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Topic: DAY from any DATE (13 steps to mentalism)
Message: Posted by: papawemba (Dec 6, 2002 03:21AM)
Hi everyone,

I am very interested for this trick to work but I'm a litle confused! The book talks about a date in the 19th and 20th century but what about the 21 century?

*Do you know how to make it work for future date (2003-2004-...)?

*I founded a way but it is not "pure" :)
Let's take "June 28, 2002" and "June 28, 2003"

for example:

1. June 28, 2002:

- 0 (month index) +28 (day) +0 (quarter of 02) = 28/7 gives 7 for rest. 7 - 2 (don't know why) =5 so it's a Friday (Monday being 1)

2. June 28, 2003:
- 0 (month index) +28 (day) +0 (quarter of 03) = 28/7 gives 7 for rest. 7 - 1 (don't know why) =6 so it's a Saturday (Monday being 1)

3. June 28, 2001:
- 0 (month index) +28 (day) +0 (quarter of 01) = 28/7 gives 7 for rest. 7 - 3 (don't know why) =4 so it's a Thursday (Monday being 1)

You can see, the only difference is the number you substract at the end (here 7)
This method seems to work but do you know any others?

Thanks a lot,
Nicolas (Belgium)
Message: Posted by: sweetcarl (Dec 6, 2002 05:08AM)
Nicolas,

Check out the folowing link (if you don't already know it). It explains everything brilliantly.

http://members.aol.com/beagenius/calendar.html
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Dec 6, 2002 05:39AM)
For the 21st centurey, just take one day away. If the answer is Friday in the 20th century, the answer is Thursday in the 21st century, if the answer is Wednesday in the 20th century, the answer is Tuesday in the 21st century, etc.

Mikael
Message: Posted by: papawemba (Dec 6, 2002 06:47AM)
Thank's a lot for responding, It is very helpful!
The link you show seems effectively very good :)

Thank's again!
Nicolas
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Dec 6, 2002 02:26PM)
Jack Dean's "You were There" makes this effect very easy and gives a prediction at the end.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
Message: Posted by: mystic1 (Dec 7, 2002 02:05AM)
The existence of secret ways to make such a calculation should be protected from the prying eyes of the public and magic dabblers.

I think this thread should be moved to the INSIDE mentalism section,
Message: Posted by: MarkFarrar (Dec 7, 2002 10:32AM)
I learned a method many years ago from a book called "Instant Memory" by Robert Harbin.
Message: Posted by: AllThumbs (Dec 7, 2002 10:56AM)
Although it probably doesn't rank in the "Top Secret" category (as Mark Farrar indicates MANY memory books detail the method - this is where I learnt it) the methods are used by mentalists today and as such shouldn't really be discussed in public, don't you think?

Regards,

Kris Sheglova
Message: Posted by: noncom (Dec 7, 2002 11:11AM)
Putting the words "calculate day date" into Google comes up with a load of sites in an instant which tell you how to perform this feat. As such, I hardly think it qualifies as secret at all.

Those of you that perform this, how do you "sell" it? As a supernatural power, a feat of gigantic memory, or simply as a calculation (pretending it's more difficult than it is)? Does it really get great reactions?

And am I the only one to have noticed that, having only just reached the magic 50 posts, mystic1 suddenly wants everything moved to the secret sessions?


Just wondered.....
;)

andy
Message: Posted by: fhood (Dec 8, 2002 04:28PM)
Yes, I have the same question as Nomcom above. How would a mentalist utilize this date calculation principle anyway? I guess the basic premise would be that someone gives you a meaningful date (month, day, and year), and the mentalist would be able to say what day of the week that date fell on, right? Is that the extent of using this principle? And would it really get that big of a reaction from somebody??

Does anyone know an effective way to use this day-of-the-week calculation principle in a routine??

Thanks!

P.S. I am relatively new to mentalism, and have just ordered Annemann's Mental Bargain Effects and a book by Corinda that someone else recommended on this site! I'm trying to teach myself the basics!
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Dec 8, 2002 05:23PM)
Again, as an answer to your question I turn your attention to "You were there" by Jack Dean which not only displays an impressive "memory" effect to your audience (which also has a book of calendars for all those years to verify this) but also finishes with a prediction making it a great routine. Sorry if this seems like a shameless plug but Jack Dean was a great thinker when it came to ideas like this and he really did elevate it to a higher level than just a stunt.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/Abstagecraft
Message: Posted by: Lior (Dec 9, 2002 05:10AM)
It is very easy to learn it for this year.
That's all you need
Message: Posted by: papawemba (Dec 9, 2002 06:52AM)
I’m very sorry for the inconvenience but I didn't know where to put this thread (If possible, I can erase the lines being to detailed) :idea:
Thanks for the proposition of Jack Dean's
"You were there" which looks great but I prefer this to be impromptu (and living in Belgium, the postage will cost me the price of the trick!!).
Although, it begins to be more difficult than I thought! :eek:

Regards,
Nicolas :)
Message: Posted by: John Clarkson (Dec 9, 2002 09:49AM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-07 12:11, noncom wrote:

And am I the only one to have noticed that, having only just reached the magic 50 posts, mystic1 suddenly wants everything moved to the secret sessions?

