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Topic: Stigmata review
Message: Posted by: gink103 (Apr 17, 2006 02:45PM)
Well stigmata was just realeased and I'm currently downloading it. I will be done downloading it in about 3 hours lol because my connection sucks at college. If anyone finishes downloading it and wants to give a review please do because I want to know if its worth all the hype.
Message: Posted by: magicpro212 (Apr 17, 2006 07:23PM)
I really don't see whats the big hype with this effect. Banachec Already has it out.
So its not like its a new thing.

Wanye is just pulling a magican, by changing something slighyly and calling it his own. Oh well.

Best of luck.
Message: Posted by: Red Von (Apr 17, 2006 08:19PM)
Pretty much a rip off effect!!
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Apr 17, 2006 11:10PM)
From Ellusionist? You don't say... :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: Phil C (Apr 18, 2006 12:21AM)
I'm also curious how this is different from the one in PSI Series 2
Message: Posted by: Joey Stalin (Apr 18, 2006 12:25AM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-17 21:19, Red Von wrote:
Pretty much a rip off effect!!

[/quote]

Oh yeah, especially sinse Banachec (sp?) is in the DVD Houchin put out. Obviously if he was getting ripped off he would appear in Wayne's dvd.
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Apr 18, 2006 12:45AM)
It's the same effect packaged differently with all the cool marketing of Ellusionist. Everyone gets a cut of the profits and everyone's happy. Everyone except for the people who end up buying one effect, when they could have bought the Banachek DVD and gotten much more for their money. E's done it with almost everything they sell. I mean come on, $30 for the revolution. You can find a hundred variations of that effect in Bobo's.
Message: Posted by: magicpro212 (Apr 18, 2006 04:16AM)
Well that's magic folks.
Message: Posted by: Matt Malinas (Apr 18, 2006 04:42AM)
I like this effect because it's impromptu but I wouldn't purchase it that's for sure. and about ellusionist , if you decide to purchase from them be sure to get as much insight as possible on the effect you want to get. because , as raphlo2 said , most of the effects are rip offs. the prices are horribly high.
so , I hope you will like stigmata , now that you have it. I really hope that it was worth the money to you.
all the best

-Matt
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Apr 18, 2006 10:39AM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-18 05:16, magicpro212 wrote:
Well that's magic folks.
[/quote]
Well, it's a new wave of magic. Thanks to the whole street magic phenomenon. But really, what I call the real magic, the stuff that's lasted through the years isn't. I'm talking about old books, instructional dvds etc. And it's a shame really the state of magic today as it's turned into a quick wham bam buy this trick and impress your friends artform, and not the craft that it takes years to perfect.
Message: Posted by: jayp (Apr 18, 2006 03:30PM)
I got this yesterday, and before I got it I was worried that I would be just wasting my money since I already knew the principle used from Body Magic...but I am very very happy to say I was not disappointed at all! Wayne is a thrill to watch and the teaching is very thorough, every aspect from performance to sleights used etc. are covered in tremendous detail and for $29.95 I wouldnt say its hugely expensive, I mean you get 3 routines for that price, several slieghts (you should know them, but if you don't you soon will!) and performance tips. Agreed if you don't have the classic books don't buy this instead but keep it on your list!

Jamie.
Message: Posted by: bradchristian (Apr 18, 2006 05:35PM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-18 05:42, Matt Malinas wrote:
I like this effect because it's impromptu but I wouldn't purchase it that's for sure. and about ellusionist , if you decide to purchase from them be sure to get as much insight as possible on the effect you want to get. because , as raphlo2 said , most of the effects are rip offs. the prices are horribly high.
so , I hope you will like stigmata , now that you have it. I really hope that it was worth the money to you.
all the best

-Matt
[/quote]


Hi Matt!

Do you have some actual facts you can base that accusation on? I, for one, would love to hear them.

