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Topic: Sleights-practice with non-dominant hand
Message: Posted by: BobGreaves (May 7, 2006 12:40PM)
I am starting to practice sleights with my non-dominant hand, after I have them in a reasonable state with my dominant hand. It seems like a good idea, although I truthfully can't say that I have found any real use.
Does anyone else do this? And, if you do, do you have think it gives you any recognisable benefits?
Message: Posted by: Jaz (May 7, 2006 12:50PM)
Kainoa use both hands in his "Coins on Edge" book and yes, it can be a benefit.

I do some sleights with both but not many.

There are topics here:


and here where I see you already posted
Message: Posted by: BobGreaves (May 7, 2006 01:39PM)
Thankyou Jaz, you are more on the ball than I. I had completely forgotten that I had looked at these a while back!
I feel embarrassed now (put it down to a "senior moment"). Perhaps I should practice using both sides of my brain (or even one side).
I have been drinking Belgian beer this evening though (apart from its wonderful flavour it's 8%).
Message: Posted by: Jaz (May 7, 2006 01:42PM)
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (May 7, 2006 06:10PM)
LOL!i agree with Jaz it is always good to have a good palm with both hands(you never know when it will come in handy).
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (May 7, 2006 07:17PM)
Being able to perform sleights and moves with both hands makes you a more versatile magician. You won't need to manipulate positions of the coins in order to facilitate a move, which makes your magic look that much cleaner.
Message: Posted by: BobGreaves (May 8, 2006 07:16AM)
I am also interested in the mental-physical learning process of the manipulative aspects.
I have noticed for years (other physical skills than magic) that if one practises hard then stops for a few days then the skill doesn't stop getting better nor does it decline, but it keeps improving on its own. It's as though, once the momentum has started, the brain-muscle coordination still continues to develop. (You can sometimes notice this when after getting frustrated with something, you put it down. When you pick it up at a later date the task seems easy).
I have also noticed that if a sleight is learned with my dominant hand then the speed of learning with the non-dominant hand is much quicker.
I am wondering if there might be some reverse improvements: for example if I start to learn a sleight from the beginning with my non-dominant hand, then how much of a speed-up would occur in my dominant hand.
Sorry for not being very specific, but I wonder if anyone else has experience comments in this direction?
Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (May 8, 2006 11:42AM)
I'm a lefty. Since at least 95% of sleight-of-hand routines are written from a right-handed perspective, we lefties have to reverse-engineer pretty much everything we learn. Now, as simple as it may seem to merely substitute right for left while reading the text, it can actually be very confusing (at least for me. :)) So, what I do is learn and practice a routine exactly the way it's written (i.e., with my non-dominant hand) and then, once I've got the overall flow of the movements down, I switch hands and run through it a few times the other way. Only then do I decide which way works better for me. As a result, I've gotten fairly proficient (emphasis on "fairly" ;)) with many sleights using either hand.

One other point: There are certain moves that I simply will never be able to perform with my right hand as well as my left. No matter how many times I've tried, I just [i]can't[/i] back palm a coin in my right hand; and my right classic palm will [i]never[/i] be as good as my left. For this reason, I've adopted different methodologies for some moves, depending on which hands hold the coins. For example, my right-to-left shuttle pass is completely different from my left-to-right shuttle pass, etc. I also believe that mixing it up a little makes these sleights look a little less "forced" to our audiences.
Message: Posted by: info2victor (May 8, 2006 12:07PM)
I'm a lefty as well. And yes, most of the time I have to learn the effect substituting the word "right" with "left". I don't know why, but the truth is there are really moves that the non-dominant hand can't do while the dominant one can. Say I can't do a deep back grip with my right but I learnt to do it with my left quickly.

Having said that, I agree with posts above saying practising with both hands is good. There are indeed nice effects requiring both hands doing the same sleights. And the good thing is once your donminant hand get used to the sleight, your non-dominant hand can mirror it, making the learning process faster.

Talking about the mental-physical learning process... I guess there is a term called "muscle memory"... ha ha~
Message: Posted by: STFC (May 11, 2006 01:41AM)
Another leftie here. I have found that some sleights I will learn and then perfect with a the left and others with the right. funny because I can not do anything else with my right hand but can still do a better click pass with the right??????

Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (May 11, 2006 12:17PM)
Yep. Me too. That's why I use two different click passes, depending on which hand the coins are in. Roth's "Floperino"-type click pass is great. (It's on his [i]Expert Coin Magic Made Easy[/i] series, Volume 2 I think.)
Message: Posted by: dominik (May 11, 2006 12:25PM)
Classic Palm und Multiple Lower Downs Palm are the only moves I do with both hands.
Message: Posted by: Matt Malinas (May 11, 2006 04:49PM)
Classic palm and Goshman Pinch are the ones I do with both hands.
learning the goshman pinch with my non-dominant hand really paid off ;)

Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (May 11, 2006 06:20PM)
I highly recommend it with coins. The nice thing about getting your chops down with both hands with coins is the technique transfers to Billiard Balls, etc. nicely and thus plays double duty. Best,
Message: Posted by: dave100 (May 14, 2006 02:55PM)
Can I just reccommend joe rindfleisch's extreme coin magic dvd he is a lefty, which might be useful for some of you guys.
Message: Posted by: dominik (May 16, 2006 05:49AM)
On 2006-05-14 15:55, dave100 wrote:
Can I just reccommend joe rindfleisch's extreme coin magic dvd he is a lefty, which might be useful for some of you guys.

You may. It is an excellent DVD.
Message: Posted by: Rindfleisch (May 18, 2006 01:55PM)
When I wrote my lecture notes I wrote them for a lefty then when I was finished I used the find and replace feature. Left for the characters mesdds then right to left then mesdds to right it worked out great.

So I think I did everything left, for the most part. :0

Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (May 18, 2006 03:15PM)
That's almost exactly how I do it, Joe. Great minds think alike, I guess. ;)

Just curious; is there some significance to the characters "mesdds"?
Message: Posted by: sepaternoster (May 18, 2006 07:57PM)
I too am a lefty, and I have also found it confusing to try to swap the instructions. So I learn to do it as written and seldom bother to adapt it later. As a result, my right hand has become my dominant hand for magic. However, the left is always ready and strong when needed (for change-overs, etc.)

Message: Posted by: Rindfleisch (May 18, 2006 08:21PM)
I use something that will not show up in my document so I don't mess up the document while I do the find/ replace process.
Message: Posted by: Rob Elliott (May 19, 2006 12:18PM)
Oh, OK. Since you told us the actual characters you use, I just thought they might mean something.