

Silking
Message: Posted by: chmara (Oct 26, 2006 11:27AM)
Thanks for that and even though I cannot do it, may I be as bold as to suggeset someone do (add) a momme part of the chart. If this too, affects compression, folding and lasting qualities of opacity. This would be a great sticky.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Nov 18, 2006 11:28AM)
Gregg,

Momme by any other name is still dead weight!

Momme has more to do with weight than anything else. Literally it is the weight in pounds of 100 yards of silk cloth 45 inches wide. (It is not a measure of quality but just content. Think of the cotton in a pair socks versus a tee shirt. It tells you nothing about the quality of either weave.)

However, a rule of thumb you can use is to make a ratio for space. Thus, if we were replacing our Rice priceless collectable 6 momme with a 5 momme, the calculation would be 5/6 = .83. So we would gain 17% more load space. Going the other way, if we replaced a 5 momme silk load with 8 momme silks 8/5 = 1.60. It would take 60% more space than before. (The formula is New Momme/ Old Momme.)

Except for art silks, going to a higher momme usually means just lost space and more money. (Although, the difference in cost is only about $.20/square foot.) Compression problems increase as momme increases. Hem bulk on the good hems also increases as the momme increases. And that can't help your show. Someday I hope we find a way so that silk isn't hemmed at all. It may take magic! We tried serging in the 70s and it was especially a disaster when silks were tied or used to support a load.

Enjoy!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: chmara (Nov 18, 2006 12:46PM)
Bob- thanks for your clarification on momme.

While I know the "stuffing" ratio is important to some -- I find that traveling with the heavier pieces gives them more chance of survival in many performances. Durability is the key for me.
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Feb 11, 2007 06:31AM)
Hey Bob,
Have you tried Fray Check for hemming? You get it in the fabric stores. It is similar to thin clear fingernail polish. I use this on all my cut diagonals. Works great and softens with use. It is a little bit stiff in the beginning.
Autumn
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Feb 11, 2007 10:53AM)
Autumn,

I have used Fray Check. And it does work. I would even recommend it where a snap, ring, or loop is sewn to a fine silk and there is a threat of the punctures separating the silk weave undesirably (runner).

I raised two kids alone and don't sew. Fray Check is an old friend!

Bob
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Feb 11, 2007 11:33AM)
Bob,
Raising two kids alone is like a mini-course in magic! I admire your Chutzpah! I bet "Stitch Witchery" (it hems clothes by fusing with an iron) and stick-on Velcro are also your good buddies! I agree with you completely about using the Fray Check before you stitch silk or put on a snap, etc.

A suggestion: If anyone uses "Fray Check", apply it to the silk BEFORE you cut it into a diagonal. Let it dry and then cut away! It's much easier this way and your silk will not ravel!
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jun 26, 2007 11:06PM)
Autumn,

You'll be proud. This week I restocked my little bottle of Dritz Fray Check. It works on some cotton rope ends too! (Getting wet won't hurt it.)

Bob Sanders
Magic by Sander
Message: Posted by: magicians (Feb 21, 2008 11:40AM)
We just had Bob as a lecturer in Leesburg, Fl., What a resource of knowledge on silks. I had him over to the house that night and the education continued. I dug out some older silk effects I had produced in the 80's, and solved a big "volume" problem I had with an effect called "Flagtastick".
I had been limited to using 3 9" acetate silks which at times bogged down the cane. I replaced them with three diamond cut pure silks which allowed me to speed up the cane production yet looked the same to the audience. The biggest problem solved was that there was a flag that has to be held in the hand, and it was a rayon flag. Very awkward, but by replacing it with a pure silk flag, the "load" became much more manageable and so muchso, that instead of an 18" flag, I could use a 24" flag which was still less volume than I had before.
This was a radical change for the effect, which meant I could re-release this item using 100% pure silks and 50% easier handling, and twice as fast of an effect.
Flagtastick received four stars in Genii years ago, the pure silk version is now available. (just recently ordered by Jeff McBride). http://magicians.podbean.com/blendo-tie/flagtastick/
Bravo, Bob.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Feb 26, 2008 10:52PM)
Thanks Ian!

I really enjoyed getting to spend time with you and watch how naturally you create magic. It's a gift!

People who don't get to see your lectures and DVDs have missed a lot.

Scheme! It makes magic.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- When you are up this way lecturing in April, I hope you spend some time here at the ranch. I look forward to thinking outside the box about magic with you. It's a treat. (Besides, I saw everything else, but no live unicorns at your place. We have them! Lucy uses them in her shows. You do win the prize for big magic birds.)
Message: Posted by: fyi2 (Jul 9, 2010 03:31PM)
Does anyone know where I can buy 9" diamonds?

I brought some 12" Diamonds, but they fill my TT so it wobbles, I am assuming a 9" DIamond may well solve my problem.

Thoughts?

Tony
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Feb 18, 2011 12:44AM)
"fyi2" I bought mine off Penguin Magic most sites sell them.
Message: Posted by: bowers (Nov 28, 2011 01:24PM)
There's a lot of valuable knowledge in this thread. Thanks to all for their contributions.
todd
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (May 17, 2012 08:52PM)
I am frequently asked about the diagonal measurements of diamond cut silks.

Here they are:

This should help.

Measured diagonally

24" Diamond Cut Silk is about 51" tip to tip but looks like a 36" square

18" Diamond Cut Silk is about 38" tip to tip but looks like a 24" square

12" Diamond Cut Silk is about 26" tip to tip but looks like an 18" square

9" Diamond Cut Silk is about 18" tip to tip but looks like a 12" square

Silks are measured by their sewn hemmed edges, not diagonally. (All four sides should measure the same.)