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Topic: Emerge triumphant
Message: Posted by: nairbles (May 30, 2006 01:33AM)
http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=794 wow, this has to be the best way to do the triumph routine... what do you think?
Message: Posted by: LordPH (May 30, 2006 04:07AM)
My two favourite triumph routines is

Shoot Ogawa - Great Triumph
Daniel Garcia - Nacho Momma's Triumph

Check these out!
Message: Posted by: sunnydolan (May 30, 2006 01:25PM)
Garcia's Triumph has to be one of the best I have seen. Its basically a normal faro shuffle triumph routine with a full deck color change at the end. Its also very easy to do. BTW, don't buy from penguin magic. There as bad as magic makers inc.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (May 30, 2006 02:25PM)
It's ok. I don't think it is a good actually as the classic Triumph by Vernon, but it's ok. The thing that experience has taught me to avoid is the full deck order at the end. The problem? It just does not make any sense. Granted that most magic doesn't make any sense, having a deck in full deck order without showing the deck mixed in the beginning and also having a reason WHY it righted itself is just odd and anticlimatic. The basic triumph routine itself is SO freaking strong that tacking an ending to it for no apparent reason dilutes the original effect.

For those interested here is an outline of the routine that would be much stronger:

Begin by spreading the deck and showing the cards mixed up. Note that mixed up condition saying something to the effect that that is exactly what you want in a deck....IF you are going to be playing cards! Now, Faro the deck twice to bring the deck into new deck order and proceed with your favorite Triumph. Mine would be my Zarrow Triumph on my Zarrow Shuffle DVD...of course! Here is where your patter has to give the reasons for the next things happening. Finish, by saying you will find the card in the Lazy Magicians favorite manner. Using magic I will make every card the is face up turn face down (spread the cards) except the choosen card! They see the selection and you should get a great reaction. Wait for it to subside and say, "You know..I am kind of a fussy sort of fellow. I'm going to put my cards away, but I really prefer that they be in what is called (Turn the deck face up and spread the cards) New Deck order! Finish from there.

Note that you HAVE to put the deck away and do something else at this point. You can use the same deck later, but I would suggest using it as a finale routine to whatever card work you are doing or the work arounds when you bring the deck back out later can be onerous. On the other hand if you plan to use the deck in new deck order as a running gag go for it as I think it would be exceptionally cool, just a bear to work around.

Triumph has the advantage of other routines in that it basically stays in the same order. All that happens is that the deck is cut and the cut upset. Try Triumph with your favorite Rising Card deck. It's not that hard using a Zarrow to make this work and then follow up with a Rising routine! This will fool the boys...at least the ones not reading this post as it seems that you could not be using a gaffed deck, etc. Best,
Message: Posted by: Rinse (May 30, 2006 07:26PM)
I'm working on revealing four aces (instead of one chosen card) using the triumph shuffle, basically keeping four cards on top instead of one. I keep the four cards on top during the riffle basically by glacing at how many cards are left -- this is usually pretty good, but I still occasionally miss and hit three or five cards instead..

Is there a way to riffle that can make what I'm describing more sure?
Message: Posted by: sunnydolan (May 30, 2006 07:35PM)
You could just thumb count while useing some misdirection, that's what I'd do.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (May 31, 2006 10:11AM)
I used to Riffle Stack quite a bit and I can assure you that you can stop at exactly four cards every time with practice. Eventually you will just get the feel that you need and it becomes automatic. Best,
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 31, 2006 11:10AM)
Brad, fantastic thinking. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us!!

Message: Posted by: Erdnase27 (Jun 1, 2006 01:48AM)
Lol I like the original trimph the most. the effect has to be that the deck rightens itself not that its changed color or showing a keycard all of a sudden or deck is in new order.. liek rotiz stated it in strong magic: its like the phone goes during an orgasm. It totally takes away the trong effect that triumph is supposed to be. Or like vernon states it: Most effects r weakened by improvement.

just my 2ct
Message: Posted by: Rinse (Jun 1, 2006 02:01AM)
Thanks for the tip, Brad! I'll pay more attention to the feel during practice.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Jun 1, 2006 01:41PM)
Dear Rinse:

Here is an exercise that I used when I was trying to get a riffle stack down. It will train you to nail the number of cards you want to hold back: What you do is this, cut the deck and get ready for a table riffle. Riffle and hold back 4 cards on the left side, the side you would Zarrow under normally. (You can reverse this is you wish.) Now complete the shuffle normally. Now, cut and riffle, but hold back 3 cards on the left, etc. Do this down to one and then start over. Do it about a zillion times or until your thumbs fall off. Humor aside, you will find that concentrating on the count down will actually improve overall performance and get you where you want faster than if you JUST worked on the holding back four. I had not remembered this the other day, but it really works.

Also....I agree above the TRIUMPH is perfect by itself without color changing, etc. In fact once I combined the Zarrow with it it bacame far and away my favorite magic effect with cards. The reason is simple....it is one of the few tricks that actually appears like REAL magic. The concept of half the deck righting itself instantly and almost visually is a stunner for non magicians. Also, the cleaner the routine the more effective.

Notice how little has actually taken place and how little you have tried to convince anyone that anything untoward has NOT taken place. Do your build up and spread the cards. This reductionist approach is very powerful magically. Much of the magic that magicians love is better for magicians than for 'real' folks. Why is that? Because, 'we' know what is happening even when something is confusing. Consider seriously why certain tricks are so freakily powerful for the lay audience. Consider the simple trick where you push a dime thru a piece of Dental Dam. Consider the Peter Rabbit trick and the Crazy Cube or Color Cube. For magic to really happen for the public the 'effect' itself much be instantly understood. There can be no ambivalence if you want the MOST out of what you are presenting. Confusion IS the greatest enemy of magic. Even if you have a routine that has multiple finales or end points (Ambitious Card or a longer rope routine) EACH effect that happens needs to stand by itself. Each effect in the over all stream MUST be seen by itself and preceived as an effect BY ITSELF. Otherwise it is so much visual mush that confuses the audience. And, the problem is that confusion begets further confusion. That's why the classic mistake of the tyro is to produce effect after effect so quickly that there is no pause for the audience to take in what has been produced. A good routine with three effects has then three applause points for the audience.

Pause, take a breath. Look at the audience expectantly and say, "Thank you" as you nod your head. An audience is quick. Within one or two practice sessions with them you will have them trained and giving you applause every time you ask for it. The best part is that audiences WANT to do this! They expect to do it and it is VERY disconcerting for them to not be given the chance to applaud when it is obvious to THEM that they should. Best,
Message: Posted by: JackScratch (Jun 1, 2006 02:39PM)
The Professor rules! Don't fix what ain't broke.
Message: Posted by: Midwest_Magicians (Jun 1, 2006 02:51PM)
I think it is a powerful trick but the only problem I have with it is the angle jog. Do you really have to do it? what you be a better way to preform it without the angle jog?
Message: Posted by: Kelvin W Sherlock (Jun 1, 2006 03:44PM)
For a 4-ace type triumph, an alternate approach is Terry LaGerould's "The Man From New York". It doesn't have a false shuffle, but it does give the appearance of it.
Message: Posted by: Brad Burt (Jun 1, 2006 03:46PM)
Dear Midwest:

If you are talking about the Vernon original? then you are talking about a Block Transfer false shuffle. Done correctly it will appear that you push the cards flush and then do a cut. That sequence is heavily covered by a Left Hand shade and in fact done smoothly is almost angle proof.

As I noted above you can completely eliminate the Block Transfer by using a Zarrow Shuffle. See here: http://www.nexternal.com/bburt/Product4

What's cool is that everything works that same except you eliminate a LOT of moves. You go right from the control sequence to the cut and shuffle and you need only do one shuffle with no cut following to accomplish the detangle if you will. Very, very clean and neat.

On a discussion note the original had this going for it: You can stop when the deck is shuffled and the cards pushed in half way and spread the cards to show they are indeed shuffled. This is the only advanatage to the original as a Zarrow accomplishes everything you need with less work. Done as described above it really does not look as if you 'DO' anything. The deck is shuffled face up face down and then ZAP! It is straightened out with the only card face up being the selection.