Thanks, Brad.
Message: Posted by: Banachek (Apr 18, 2006 05:55PM)
IF you are going to use an effect and make money with it, it is worth thousands. $30 is a steal for an effect that will give you a lifetime of use. Just my opinion.
Message: Posted by: magicpro212 (Apr 18, 2006 09:53PM)
Bancheck:The effect was already published by you so whats so new here?
Message: Posted by: gink103 (Apr 19, 2006 05:00PM)
I have mixed feelings about ellusionist. I am a loyal customer but I have had some dissapointments on some of the effects from them. When ellusionist advertises an effect they don't give an accurate description of an effect if it makes the effect seem less amazing. For example "What if you could walk up to someone and tell them to think of a person, someone they care about and tell them to sqeeze your wrist and squeeze hard. When they let go there are red mards from where they were squuezing. What if you could cause the marks to visually rearange themselves to form the initials of the person they were thinking of?" Now in the preview video ellusionist never actually shows the effect being performed, so it plays amateur magicians to almost beleive in magic. here is the description of the effect on the page.

From Ellusionist and acclaimed performer Wayne Houchin (creator of Sinful, the signed coin through soda can) comes Stigmata.

The spectator thinks of anything. A name. A number. A memory. With the thought in mind, the spectator squeezes your wrist. Tightly.

When the spectator releases, red marks appear on your arm where they were squeezing. These marks of blood under the skin then slowly, visually, clearly re-arrange themselves into the shape of the spectator's selection. Seeing is believing.

technically Ellusionist is not lieing, they are just picking and chosing the parts of the effects that make it seem completely impossible. This is the actual variation of how the trick is.

You walk up to someone and pull out a business card and tell them to think of a person that is important to them, someone they care about. you tell them to write the name of the person on a business card while you are looking away and not to show anyone. You take back the business card and try and predict their selection. You tell them to reopen the business card and just write the first initial very large and circle it. You tell the spectater to squeeze your wrist and to squeeze hard and to visualize the initial of the person. After they let go they can see the red marks from where they were squeezing. The red marks visually FADE and the initial of the person they were thinking of appears in red on your arm.

That is an accurate description of the trick. This is an awesome trick and I give it an 8.5/10 but I think by ellusionist giving misleading claims that younger magicians tend to fall easily for them and will be dissapointed in the effect. This can causee ellusionist to eventually loose its young street magician fan base. Also Ellusionist should have more unbiased reviews by people, such as how penguin magic has it. When I buy from penguin I know the reviews are by regular magicians that bought the product and aren't edited by the staff.

Just my 2 cents
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Apr 19, 2006 06:45PM)
Search these forums, Banachek has already stated where this version is an improvement over what he previously put in his DVD.

Ellusionist offers plenty of full, unedited reviews, both positive and negative. They're in the forums on their site.

They take snippets of those reviews for their product page, but the full reviews are available.

Kevin
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Apr 19, 2006 09:57PM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-19 18:00, gink103 wrote:
I have mixed feelings about ellusionist. I am a loyal customer but I have had some dissapointments on some of the effects from them. When ellusionist advertises an effect they don't give an accurate description of an effect if it makes the effect seem less amazing. For example "What if you could walk up to someone and tell them to think of a person, someone they care about and tell them to sqeeze your wrist and squeeze hard. When they let go there are red mards from where they were squuezing. What if you could cause the marks to visually rearange themselves to form the initials of the person they were thinking of?" Now in the preview video ellusionist never actually shows the effect being performed, so it plays amateur magicians to almost beleive in magic. here is the description of the effect on the page.

From Ellusionist and acclaimed performer Wayne Houchin (creator of Sinful, the signed coin through soda can) comes Stigmata.

The spectator thinks of anything. A name. A number. A memory. With the thought in mind, the spectator squeezes your wrist. Tightly.

When the spectator releases, red marks appear on your arm where they were squeezing. These marks of blood under the skin then slowly, visually, clearly re-arrange themselves into the shape of the spectator's selection. Seeing is believing.

technically Ellusionist is not lieing, they are just picking and chosing the parts of the effects that make it seem completely impossible. This is the actual variation of how the trick is.