Just wondered.....
;)

andy
[/quote]

I noticed, too, but was not so kind. I figured he was "padding his posts" with constant rejoinders about secrecy in order to [i]attain[/i] the 50 post mark.
:nose:

[quote]
On 2002-12-09 07:52, papawemba wrote:
I’m very sorry for the inconvenience but I didn't know where to put this thread (If possible, I can erase the lines being to detailed) :idea:
Regards,
Nicolas :)
[/quote]

I wouldn't worry too much about it, Nicolas. No matter what you talk about, [i]some[/i] self-professed guardian of the secrets is going to complain. It gets a little silly at times: after all, mentalists use math; can we not utter the word "addition," then? And since we use our voices in performances, a discussion of "vocal cords" is right out! The method you asked about is commonly known, even taught in some high school math classes.

:nose:
Message: Posted by: papawemba (Dec 9, 2002 10:20AM)
Ok, thanks clarkson!
Message: Posted by: Brash (Dec 9, 2002 12:02PM)
John, your constant derision of mentalists in general based on the comments of a few, is tiresome. Aside from proving your skill with the English language, and vocabulary, is it really any better than those posts your refer to? If you wish to comment on a specific post, do so, your broad comments in this and other threads are an insult to the majority of serious students of mentalism. Thanks.

back on topic...

Day for Date can be an impressive mental skill, and combined with other methods can make a good compliment to any routine. IMO it can be presented in a manner which allows multiple interpretations (mindreading, super memory, math skill) and will impress your audience in different ways.

Consider revealing a thought of date, (such as an anniversary) and beginning by revealing the day of the week. This can significantly enhance your presentation.
Message: Posted by: noncom (Dec 9, 2002 12:19PM)
Nice thought, Brian. Thanks. I'd only ever considered the possibility Corinda talks about of having a series of dates named and then revealing the day of the week in a dull and pointless way.

Perhaps I'll try and learn it now :)

Andy
Message: Posted by: John Clarkson (Dec 9, 2002 05:49PM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-09 13:02, Brash wrote:
John, your constant derision of mentalists in general based on the comments of a few, is tiresome. Aside from proving your skill with the English language, and vocabulary, is it really any better than those posts your refer to? If you wish to comment on a specific post, do so, your broad comments in this and other threads are an insult to the majority of serious students of mentalism. Thanks.
...
[/quote]

Brian, I don't deride mentalists, let alone *constantly* deride them. I have, on many occasions, posted that I think mentalists have a lot to offer to performing arts and that many, especially the more accomplished, have been very helpful. And, Brian, I have tried to be careful to use words like "some", "often," etc. when describing traits I dislike, precisely because I think the majority of mentalists are not represented by the comments of a few, and have said so explicitly on more than one occasion. It is simply that Nicolas (papwemba), after a post suggesting that discussing algorithms for determining a day from a date was inappropriate, nearly apologized for raising the topic. I didn't think he needed to.

I understand that you might find my posts tiresome, but I don't really intend to change the topics I address. I do try to avoid overly broad comments, but if you can direct me to some I have made about mentalists, I will gladly (and eagerly) edit those posts. I will also re-double my future efforts to avoid over-generalizing.

If you'd like, a discussion about the parameters of "secrets" might be useful. It seems a bit pointless, though, to have a forum of "Magicians Helping Magicians" if we can't discuss topics [i]fairly[/i] openly. I mean, can you imagine what the pasteboard section would be like if we couldn't use the words "control a card?"

As far as skill with language and vocabulary, thank you (I think...), but I don't post to prove either of those traits. I just talk funny!

:nose:
Message: Posted by: Luke Kerr (Dec 9, 2002 07:08PM)
[quote]
I understand that you might find my posts tiresome, but I don't really intend to change the topics I address.
[/quote]

The problem is not this "topic" is that since a pair of week ago in all the forum that i read you always repeat in each post that "Mentalist are this and that".
It's not what you think that i could share or not(currently not,i've always find myself well with the online mentalist community) is the fatc that you repeat yourself so many times!!
Message: Posted by: John Clarkson (Dec 9, 2002 07:28PM)
On 2002-12-09 20:08, Luke Kerr wrote:
[quote]
...

