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Topic: If you had to choose...
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 12, 2006 10:39AM)
If you had to choose between Capricorn Tales and Strange Ceremonies, which would you select and WHY?
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jul 12, 2006 11:05AM)
I choose (C) both!

The styles are so different, the presenations so unqiue, it is hard to say which is "better" as opposed to both belong in every storyteller/bizarrist's library....

SC has a lot of history and theory of Bizarre Magick and thus doesn't have as many effects within its pages as CT. So, it depends on what you want... CT is all effects... both books are well illustrated, written, and a joy to read even if you never perform anything from them. My style seems to have more affinity to CT as it is a bit darker IMHO.... but SC was great for various inspirations as well as I did like the pendulum effects.... CT was really good for Psychostasis (sp!?!) - which you will find Black Hart has created a masterpiece prop for - but there are many cool gambling with the Devil effects in CT that I liked and adapted (especially the one with the Steamboat deck :) - now I have a nice story of a riverboat gambler and the Devil and nice golden coins for a soul)...

So, my argument is that if you are leaning towards theory and some illustration effects for practice - SC.... if you want a bunch of dark eerie effects - CT... but really - get both!
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Jul 12, 2006 11:06AM)
As a performance piece or reading for pleasure?

In both cases 'Strange Ceremonies' just by title.

Capricorns sound like something one puts on a salad. :)

Strange Ceremonies though has the ring of things I'm interested in as a read and in performance would be easily understood by the 'customer'.

I would feel like I had to wear ballet slippers to do Capricorn Tales. :)

I addressed this very concept in my Blog today...(no, not the slippers.)

By the way...I probably misunderstood the question.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jul 12, 2006 12:02PM)
Capricornian Salad - what a concept.... figures it comes from a fellow who creates shrunken heads :P yum!
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Jul 12, 2006 12:27PM)
Capricorns...a combination of Capers and Peppercorns...not so odd after all. :)
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Jul 12, 2006 12:53PM)
LOL...I have quickly noticed on this Café that everytime Doug Higley posts...I can actually hear his voice. Brilliant!
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Jul 12, 2006 01:20PM)
Eddie my friend that is one hell of a web site! Plus the Tramping Grounds link leads to a dynamic Feegee Mermaid presentation! But this question persists...how does an antique Vent Figure type and create websites without his fingers moving?
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 12, 2006 02:58PM)
I was interested in both and will likely get both. They have received great reviews, but not really anything detailed. Most people in the threads here say their favorite book is Capricorn Tales. But in the next breath they say Strange Ceremonies.

I just wanted some ideas of what I am buying. I love to read and these are clearly library "musts" for storytellers and bizarre Magicians.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2006-07-12 12:06, Doug Higley wrote:
Capricorns sound like something one puts on a salad.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Doug...I think that is "capers" on that salad ;)
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Jul 12, 2006 03:09PM)
Repeating for MoringStar: "Capricorns...a combination of Capers and Peppercorns...not so odd after all."
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 12, 2006 03:20PM)
Oops, Doug, sorry! I was a bit slow on the uptake, there. *blushing* ;)
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Jul 12, 2006 04:08PM)
Dear Doug,
Thanks...typing is no problem...They have strings and levers for everything these days :)
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Jul 12, 2006 04:48PM)
...and pills. In your case though...a pill could be a wooden nickle!

Thanks Eddie...you cut a snazzy Figure!
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Jul 12, 2006 05:15PM)
Morning Star,

Strange Ceremonies is a good bit older than CapTales, and it was written by Eugene Berger so, for those reasons, it may be beneficial to get it first, although Cap Tales is a must have as well.
(but did I ? nooo.... hehe.. in my defense though, I picked up Cap Tales used for about $12 - a bargain)
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 13, 2006 05:37AM)
Thanks, Mystician! And what bright eyes you have! :)
Message: Posted by: scolman (Jul 13, 2006 03:03PM)
I don't have Strange Ceremonies but I believe it focuses more on the principles of bizarre magic whilst Capricornian Tales really gives you a lot of workable, tested routines.
You might want to check out Borodin's Sheherezade as well (that's packed with excellent routines too!)

Simon
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jul 13, 2006 03:32PM)
Both are good books, and both should be in your library. But if you are just getting one, my recomendation would be to purchase the book written by the author who PERFORMS bizarre magick. Buy Christian's book!

Tony
Message: Posted by: Anabelle (Jul 13, 2006 04:54PM)
I have capricornian tales and I really like. I'm not familiar with the other one yet. Also, morning star, being native american you might want to see my ebook POW WOW in alexandre's website: http://www.eyesandminds.com/store2.htm

Anabelle
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 13, 2006 05:17PM)
Thank you Simon, Tony, and Anabelle! Your suggestions are most helpful. Simon, I have read several threads praising Borodin's Sheherezade. Might just have to get all three. These books sound like the top three for bizarre magic/storytelling routines.

And to think that some magicians rely on DVDs alone, instead of discovering the hidden treasures found in magic books.
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Jul 13, 2006 05:51PM)
I'll have to vouch for Sheherazade too, I have that too (and paid full pop for it ;) )
Borodin has a flair for the intricate, where many of his effects incorporate semi-complicated gizmos or heavily modified props; sometimes even a little bit of electrical wiring is involved, but the ends totally justifies the means.

The title effect itself is just too cool, and gave me my very first [i]decent [/i]idea for an original, alternate effect utilizing the same prop (albeit modified differently) and of course a very different premise and presentation altogether.
Just one "warning": Borodin is a bit long-winded; he puts the "air " in "Bizarre" ... :whatthe: ..umm.. yeah..
Message: Posted by: braddevant (Jul 13, 2006 05:55PM)
I have them both and wouldn't part with either.
Message: Posted by: Merlin C (Jul 13, 2006 07:39PM)
[i]Strange Ceremonies[/i] is Eugene Burger's history and thoughts on bizarre magic, containing his writeup of five bizarre effects by Jay Inglee.

[i]Capricornian Tales[/i] is about 20 bizarre and mentalism effects by Christian Chelman, with a few philosophical pieces.

Hard to choose one in the abstract without knowing what 'my' knowledge, purposes and aesthetic are.
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Jul 14, 2006 02:17AM)
"Capricornian Tales" was my first bizarre book, so it'll always hold a special place in my heart (which is currently in a jar on my desk).
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 14, 2006 04:31AM)
Sheherazade it is, Mystician. I like the complexity of Borodins ideas. Thanks for your thoughts.

Thank you, Braddevant, Merlin C, and Philemon Vanderbeck. I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.

Philemon, your heart may be in a jar on your desk, but you have something scaly on your shoulder...does it have a name?
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Jul 14, 2006 10:56AM)
Yes... "Chip."
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 14, 2006 12:29PM)
Chip on your shoulder...aaaaw!
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 17, 2006 04:23PM)
Sheherazade is a tough one to find. Anybody have one they want to sell?
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Jul 20, 2006 12:04AM)
Try Misdirections http://www.misdirections.com/mental.html

Also, I couldn't choose between the books. I have all of them of course. I love Eugene's book as that was one of my first Bizarre Books, got it after Eugene Goes Bizarre. Capricornian Tales I got shortly after that, Christian is hardcore. And Sheherezade a couple of years ago. All are brilliant in my book.
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 20, 2006 07:13AM)
Thank you, Clifford the Red. I will check the link you provided. I just received my copy of "Strange Ceremonies" and I am enjoying it greatly! Now I am on a quest to track down the remaining two books. Thanks, to all for your great suggestions!
Message: Posted by: EVILDAN (Jul 20, 2006 08:39AM)
Check ebay for Capricornian Tales. It's an EXCELLENT book and there is usually one or more up for grabs there.
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Jul 20, 2006 12:13PM)
I believe Doug Byrd has Capricornian Tales as well as other goodies. Check with him. His website is http://www.thevanishingart.com.
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 21, 2006 10:47AM)
Hey, Evildan! I will keep an eye on E-bay for Capricorn Tales.
Thank you for the link, Bill. I will check it now.

However, I am still looking for Sheherazade. If anyone sees a copy out there, pm me. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Jul 22, 2006 08:38PM)
CAPRICORNIAN TALES....

why? because Curator is my HERO , and ill eat you alive....

no other book has inspired me more in my art than his--whether or not you perform the effects word for word, it will still take you on a trip that you will never quite be able to forget...






:)
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Jul 22, 2006 09:01PM)
I could not agree more, Baba!
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Jul 24, 2006 02:32AM)
[quote]
On 2006-07-21 11:47, Autumn Morning Star wrote:
Hey, Evildan! I will keep an eye on E-bay for Capricorn Tales.
Thank you for the link, Bill. I will check it now.

However, I am still looking for Sheherazade. If anyone sees a copy out there, pm me. Thanks!
[/quote]

So Misdirections didn't have it? I'll keep my evil eye out :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Jul 24, 2006 07:57AM)
Again I suggest Doug Byrd, www.thevanishing art.com. He's a nice guy and can use your business.
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Jul 25, 2006 07:26AM)
Thank you Gede Nebo. I, too, bow to The Curator.

Thank you for your suggestion, Clifford the Red, but Misdirections did not have it. Please do keep a wicked watch, if you would ;)

I tried Doug Byrd at your suggestion, Bill Ligon, but Sheherazade is nowhere to be found. I keep finding it at various sites and ordering it, but I get messages back a few days later saying it was out of stock or backordered.

PM me if anyone sees Sheherazade or if you have a copy you will part with.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Jul 27, 2006 03:19PM)
Circle City Magic...a shop on Ebay has quite a few great magic books including the extraordinary CAPRICORNIAN TALES!
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Aug 8, 2006 08:54AM)
Thank you, Eddie Garland. I am going to Circle City Magic now.
Message: Posted by: Rick Maue (Aug 8, 2006 09:46AM)
Greetings,

Capricornian Tales is still one of my favorite magic books of all time. Had I not read it, it is quite possible that I would never have released my Book Of HauntedMagick. Simply put, add CT to your bookshelf as soon as possible.

Keep the change,
Rick Maue
Deceptions Unlimited
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 8, 2006 10:51AM)
By the way - buy Haunted magic while you are at it - a treasure trove of great effects and utility moves and ideas from the Wizard Maue...

CT is very inspirational because besides having great material - the layout and pictures make it a book for reading and enjoying beyond just its value as a repository of magical lore (but ST also has that too... but CT is European Style)
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Aug 8, 2006 05:58PM)
Thank you, Wizard Rick Maue! I will heed your words and get CT ASAP. I will also add Book Of HauntedMagick to my list as per Dr. Spektor's recommendation. Thank you gentlemen!
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Aug 9, 2006 04:38AM)
Eddie Garland, Circle City Magic had Capricornian Tales! Thanks so much.
They only have one more, for anyone that is interested. This book is getting harder and harder to find.

I am still looking for Sheherazade, so if you happen to see a copy out there, pm me. :)
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Aug 9, 2006 11:57AM)
Great news Morning Star!

Circle City Magic has sold a couple of copies of Capricornian Tales recently...almost makes me wonder if they might not be a good candidate for becoming a US distributor for Hauntiques. I want to avoid those shipping charges if I can...
Message: Posted by: Prof. Pabodie (Aug 9, 2006 03:55PM)
Now if we can just find someone who can interpret French so that we can get an English version of Compendium Sortilegionis!
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Aug 9, 2006 04:08PM)
And now that you have CT, Morning Star, you'll have to get Hauntiques when it's released. :approve:
I'd also recommend Borodin's "Sherherazade" (which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread) and his latest, "Final Curtain".
Shane's books are reportedly very good too, though I haven't read any of them myself.
Rick's "HM" is another modern classic. I love the ring binding on the book - they should all come that way !
I have so little reading time anymore, unless it's on the 'net. :hmm:
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Aug 9, 2006 08:33PM)
Shane has some great stuff. Sheherazade is hard to find, it seems. I found it at a brick and mortar store run by a Gospel magician! I didn't expect to find it there because he seems generally against bizarre magic, but the lwa were smiling on me that day! Autumn, you will enjoy CT.

(Time and money, Myst -- what we most need and can't seem to find enough!)

Naljorpa
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Aug 10, 2006 03:44PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-09 17:08, Mystician wrote:
And now that you have CT, Morning Star, you'll have to get Hauntiques when it's released. :approve:
I'd also recommend Borodin's "Sherherazade" (which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread) and his latest, "Final Curtain".
[/quote]
I FINALLY found a copy of Sheherazade today, thanks to Dr.Spektor, Professor Pabodie, and Sir T! Clifford the Red and Eddie Garland helped me find CT. Gede Nibo's wonderful threats and Rick Maue's convincing review convinced me I needed CT yesterday. ;)

I have a lot of excellent reading ahead of me. I took The Curator's, Bill Ligon's, and Mystician's advice and pre-ordred Hauntiques. I think this one is going to be like CT and Sheherazade: Gone fast and hard to find.

Thanks to all for your expert suggestions. You helped me build a solid foundation for my Bizarre Magic library: CT, Strange Ceremonies, Sheherazade and Hauntiques. I cannot wait to weave American Indian stories around these wonderful ideas! You guys are great! Thanks so much for all your help.
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Aug 10, 2006 11:49PM)
I wish I had Strange Ceremonies, and I eagerly await Hauntiques. I just hope I can afford SC when it becomes available!

