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Topic: What is new?
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Jun 9, 2006 09:14AM)
Thinking about the Pat Page post below - I wondered whether there has been anything fundamentally new in rope magic in the past few decades, or is it just recyling and re-packaging of old moves and principles?
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 9, 2006 11:14AM)
You got it, just the old 50 year old stuff in a new package by someone that has re-arranged someone elses thinking.
Message: Posted by: Dan LeFay (Jun 9, 2006 01:08PM)
I attended a lecture of Pavel recently. Seemed mighty original to me. His Walking Knot is a mainstay in my repertoire.
Of course as a 40 year old I can not comment on 50 years of rope-history.
Message: Posted by: BrucUK (Jun 11, 2006 03:02AM)
I've tried to read as much on ropework as I have time for, and it seems to me that much is just "recycling", but so what?
Magicians are always always looking for that "next new thing", instead of looking for that "next new presentation", and creating it if it is not there.
There's occasionally something new and stunning, (Pavel, or Sanders), but you can read Abbots, look at Darryl's Videos, Fulve's "Self-Working Rope Magic", Pavel, Sanders etc etc, and see a nice slow progression around the same sort of moves.
It's only when you take e.g. Whit Haydn's presentation skills that the "great magic" happens, IMHO anyway.
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 11, 2006 08:16AM)
Yes gentlemen there is nothing new in rope magic, it is all misdirection, but no one ever used misdirection quite the way Richard Sanders does. When I do "fiber optics" there really isn't any thing new except the optical illusion that occurs when you bunch the moves togther to the point where the audience looses their perspective. I did it for a group of elementry school kids last week, and much to my surprise they were cheering, and claping all through the routine to the point where it shocked me.
THANKS RICHARD
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: joseph (Jun 11, 2006 09:20AM)
Exactly, Al....Look at the flood of dvd's lately...Every performer is doing his take on an old effect, so it's not just rope magic, but all types.....
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Jun 11, 2006 09:30AM)
Hello:

I agree with Dan concerning Pavel - seems his creative mind is constantly coming up with new effects with rope. Those who doubt this can go to his website or purchase one of his demo DVDs to see that he has remarkable and new effects with rope.

I use his Krazy Knot in every show.

Ron
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 11, 2006 11:21AM)
Ron
I do "krazy knot" with the big finish every show too. The finish really catches them by surprise.
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Jun 12, 2006 04:12AM)
[quote]
On 2006-06-11 09:16, Al Angello wrote:
Yes gentlemen there is nothing new in rope magic, it is all misdirection, but no one ever used misdirection quite the way Richard Sanders does. When I do "fiber optics" there really isn't any thing new except the optical illusion that occurs when you bunch the moves togther to the point where the audience looses their perspective. I did it for a group of elementry school kids last week, and much to my surprise they were cheering, and claping all through the routine to the point where it shocked me.
THANKS RICHARD
Al Angello
[/quote]

Al - did you do Fiber Optics just as Sanders does (without the slide)?
And do you use any kind of story line or just the Sanders minimal patter?

I would really like to see someone do this in front of an audience. I did it a couple of weeks ago for a group of adults and children (5-10). The adults were impressed and amused but I don't think they were badly fooled because in the end it's obvious that you have an extra piece of rope. There was also a kind of "why are you doing this?" feel. I went at about the same speed as Sanders. I don't know whether some kind of story line would have helped - it would have made more sense but also have given the audience more time to reconstruct the moves.

The children were slightly spooked I think but strangely hostile. They accused me of "showing off". They didn't understand how, but they didn't understand why either. Whereas they love professor's nightmare if done as a story about polar bears.
Message: Posted by: BrucUK (Jun 12, 2006 06:27AM)
I hate the sliding knot, as it gives it away - I think it's so much better without it. I use patter about "what it must be like to be a piece of magi's rope, magic changing your length etc. and how you can "get back" at him/her by making your ends fall off etc.
Bruce
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Jun 12, 2006 06:32AM)
Thanks. I was thinking of a kind of "I went to the magic shop to buy some rope ... the man said 'you'll be wanting the sort that changes length'? No, I said. In that case you'll want the stuff you can cut and stick back together"? No, I said, just ordinary magical rope. 'Well, be careful of the cheap stuff, the ends switch places' etc"
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 12, 2006 06:59AM)
Rjenkins
I do "full circle" which gives the trick a strong story line. I have added 8 "fiber optics' moves to dress it up, which make it my own (I havent tried the slide yet). The kids applauded at every fiber optic move, but full circle officially is the routine I do, and I am absolutely thrilled with the response I'm getting from people of all ages.
HAVE FUN
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jun 12, 2006 03:00PM)
Talking about old rope routines:

Where can I find documentation on the rope trick Doug Henning did on the "Tonight Show?"