You walk up to someone and pull out a business card and tell them to think of a person that is important to them, someone they care about. you tell them to write the name of the person on a business card while you are looking away and not to show anyone. You take back the business card and try and predict their selection. You tell them to reopen the business card and just write the first initial very large and circle it. You tell the spectater to squeeze your wrist and to squeeze hard and to visualize the initial of the person. After they let go they can see the red marks from where they were squeezing. The red marks visually FADE and the initial of the person they were thinking of appears in red on your arm.

That is an accurate description of the trick. This is an awesome trick and I give it an 8.5/10 but I think by ellusionist giving misleading claims that younger magicians tend to fall easily for them and will be dissapointed in the effect. This can causee ellusionist to eventually loose its young street magician fan base. Also Ellusionist should have more unbiased reviews by people, such as how penguin magic has it. When I buy from penguin I know the reviews are by regular magicians that bought the product and aren't edited by the staff.

Just my 2 cents
[/quote]
That's completely different from what they describe in their advertisement and that's exactly what I'm talking about. It borders on false advertising. It gives off the impression that there are no forces being used, when in fact that is completely false. And as far as Penguin is concerned, they're just as guilty of writing their own reviews. Trust me.
Message: Posted by: Essie (Apr 21, 2006 01:22PM)
Well, there is another variation shown on the video where you have a spectator grab your wrist, think of any number between 1 and 10, and then it appears on your arm as soon as they let go (without them ever saying it aloud or writing it down or anything). That's literally exactly what takes place. Granted, it's kind of risky, but for the type of reactions you could get, I think it would probably be worth it. I just got the DVD yesterday, so I haven't actually performed it for anyone yet. I'll put up more info after I've been able to perform it several times.
Message: Posted by: williamtbrady (Apr 21, 2006 01:50PM)
Guys.

I agree that the advertisment does not explain the effect fully - but that's beside the point, it explains the effect from the SPECTATORS point of view.
That's the most important bit and the thing to remember, it's how the spectator perceives what has happened.

I too was a little doubtful and then dissapointed with this effect.
But I gave it a try and performed the version with the name on the card.

I can honestly say, in all my years of magic, this has gotten the best reaction to date - one guy had tears in his eye's as the initial appeared on my arm, and when I then said the full name he just freaked.
He knows I am a magician but did not even think it was a trick, he actually believed I was 'reading' his eyes to get the name, one guy said he would easy believe the stigmata was something 'spiritual' if had not known it was somehow a trick.

I think if I had seen this trick in a book with 100 others for $10 I would have read it and passed it by.

But to see it performed and then taught on video makes all the difference, you can see the power of the effect that just can not be appreciated in a book.

Worth every penny - buy it - try it - make a real reputation for your self..


Thanks to Wayne, Banacheck & Brad for releasing this :)
Message: Posted by: mc_magi (Apr 21, 2006 11:07PM)
[quote]

But to see it performed and then taught on video makes all the difference, you can see the power of the effect that just can not be appreciated in a book.

[/quote]
I don't quite agree with that.. as long as imaginations there, reading will get attention and appreciation.

And... even if it was still argued that video > books,
while you might not be able to appreciate the effect through books, at least there'd be much less clones.
Message: Posted by: Bob Saget Rocks (Apr 23, 2006 02:46PM)
So, how difficult is it to perform this? What kind of setup?
Message: Posted by: Essie (Apr 23, 2006 03:08PM)
There's pretty much no setup (as long as you have cards or a business card, if you're going to do those variations). A little misdirection is required, but it's not a big deal at all. Really, presentation is the main thing here, since the method is really straight-forward. It's really cool how the mark appears from the finger marks left from their hand. I've performed this several times over the last few days, and I'm still amazed at how intense the reactions are. I think it's definitely worth checking into.
Message: Posted by: mc_magi (Apr 23, 2006 07:09PM)
[quote]
Brad has done a brilient job making magic cool and
exciting.. yes you can perform the old rabbit out of the hat found in the
old magic books and read the old patter from the old books, but please.
[/quote]
.......I strongly disagree with what you said about "old magic books"
There are plentiful of good and visual magic in books written in the "olden" days. The concepts, ideas and methods are still being reinvented these days so on what ground are you putting those comments about books?
Magic doesn't need video file/ad to be cool. If the persona's there, if you have that talent, there is no need to copy mainstream magic. It's cool on its own.
Message: Posted by: frenchmagi (Apr 23, 2006 09:20PM)
Very true. I couldn't agree more. When I first started magic as a teenager, it definitely was because I thought it was "cool". And in that respect I think Ellusionist does a great job at luring kids in. But as I got older I started to develop a newfound respect for magic as an art form. And in that respect books and teachings by the old timers have become more than just tricks to me. What surprises me is how much less I spend on magic nowadays, when in reality that's the material that should have a high price tag...not the single over marketed so called "cool" one.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Apr 24, 2006 09:53AM)
Old rabbit out of the hat tricks in books...? What? James, are you serious?
Message: Posted by: Bill Abbott (Apr 24, 2006 10:36AM)
James George,