Naljorpa
Message: Posted by: sweetcarl (Aug 11, 2006 05:55AM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-09 16:55, Prof. Pabodie wrote:
Now if we can just find someone who can interpret French so that we can get an English version of Compendium Sortilegionis!
[/quote]

As the Curator's 'official' translator, I couldn't agree more! I have talked with Christian about translating [i]Compendium Sortilegionis[/i] into English, but there are no firm plans yet. He admittedly likes the idea that CS is unknown to the English-speaking world - at least for the time being. Translating it would be quite an undertaking, but one I would be more than happy to carry out. Perhaps someone will start a campaign of good-natured harassment to encourage the Curator to have it translated - not that I would suggest such a thing, of course! :)
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Aug 12, 2006 01:54AM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-10 16:44, Autumn Morning Star wrote:

Thanks to all for your expert suggestions. You helped me build a solid foundation for my Bizarre Magic library: CT, Strange Ceremonies, Sheherazade and Hauntiques. I cannot wait to weave American Indian stories around these wonderful ideas! You guys are great! Thanks so much for all your help.
[/quote]

Fantastic! And having American Indian stories sounds fantastic. If you get a chance if you are ever in Southern California, Knott's Berry Farm has a brilliant magical presentation piece on the lifestyle of Northwest Indians, Bizarre Magick all the way.
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Aug 12, 2006 01:56AM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-11 06:55, sweetcarl wrote:
Perhaps someone will start a campaign of good-natured harassment to encourage the Curator to have it translated - not that I would suggest such a thing, of course! :)
[/quote]

I'll do my part and cast a curse of leaky faucets.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 12, 2006 03:33AM)
It's not only translation. Those who have the Compendium know that's also a book of art. Extremely graphic.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1362/personnelducrl4.jpg
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Aug 12, 2006 03:39AM)
Quick response, the drips must be working already :devilish:

Yes we want it graphics and all.
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Aug 12, 2006 09:41AM)
Yes, it is beautiful!
Message: Posted by: sweetcarl (Aug 13, 2006 05:05PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-12 04:33, The Curator wrote:
It's not only translation. Those who have the Compendium know that's also a book of art. Extremely graphic.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1362/personnelducrl4.jpg
[/quote]

The Curator makes an excellent point. [i]Compendium Sortilegionis[/i] is as much a work of art as it is a book of magic.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 15, 2006 10:57PM)
[i]Capricornian Tales[/i] is one of my favorites.

Congratulations on finding [i]Sheherazade[/i]. It is out of print, and will not be reissued. [i]Final Curtain[/i] has a lot of good material in it, and has some thoughts about building the stories.
Message: Posted by: Bob Clayton (Aug 16, 2006 12:39PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-15 23:57, Bill Palmer wrote:
[i]Capricornian Tales[/i] is one of my favorites.

Congratulations on finding [i]Sheherazade[/i]. It is out of print, and will not be reissued. [i]Final Curtain[/i] has a lot of good material in it, and has some thoughts about building the stories.
[/quote]

And by the way, congratulations to you Bill on post number 10,000!
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Aug 16, 2006 11:40PM)
And in case anyone wasnt' aware of it, Bill is also the one who translated Sheherazade from German to English, and did a fine job of it too.

It's the old Bizarrist classics that still elude me - Innvocation series, and Strange Ceremonies, namely.. although a lot of that is simply due to $$, not due to being impossible to find.
Still, I have more material to read than I probably ever will be able to, so I really can't complain. Last year I picked up original editions of the first 100 issues (or so) of The Jinx (minus about 20 issues actually); that's enough to keep someone busy for a bit. I got them for all of about $20 - I was surprised that no one really bid on them.
And, of course, we all have Baba's Vo Du Magick to look forward to, too ! :bwink:
(I got some sneak peeks at it lately - I think it's another must-have, and not just because Baba's a friend)
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Aug 19, 2006 03:54PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-12 02:54, Clifford the Red wrote:
Fantastic! And having American Indian stories sounds fantastic. If you get a chance if you are ever in Southern California, Knott's Berry Farm has a brilliant magical presentation piece on the lifestyle of Northwest Indians, Bizarre Magick all the way.
[/quote]
Thank you, Clifford the Red! I will be sure to check this out! I go out to LA on occasion. (When I want to actually SEE the air before I breathe it!)
Message: Posted by: Autumn Morning Star (Aug 19, 2006 03:56PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-15 23:57, Bill Palmer wrote:
[i]Capricornian Tales[/i] is one of my favorites.
Congratulations on finding [i]Sheherazade[/i]. It is out of print, and will not be reissued. [i]Final Curtain[/i] has a lot of good material in it, and has some thoughts about building the stories.
[/quote]
Thank you, Bill. I look forward to receiving this book!