The problem is not this "topic" is that since a pair of week ago in all the forum that i read you always repeat in each post that "Mentalist are this and that".
It's not what you think that i could share or not(currently not,i've always find myself well with the online mentalist community) is the fatc that you repeat yourself so many times!!
[/quote]

Thank you, Luke, and now, if you will kindly direct me to specific posts in which I say "mentalists are this or that," I will edit them to make sure it is clear that I am not referring to ALL mentalists...

I agree, though, that I have probably posted more often about this topic than I'd like to. Everytime I see "attitude," (whether it is carping about "secrets" that really aren't or magician bashing) I jump right in and post. Maybe I need to examine my "savior complex" or something... and, perhaps, it [i]would[/i] be better if I just let it fester and die on its own....

:nose:
Message: Posted by: Brash (Dec 9, 2002 07:53PM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-09 18:49, jdclarkson wrote:

Brian, I don't deride mentalists, let alone *constantly* deride them. I have, on many occasions, posted that I think mentalists have a lot to offer to performing arts and that many, especially the more accomplished, have been very helpful. And, Brian, I have tried to be careful to use words like "some", "often," etc. when describing traits I dislike, precisely because I think the majority of mentalists are not represented by the comments of a few, and have said so explicitly on more than one occasion. It is simply that Nicolas (papwemba), after a post suggesting that discussing algorithms for determining a day from a date was inappropriate, nearly apologized for raising the topic. I didn't think he needed to.
[/quote]

John,

I'm not questioning your motives for posting. I agree that criticizing Nicolas for posting helpful information on a subject which is not, in my opinion, secret is unfair. Rather he should be commended for taking the time to share such information.

It is not necessary for you to edit past posts. I merely wish to make you aware that your remarks about mentalism, sometimes intended as wit, can create a negative reaction. Mentalism has its share of straw men, but perhaps there are gentler ways to tear them down.

Best,

Brian

:)
Message: Posted by: Marduke Kurios (Dec 9, 2002 08:07PM)
Interesting to use the term 'straw men'. What do you mean by that?
Message: Posted by: John Clarkson (Dec 9, 2002 08:34PM)
On 2002-12-09 20:53, Brash wrote:
[quote]John,

I'm not questioning your motives for posting. I agree that criticizing Nicolas for posting helpful information on a subject which is not, in my opinion, secret is unfair. Rather he should be commended for taking the time to share such information. [/quote]

I agree, Brian, that the criticism tends to discourage inquiry and a spirit of comradeship and should be discouraged.

[quote]It is not necessary for your to edit past posts. I merely wish to make you aware that your remarks about mentalism, sometimes intended as wit, can create a negative reaction. Mentalism has its share of straw men, but perhaps there are gentler ways to tear them down.

Best,

Brian
:)
[/quote]

You are right, Brian, I can be pretty heavy handed. I appreciate your pointing it out. It will be good exercise for me to try another way...

Regards,

John
Message: Posted by: Brash (Dec 9, 2002 09:59PM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-09 21:07, Marduke Kurios wrote:
Interesting to use the term 'straw men'. What do you mean by that?
[/quote]

Essentially it refers to an argument which is superficial or weak, often used to distract from something else. The term "knocking down straw men" is used to refer to the process of refuting such arguments. I would suggest referring to a dictionary for the exact definition.

Back on topic, I just want to repeat the recommendation of the Be A Genius site above. It gives excellent coverage of the method for performing this type of calculation.
Message: Posted by: Ted Lesley (Dec 10, 2002 02:09AM)
Hello Friends:

There is an interesting version for this trick in the book:

"The Art Of Eddie Joseph"

check that up! :bat:
Message: Posted by: mystic1 (Dec 10, 2002 11:05AM)
Those who do not respect the necessity to keep the secrets of mentalism should not have access to them.

Apparently, this thread illustrates perfectly that this applies to more than just the curious public.
Message: Posted by: Brash (Dec 10, 2002 12:23PM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-10 12:05, mystic1 wrote:
Those who do not respect the necessity to keep the secrets of mentalism should not have access to them.

Apparently, this thread illustrates perfectly that this applies to more than just the curious public.

[/quote]

Mystic1, the formulas for determining days for dates are used everywhere including calendar software. It is not a secret, and certainly not a "secret of mentalism".

Suggesting it is is like saying that we shouldn't discuss the meanings of the lines on the palm of the hand in public.
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Dec 10, 2002 01:35PM)
I beleive that Mystic is refering to the "it's only a ***ed secret" mentality that permeates the air here in the Café. "Gee, I'm a magician too. I do the twenty one card trick and so you can tell me how to do that. I won't tell anyone".