I agree that Ellusionist has brought the "cool" factor way up in terms of how magic is marketed.
I think Stigmata is a great impromptu effect. Wayne Houchin has done a nice job of making this a "working piece".

That being said...
I take great pride in my "old rabbit out of the hat trick" books.
Yes the scripting is old, occasionally the methods are outdated and the presentations are not exactly 'Blainesque'.

However, it is in these "old" books where the effect "Blood Writing" is found.
It's found in The Magic of Jimmy Grippo, entitled "Blood Writing" and in John Fisher's book Body Magic, body trick #96.

"Remember it is far easier to kick over a sand castle then it is to build one. "
James George

I would argue that Ellusionist is "re-building" old sand castles and packaging them as new ones.
There's nothing wrong with that, but if we don't know where we came from than we don't know where we are going.

Bill Abbott
Message: Posted by: Bob Saget Rocks (Apr 24, 2006 04:11PM)
Everyone has mixed feelings on this. Just one simple question for all who have purchased it. "Are you glad you paid $30 for it?"

and one more thing...is it at all easy to get caught? And How simple of a method is it...meaning, can someone figure it out after doing it to them mroe than once?
Message: Posted by: SleepingJag (Apr 24, 2006 09:58PM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-24 17:11, Bob Saget Rocks wrote:
Everyone has mixed feelings on this. Just one simple question for all who have purchased it. "Are you glad you paid $30 for it?"

and one more thing...is it at all easy to get caught? And How simple of a method is it...meaning, can someone figure it out after doing it to them mroe than once?
[/quote]
Yes I am happy with this DVD.

But there are some that haven't even purchased the effect who seems to be able to review it.
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Apr 24, 2006 10:48PM)
[quote]
...yes you can perform the old rabbit out of the hat found in the
old magic books and read the old patter from the old books, but please.

don't plan on being cool.. plan on being a corny magician who belongs on the
shelf with the buggy whip...

James George
[/quote]

Jimfromsac, you've got to be kidding: "old rabbit out of the hat" found in the "old magic books"????

I'd like you to think about that after seeing Dai Vernon or Slydini perform. They were anything but "corny". Ever read Tarbell? How about Bobo's Modern Coin Magic?

What is really "new" about anything? What you might consider "new" and "cool" is just a repackaged, re-routined, chic'd up version of an idea taken from those "old rabbit out of the hat" books.

While Mr. Houchin has added some clever ideas to this age old art, I'm sure he would agree that they didn't develop in a historical void.
Message: Posted by: Essie (Apr 25, 2006 12:48PM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-24 17:11, Bob Saget Rocks wrote:
Everyone has mixed feelings on this. Just one simple question for all who have purchased it. "Are you glad you paid $30 for it?"

and one more thing...is it at all easy to get caught? And How simple of a method is it...meaning, can someone figure it out after doing it to them mroe than once?
[/quote]


I'm very happy to have spent $30 on it. For the reactions you get, it's definitely worth it.