It's the one where he had a long rope. Johnny and Ed held each end. Doug "cut" the rope and tied the ends together. He then slid the knot to one end, and then untied the rope to show that the cut moved from one end to the other.

I pretty much know what he did, I'm just looking for some history behind it.

David
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 12, 2006 04:24PM)
Dave
That trick is called Pavel's "super walking knot" and for $240. it can be yours.
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jun 12, 2006 05:17PM)
I've seen Pavel perform his walking knot and I don't think this was it. Unless you can have someone genuinely examine and tug on the rope first.

There was a subtle "move" that Doug did, plus having the right kind of knife helped to deliver the "gimmick." He then visibly "slid" the knot from one side to the other where thanks to the "move" he was able to untie the rope as if that's where it was cut in the first place.

I can do the entire thing with an ungimmicked rope. I'm just looking for documentation.

Does any of this sound more familiar? PM me if you want more.
Message: Posted by: shomemagic (Jun 12, 2006 10:35PM)
After Henning peformed on the Tonight Show...I was looking frantically for this trick and found I beleive what was advertised as the same it was " Knot Unexpected " for sale at in the Tannens flyer. I purchased it and was really disappointed at the gimmick I recieved..now the routine was put together nicely..However the gimmick was a joke especially with rope supplied.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Jun 13, 2006 03:11PM)
Right, Mike.....See it [url=http://www.hanklee.org/xcart/product.php?productid=3274&xid=fb9aae4af16d67aec1435f141d771d4f]HERE[/url] ...
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jun 14, 2006 05:31PM)
That seems to be the one I was looking for, thanks! Not sure I'm ready to spend $42 for the knife though. I wonder if Steinmeyer ever wrote it up somewhere where I don't have to buy the knife. Scissors I can justify. Not sure I want to risk a knife (even if it's fake) on the streets, let alone in my luggage through airports.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jun 14, 2006 10:27PM)
Dave,

Airports are a hassle. But you can over-night it to your next hotel / motel.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Jun 14, 2006 11:03PM)
Hello:

I'm pretty sure it's in "Device and Illusion" by Steinmeyer.

Ron
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jun 15, 2006 11:00AM)
Dave
Now I know what trick you are talking about. The knife is an important part of this trick (hint, nudge, wink) and what you liked about it was Doug Hennings talent, because I bought it from Abbott, read the instructions, was not impressed, and threw it in my trunk.
HAVE FUN
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: John Long (Jun 19, 2006 05:03PM)
[quote]I wondered whether there has been anything fundamentally new in rope magic in the past few decades [/quote]

Maybe not new to you, but its new to me, and I'm having fun with it! (but I can agree, I tend to see a lot of the same stuff)

In regard to the Hennings performance:
[quote]It's the one where he had a long rope. Johnny and Ed held each end. Doug "cut" the rope and tied the ends together..[/quote]

It *sounds* like a pretty good effect, I'm surprised at the "blah" responses. Does it provide a reasonable way to show the initial cut of the rope?, that would seem to be the most critical part to sell this routine. I would hope that for $42 they provide a good way to do this, but you guys seem to have had a negative impression of this.


John
Message: Posted by: John Long (Jul 8, 2006 11:02AM)
The Ching Ling Foo's Royal Tape Mystery(Tarbell V5 p277) is a similar effect, and uses a folded fan to do the dirty work.

John
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 8, 2006 05:40PM)
The firt time I saw Doug Henning to this I was literally FLOORED. I was in front row of the theater and slipped out of the chair onto the floor.

This was the original version created by Paul Curry. It required two assistants to hole the ends of the rope. It was FAIRLY and REALLY cut where the spectator chose him to do the cut.

Pavel created his version, which was/is FAR EASIER to do and needs NO ASSISTANTS.

Stienmeyer created the one with the knife.

I have also a version with no special knife. Perhaps I will publish it in Genii soon. It requires little gimmicking, nothing like Pavel's, something you can do yourself in under a minute.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 9, 2006 11:05PM)
If I remember correctly, Doug Henning did the Paul Curry method on television. He also did the Jim Steinmeyer version on stage when he was here at his last performance and has his accident that put him in the hospital.

Paul Curry only sold a manuscript for the secret, noone has ever did this method to my knowledge, only Doug Henning.

The Steinmeyer version sold better and is more workable for the average magician that does not have a full crew to help with the show.