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/ABstagecraft
Message: Posted by: Luke Kerr (Dec 10, 2002 04:44PM)
[quote]
Thank you, Luke, and now, if you will kindly direct me to specific posts in which I say "mentalists are this or that," I will edit them to make sure it is clear that I am not referring to ALL mentalists...
[/quote]

http://www.wonderworkshop.de/board/viewtopic.php?t=374&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Hear you say that mentalist spend a lot of time criticizing magician and that they are arrogant.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=16203&forum=15

Here you talk about the civility of the average mentalist.
in 2 post in the same page in one you say

" may simply be my selective attention, Dr. Morton, but if you will compare the level of incivility in the areas of the Café frequented most by mentalists with that in the other areas of the forum, you may see what I mean"
to be right after this you apologize telling that is about not all mentalist

In your last 17 post 7 is on this theme.

And all the posts are after your rejection and your posts on nailwriter(where you say at one point that you want to go away from such an incivil place)
Message: Posted by: John Clarkson (Dec 10, 2002 05:13PM)
[quote]
On 2002-12-10 17:44, Luke Kerr wrote:
[quote]
Thank you, Luke, and now, if you will kindly direct me to specific posts in which I say "mentalists are this or that," I will edit them to make sure it is clear that I am not referring to ALL mentalists...

http://www.wonderworkshop.de/board/viewtopic.php?t=374&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Hear you say that mentalist spend a lot of time criticizing magician and that they are arrogant.[/quote]
Well, not exactly. In fact, not even close! See below.
[quote]http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=16203&forum=15
Here you talk about the civility of the average mentalist.
...[/quote]
I said nothing about the "average mentalist." I am not even sure what that would mean. I talked about an average "level of incivility..."

[quote]...

And all the posts are after your rejection and your posts on nailwriter(where you say at one point that you want to go away from such an incivil place)
[/quote]

Actually, Luke, it was [i]during[/i], not after, the application process to another forum that I first became aware of what I have described as a higher average level of incivility. In fact, several members of that very forum sent me e-mails to apologize for the incivility of some of their colleagues. Lest you misinterpret that last sentence, let me say that I have also developed some pleasant (and helpful) on-line relationships with other mentalists as a result of that application process. I know it would bolster your case to assume that the rejection of my application to that forum was somehow the cause of my posts, but you'd simply be wrong to assume that.

Luke, I surmise that English is not your native language, and I will, therefore, be forgiving, preferring to believe that you have not purposely edited my posts to make them seem like I said something I never said. I will, unless you give me reason to believe otherwise, believe that you merely have failed to understand the nuances of the language rather than that you have made a deliberate attempt to deceive.

In the first post you cite (from another forum), I was talking about the attitude of one particular mentalist. He and I, by the way, subsequently worked out our differences. I wonder, though, why you failed to quote the last paragraph of the post (bolded emphasis added here):
"There is an elitism -- an arrogance, if you will -- that I wish I did not hear expressed so often by so many mentalists in the on-line forums. It often seems to be related to a desire not to be seen as magicians. I don't really understand the sometimes acerbic statements about magicians and find them generally unattractive. [b]The mentalists I have met personally are generally nice people; because of their silence, though, they seem to be under-represented in cyber-space.[/b]"

In the other two posts you cite (from this forum), here is what I actually said. I have joined the two posts you cite, simply as a matter of convenience. I have added bold face to emphasize the parts you apparently did not understand:

"One difference is that there seems to be, in my experience, a lower [b]average level[/b] of either social skills or civility amongst mentalists than magicians. I am not sure what the defensiveness is all about, and it can easily put one off. I urge you not let it get to you. [b]Many, especially the more accomplished, are actually very helpful.[/b]

"[b]It may simply be my selective attention[/b], Dr. Morton, but if you will compare the level of incivility in the areas of the Café frequented most by mentalists with that in the other areas of the forum, you may see what I mean. [b]I also noted that this does not necessarily generalize to ALL mentalists (and don't believe it does).[/b]"

So, Luke, if you read the [i]entirety[/i] of my posts, you will see that I have not only allowed for the possibility that I have misperceived ("it may be my selective attention..."), have been careful to use words that are clearly NOT designed to described ALL mentalists ("AVERAGE level..." and "does not generalize to ALL mentalists), but have even gone further: I have made it clear that I think the better mentalists are helpful and worthwhile.

Luke, if you insist on discussing this further, let's do it in private e-mail so as not to contribute to the number of posts on this topic, since, that, too, seems to disturb you. But, if we chat, I really won't have much patience with you if you misquote me, or quote me out of context.

Good luck.

:nose: