(Close Window)
Topic: Cut, tie, slide it off
Message: Posted by: jondark445 (Jul 18, 2006 08:26PM)
Hi:

Maybe someone can point me in the right direction for an explanation of something I saw recently. I just started getting interested in rope magic and recently saw a magician cut a rope in two (he actually held the two pieces in two hands), tie them back together, then slide the knot completely off the rope.

Where can I find an explanation on this? I'm guessing, when it comes to rope magic, that this is something that's pretty basic.

--Jon
Message: Posted by: nucinud (Jul 19, 2006 08:50AM)
You can find it in "Now You See It, Now You Don't" by Bill Tarr.
He shows the basic cut and restore routine.
The routine you describe is a bit different. I think it might Pavel's?
Message: Posted by: John Long (Jul 19, 2006 05:52PM)
[quote]he actually held the two pieces in two hands[/quote]

How you interpret this phrase is key. I'm interpreting this as each section of rope is fully seen separately and simultaneously.

There are different versions/methods of this, and if you would like to learn these and many, many more rope effects, get the new Encyclopedia of Rope Tricks. You will find this book will be about your best value.

If you just want *a* version of this effect (where the ropes are shown completely separate), it tends to go under a name like Instano Rope. But there are many other versions of cut and restore.

I'm not sure if the version in Tarr's book is the same method. I tend to think the version in Tarr's book uses ungimmicked rope, and the pieces are not shown fully separate. But not having it in front of me, I'm not certain.

John
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 19, 2006 06:01PM)
The only rope trick that I know of that could achieve this effect is Pavel's "Junior Walking Knot." It will do everything you described, but it is not examinable, and it sells for $50. There is a drawing of this effect at Pavel's website. If you want to buy it, I would suggest you buy it from Danny Archer, who is a member of the Café and Pavel's rep. in the US.
HAVE FUN
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Jul 20, 2006 09:06AM)
The Tarbell rope trick (Can't remember the name. Hindu Rope?) does something quite similar: rope is cut, definitely cut, in the real middle. Unfortunately, it is highly un-resettable. The rope can, however, be examined at the end.
Message: Posted by: Eric Falconer (Jul 20, 2006 04:34PM)
Any version of Pavel's Walking Knot would do that, not just the "Junior."
I recommend the "Super," although it is significantly more expensive. Like $250. But worth every penny.
Message: Posted by: John Long (Jul 20, 2006 04:46PM)
[quote]The Tarbell rope trick (Can't remember the name. Hindu Rope?) does something quite similar: rope is cut, definitely cut[/quote]

Yes, there are many versions of this, including in Tarbell: Tarbell Hindu Rope Mystery (several variations) might be the one you were thinking of, in Volume 5, but there are other methods in Tarbell.

John
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jul 20, 2006 05:48PM)
Eric
The "Super Walking Knot" is 18' long, and it is done tied between two chairs. It would be both difficult and expensive to do the trick that Jondark445 has described above with such a long piece of rope.
HAVE FUN
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: John Long (Jul 24, 2006 04:47PM)
By way of clarification, Al, I assume you mean expensive to do what Jon (Jondark) mentioned via the Super Walking Knot. It should not be expensive to do by the methods I alluded to, but they may not appear the same as with the Super Walking Knot.

John
Message: Posted by: Noel D (Sep 15, 2006 08:46PM)
I think everyone misunderstood his post. He didn't cut the rope, move the knot, and then untie the knot form there. He just tied the knot and moved it OFF the rope.

This is a very basic illusion, and although I don't own them, I'm pretty sure it can be found in "Now You See It, Now You Don't" or any beginning rope book/DVD.
Message: Posted by: TrickyRicky (Sep 15, 2006 10:28PM)
My rope routine is somewhat similar to Jon's post.
A ordinary piece of rope is handed to a spectator to examine. I then slide my ring on and have him tie the ends together. He also puts masking tape on any end and signs it.
There are two ways to remove the ring, either undo the knot or cut the rope.
I then cut the rope at the center and take the ring off, which leaves me with 2 pieces held together with the signed knot in the middle of the rope.
I then slide the knot off the rope and hand him everything.
No fake knot or rope.
Richard Lyn.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Sep 16, 2006 03:51AM)
Yes, but yours doesn't have the two pieces definitely held apart in two hands.
Message: Posted by: John Long (Sep 28, 2006 05:35PM)
Richard,

You've peeked my interest with that, and I am drawing a blank on how to do that effect (w/ungimmicked rope). Is it published some place?

John
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 5, 2006 09:43AM)
This whole question is confusing to me. I know how to do it without cutting the rope, and I know how to do it when you cut the rope, but I do not know how to do it if you want an ungimmicked rope cut, tied, then slide the knot off, and have the rope inspectable before and after the trick. This is one heck of a trick, and I don't think it is possible without divine intervention.
HAVE FUN
Al Angello
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 5, 2006 12:38PM)
The original post does not say it is inspected.

If you really saw the two pieces held separately, then I would guess it is either by using Conradi Rope Gimmicks, Tarbell Gimmicks, or E.J. Moore's Instanto rope.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 5, 2006 12:39PM)
... and clever handling.

However, the original poster might, "Might" be wrong about holding two pieces apart. Sometimes one's memory doesn't fully reconstruct what REALLY happened.
Message: Posted by: sethb (Oct 5, 2006 02:17PM)
I had the same thought as Pete -- as we know, it is possible to display two "separate" pieces of rope that aren't actually what they seem to be.

I have a feeling that the effect described can be seen and explained on the Royal Magic "Amazing Magic with Rope" DVD, available in most magic stores for about $10-12. And it's a darn good trick, too! SETH
Message: Posted by: John Long (Oct 9, 2006 05:09PM)
Are we talking about the same effect?

My previous post (and I believe Al's) was in reference to Richard's ring and rope effect:
[quote]My rope routine is somewhat similar to Jon's post.
A ordinary piece of rope is handed to a spectator to examine. I then slide my ring on and have him tie the ends together. He also puts masking tape on any end and signs it.
There are two ways to remove the ring, either undo the knot or cut the rope.
I then cut the rope at the center and take the ring off, which leaves me with 2 pieces held together with the signed knot in the middle of the rope.
I then slide the knot off the rope and hand him everything.
No fake knot or rope.
Richard Lyn. [/quote]

Pete & Seth seem to be talking about the original poster's effect, and I agree with those sentiments.

I've thought of PMing Richard to see if he can expand on his effect or provide a video; it sounds intriguing. When I get some time, I would like to give some thought on how one could do a such an effect.

John
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 9, 2006 05:16PM)
Y'know, you could do a variation of the Neff Miracle Rope. One piece held between hands, cut in middle (fairly, by spectator), you throw the two pieces into the air, and they MIRACULOUSLY tie themselves together... then, you slide the knot off and toss it to the audience, and use the great line that Glenn Haywood uses (only, it is his and I won't tell... nya nya nya... :kermit:
Message: Posted by: John Long (Oct 10, 2006 05:55PM)
Pete,

After thinking about this last night, Renaissance Rope (supposedly similar to Neff's Miracle Rope) came to mind. It might take some careful handling to accomplish the signing of an end of the rope, but this sounds like a possibility.

The other thought I had was whether some ring and string moves might help here as well, but I think a method like Neff's would be required to meet the "no fake" stipulation.

I'll have to come back to this after I finish preparing for my first "parlor" show!

John
Message: Posted by: jondark445 (Oct 11, 2006 07:17PM)
Hey Folks:

I thought I'd add to this post since...well...I started it and have found EXACTLY what I was originally looking for. I'm not sure if it's mentioned here, but it's part of Mac King's lecture notes, called MAC KING'S OTHER ROPE TRICK.

Great effect, and thanks for all the suggestions. They certainly helped me look in places I wouldn't have...and I learned a few things in the process.

--Jon
Message: Posted by: SteveM (Oct 12, 2006 10:23PM)
Can someone please PM me with the answer of the following question: Where can I find the method of this effect...You take a long piece of rope (lets just say 10'), you cut the rope in the center, show the two separate pieces of rope (you do not necessarily have to let them inspect them), tie them together, and slide the knot off (or pop off). I'm sure the answer to this might be in here, but it gets really confusing because the people replying sound confused.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Oct 13, 2006 04:30AM)
SteveM,

Whit Haydn's Mongolian Pop Knot routine (see his site) or any good magic shop will have books describing the how to for this. Look under "cut and restored rope."

Peter
Message: Posted by: SteveM (Oct 13, 2006 10:21AM)
I forgot to add that in the end, it's still one rope. But thank you, I will look around.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Oct 13, 2006 11:32AM)
You might want to look at Fiber Optics, which shows you how to do some of this basic stuff and a great deal more, too.
Message: Posted by: Daegs (Oct 13, 2006 02:54PM)
Neither Fiber Optics nor Mongolian Pop Knot will allow you to show both pieces of rope right before the knot popping off.

In Mongolian, you show 3 different separate pieces of rope, tie them together with 2 knots, and then have both knots pop-off... But at no point can you simply show 2 pieces of rope in separate hands, tie them together, have the knot pop off, and restore them.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Oct 13, 2006 03:10PM)
Steve,
Welcome to the Magic Café. The "Junior Walking Knot" will work. It does everything you ask, except it is not inspectable at the end. This has been a very difficult topic to answer because people keep changing the question.
HAVE FUN
Al Angello