From my experiences performing it so far, it seems pretty hard to get caught. The misdirection is perfect, so it's not really a big deal. I performed it 3 different times yesterday for crowds averaging about ten people or so, mostly made up of different people, but there were a couple of spectators that saw it all three times and had no clue how it was done (they actually got more confused since I had different numbers/letter appear each time and they had initially assumed it was a one-time type of trick). I should point out that I was doing the variation where you have them pick a card and the value appears on your arm, and that the other variations might be marginally harder to get away with (though it's still not much of an issue). Also, you'd probably not want to repeat the other variations since the effect would be diminished (in my opinion). Anyway, the reactions you get with this are definitely worth it. A couple of days ago someone actually screamed when the mark appeared (with the variation where they think of a name). I'd definitely recommend checking it out if it fits in with your performing style.
Message: Posted by: Steve Brooks (Apr 26, 2006 07:04AM)
For those of you who are interested, I've posted my review of [b]Stigmata[/b] [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=160558&forum=68&0]Here![/url]. Enjoy. :smoke:
Message: Posted by: Cody Fisher (Apr 26, 2006 01:00PM)
That was a great review Steve. Thanks for the informative information.
Message: Posted by: Gary (Apr 26, 2006 01:17PM)
Agree! Nice to see a comprehensive and balanced review of this.
Message: Posted by: MBrook3902 (Apr 26, 2006 03:38PM)
The disc is going in the DVD player right...now!
Message: Posted by: Steve Brooks (Apr 26, 2006 11:26PM)
Thanks everyone. I try and be as honest as possible whenever I review anything. :)
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Apr 27, 2006 03:20PM)
Have to say right off the bat that this is a beautifully produced DVD and oozes professionalism. Wayne is a natural on camera and offers a calm well ordered delivery style that's easy to watch and understand. The actual performances are fun and entertaining. I'd pay to see this guy's show...hey wait...I just did.

My DVD order came almost instantaneously, the fastest I think I've gotten anything I've ordered through the mail! So kudos to the Ellusionist order/shipping dept as well.

I really like the switches between the color and black and white...but that's me...love that B&W stuff. All shots are Crystal Clear without the crappy MTV jiggles some camera folk like to throw in. This DVD is for LEARNIN'.

All in all an excellent value, as well presented as it could be. (No dancing girls)

The trick itself is a stunner and the methods offered are all solid and not difficult to pull off. I must say though that from reading the Café posts prior to recieveing the DVD, I did figure out how to accomplish the effect (in fact I think the method I stumbled on is nastier and more 'in your face' than either Wayne's or Steven B's) but the DVD contains a lot of info you should have even if you do know the effect.

I'd say a 9 out of 10 is well deserved. I'll save the 10 for the Dancin' Girls.

Higley
Message: Posted by: johnra (Apr 29, 2006 03:40PM)
Well it seems lie the craze for Stigmata has blown over. I think its a great effect I don't have waynes version yet I have the banachek version Im hoping for my birthday I can get waynes. Well tell me how it all works for you.
John
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Apr 29, 2006 05:21PM)
Works great for me. I've performed this only 3 times so far, but each time has been met with wonderful reactions.

Kevin
Message: Posted by: niva (Apr 30, 2006 01:55AM)
It is true that many of the effects of nowadays already existed and they were restructured so to speak. But we must admit that some of these reworkings are phenomenal and really take the effect in particular to greater heights.

Another example is pyro perception. The basic idea already existed but it took one guy to do it with cards and it is great.

Take Cyril, who's taking Japan by storm. Many of the tricks he does are old effects brought ot the 21st century. That's it. But he does it so greatly.

Finally I would like to bring out a real day comparison, although some don't like these analogies. We all drive cars, but more or less they work on the same old basic principles that started from the Model T.
Message: Posted by: doiron (May 4, 2006 05:25PM)
I agree that the art of magic is constantly evolving. There are many new variations on old themes that make the effects much stronger. I'm always thrilled to see a magician make a sometimes minor change in handling and observe how the trick improves way out of proportion to the size of the alteration.

However - to say that the old books are "corny" and to suggest you can't be "cool" using those tricks is so absolutely wrong it's hard to believe that a real magician would say it.

Where do you think many of the ideas for recent effects came from? It's a great exercise to pick up one of the classics every so often and read through them again. Sometimes you'll see an effect you totally dismissed and will decide to work on it now to great results. Sometimes you'll see a trick you used to do but somehow just stopped doing - like it just fell off your mind like an old joke. And sometimes you'll see an effect that twigs an idea in you to work on something original.

To say that these books are no longer valuable is to insult the memories of some of the greatest contributors to magic of all time.
Message: Posted by: MBrook3902 (May 7, 2006 05:06AM)
I have also performed this effect several times and the reactions have been great. One lady grabbed the cards (ha, ha!) and kept asking me to do it again. So, a bit later I did with her watching for the 2nd time. She still didn't get it. No one has. Great misdirection. This has been money well spent.
Message: Posted by: Bob Saget Rocks (May 30, 2006 06:27PM)
[quote]
On 2006-05-07 06:06, MBrook3902 wrote:
I have also performed this effect several times and the reactions have been great. One lady grabbed the cards (ha, ha!) and kept asking me to do it again. So, a bit later I did with her watching for the 2nd time. She still didn't get it. No one has. Great misdirection. This has been money well spent.
[/quote]

Agreed. I just got this and I think it's awesome~When I first viewed the business card variation, I thought misdirection would be difficult, but it's so easy! The only flaw I would say is the 3rd variation where they think of a number 1-10 and it appears on your arm....it's a little ridiculous as it does not work everytime. He suggests using 3 people and that should ALWAYS work, but still...i don't like taking risks; as this variation is pure luck.
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 30, 2006 07:37PM)
[quote]
On 2006-04-26 14:17, Gary wrote:
Agree! Nice to see a comprehensive and balanced review of this.
[/quote]

Here, here. It was right on the mark!! I wish all reviews were like that!
Message: Posted by: JohnCressman (Jul 19, 2006 03:17PM)
I learned the Banachek version from the PSI series but have never been able to perform it since the marks don't show up no matter what I do.

Does this introduce any new techniques that might make the marks show up? I've always thought it was a great performance piece and would love to learn a new way to actually get the marks to stay... short of acid, napalm or high power laser beam.
Message: Posted by: JohnCressman (Jul 19, 2006 03:23PM)
Doiron,

While I agree that old illusions can still be great today... the people ARE right when they say they are "corny"... or at least, partially right.

Let's face it, with special effects in movies the way they are, we have a MUCH more sophisticated audience today than in previous generations. Not to mention, internet discimination of tricks, magicians who have revealed various illusions, etc.

Consequently, the audience today is more sophisticated and demand better performances. It's not that the tricks themselves are corny (well, some are), but the patter/performance needs to be updated from time to time to deal with the audience.
Message: Posted by: the levitator (Jul 20, 2006 12:13AM)
With a slight modification to the routine, you can make just about anything appear. I did the routine with a PCT and had a persons full first name appear (the name was Alicia). I don't think my little addition is revolutionary, in fact I would almost assume others are doing the same thing with it. It just allows me to be more elaborate in what information can be revealed. If anyone's interested, just PM me.

This is one of my favorite new routines to perform and will be in my bag for a long time! :)
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Jul 20, 2006 01:12PM)
Stigmata is a very versitile effect.,it could be a name,place,number,ect.thins is one reason I use it almost every day.
Message: Posted by: sleightofhand1 (Aug 5, 2006 04:16AM)
I think this effect is really really good.
I have used it many times, and always get gasps.
one woman brings it up everytime I see her.
Message: Posted by: nbps05 (Aug 7, 2006 05:27PM)
Stigmata is amazing the reactions you get is unbelievable
Message: Posted by: joseph (Oct 14, 2006 08:06AM)
Do Stigmata on one wrist, then the Sliding Tan Line on the other.... :) ..
Message: Posted by: Glogal (Oct 20, 2006 09:35AM)
The first time I performed Stigmata the reactions were awesome. What a wonderful effect!
Gigi
Message: Posted by: M@gic Man (Nov 7, 2006 05:28AM)
Is it true that you can have any THOUGHT OF number or name appear, as advertised?
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Nov 7, 2006 07:49PM)
Yes. You need to use a c****** f**** and a p*** which Wayne teaches in the DVD.