(Close Window)
Topic: Standard vs. Gravity Flipper
Message: Posted by: ftlum (Aug 2, 2006 12:39AM)
Hi All.

Just wondering what the benefits of a standard flipper are over the newer gravity flippers. I'm thinking of getting one in Morgan-dollar size (and maybe getting it made to fit in my U3F gaff); it'd probably be used for 3-fly- type work.

If it's an advantage in such routines to not have the flipper open by gravity, can a "gravity" flipper be adjusted so that it doesn't open as easily (eg by changing band tightness)? While this may nullify the obvious benefit of a gravity flipper, I'd still like the band to be hidden (seems to be standard with gravity flippers). Hope that makes sense.


- Frank
Message: Posted by: tbaer (Aug 2, 2006 08:38AM)
Frank, I can't think of any (I'm sure there is) advantages of the standard over the gravity. You can't make the gravity flipper open harder. The whole purpose of this coin is that it opens very easily without having to flick it like the standard coin.

But the advantages of the gravity coin over the standard are you can have the coin in the open position, laying on a table or your hand and it won't spring shut. Also, you can't see the rubberband like you can on the standard. Also, the bottom coin looks just as good as the top coin having the milled edges. Not the case on the standard.

Ahile back (I'm not sure which section) Dan Watkins made some nice comments about the gravity flipper vs the standard flipper. Maybe another Café member can find it. Since I own the gravity flipper, my standard flipper is collecting dust.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Corn (Aug 2, 2006 09:07AM)
If you modify the standard slightly, which Garrett Thomas explains on Any Questions, it does make it much easier to open and still springs back in place. Other than that and the price up front, I can't think of any advantages. I don't own a Gravity Flipper yet, but will definately be picking one up soon, after seeing Coin Man Walking.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Aug 2, 2006 05:28PM)
I have a standard and am sorry I didn't get a gravity.
Because the standard is not easy to open and snaps shut it's a royal pain to handle for me.
I guess that the one advantage may be that it could be handed out with less worry than you may have with the gravity.
Other than that I can see more versatility with the gravity one.
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Aug 2, 2006 06:05PM)
A couple of considerations:

The standard Morgan flipper is easier to open than the standard half-dollar gaff. The "insert" part is heavier.

If you're planning on getting a dollar sized gaff and adding it to U3F, you're probably thinking of performing in situations where things like U3F are optimal. In other words, standing before a relatively larger audience. No table, or poor sightlines to the table top. Table hopping, but one step back from the table so everyone can see. If that's the case, then I doubt the groove on the edge will be a problem. If you're already using a U3F gaff, you know how much people don't notice about the edges. Also, the ability to set the gaff down is of less use to you.

Since I do a Fingertip Coins Across as part of a larger routine, I don't want the gaff flopping open at the wrong time. I want it to slam shut and stay that way throughout the rest of the routine. Since I have a few techniques for opening the flipper easily, there's no reason to want the "flopper".

All that said, I understand that the tension on a flopper can be adjusted. Not sure how much.
Message: Posted by: tbaer (Aug 2, 2006 08:54PM)
Just a note: Even though the gravity flipper opens easily, If it is in the open position in your hand and you throw it up into the air, it will snap shut. When you catch the coin from the air, it will be one shut coin.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Corn (Aug 3, 2006 09:06AM)
Garrett Thomas' Any Questions video teaches a way to get around the opening problems. Mine now opens just by running my finger across the gaff. I'd recommend looking into it if you're using the standard Flipper. It also snaps shut just as easily and holds tight.
Message: Posted by: Douglas.M (Aug 6, 2006 11:53PM)
Hi Frank,

In Troy Hooser's Total Destruction #1 DVD there is a detailed section on working with a standard flipper (opening, closing, displays, etc). I have an old Johnsons Products flipper half, but I recently obtained a Walking Liberty L*s**n Gravity Flipper.

Troy's Coins to Glass can be done with a gravity flipper, and you can do a coin roll with the gravity half and it will not flop open. However, I found some key 3-fly moves impossible to do with my smaller half dollars (Morgans are on my wish list).

The unmentionable gaffer still produces a standard flipper for those who do not need a looser flappy-thing.

Since I don't own a dollar-sized flipper of any type (and I don't perform 3-Fly), I can only attest to the effectiveness of the half-dollar sized gaff for ease of opening, and it's ability to lay in an open position for close-up applications.

There is a trade-off of course: any time you hold the sweet spot on the Gravity Flipper, it will flop open (via Mr. Gravity); so you have to be careful.

I would heed the advice of the esteemed Curtis Kam regarding dollar-sized coins and 3-fly routines (now I know what I will get...Thank you Curtis!).

Happy flipping!

Douglas M.
Message: Posted by: Seeker (Aug 7, 2006 03:31PM)
Can someone take this moment to answer me what a flipper helps you achieve? (A flip I am assumming...but you never know)
Message: Posted by: tbaer (Aug 7, 2006 07:09PM)
Seeker, the coin doesn't flip over in the sense you are thinking of. Elsewhere in another section, there are some posts on the flipper coin, where if you read all them, you can probably figure out how the coin works. I'm not exactly sure where that section is. Maybe another Café member can remember and show you.
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Aug 7, 2006 07:25PM)
Seeker, Bob Swadling created the concept of the flipper coin, and a fair number of applications for it. Thus the "Flipper Coin" is actually the "Swadling Coin," the invention of England's clever Robert Swadling.

For instance, 2 half dollars coins are freely shown and placed in the left hand. Commenting that the weight of the two coins is too heavy, the magician gives his left hand a rest by placing them in his right hand. But alas, his right hand gets tired as well, so to solve his problem he lessens the burden of his right hand by instantly causing one of the coins to magically travel to his left hand... a fifty-fifty split.
Message: Posted by: ftlum (Aug 7, 2006 10:05PM)
Thanks everyone, for your replies.

Here's my follow-up question: if you were to make a flipper to go with a ultimate 3 fly gaff (heads showing), which side would you make your flipper face? One thought I had is to make the non-gaffed side of the flipper "tails". That way, if you put the flipper in the U3F gaff, you could easily flash both sides of the coin(s). You could also toss the "coin" around freely since the insert-side of the flipper is trapped against the 3-fly gaff. (I suppose for 3-fly work, though, that degree of scrutiny is not necessary.) Alternatively, it is more asethetically pleasing to me to have both coins show the same (heads) side.

Any thoughts?

-- Frank
Message: Posted by: Eric Jones (Aug 8, 2006 07:07PM)
I own a couple different flipper coins. I own a standard walking liberty flipper, made by Johnson. And I own one of the "newer" silver walking liberty flipper coins with the internal band and remilling on the insert. I immediately noticed the difference in the two coins when I compared the two and each has it's strengths and weakenesses.

The problem that I have with the standard is that the difficulty some flipper coins are with the "flick" needed to open the coin with a new band on it. The coin is a lot tighter and sometimes, more difficult to handle. The cut on the insert is a lot more noticeable in the Johnson, and makes some leery to hand the coin out for examination.

The same thing I love about the "newer" flipper coins is the same thing I dispise. The insert is too easy to open. It makes some moves a lot easier, but your handling must be much more precise when dealing with them, because if you hold it the wrong way, the flipper coin turns into a little silver puppet.

Sound is also something I've compared in the two that I own. The Johnson Flipper contains more silver and is more solid, so it sounds more like a real coin when it clinks against another coin. When one of these "newer" coins clinks against a new coin, you can easily discern that the coin doesn't ring true. I think this is because of the internal workings of the coin. Its a lot more hollow.

All and all, I use both gimmicked coins and would suggest both. It all would depend on your budget and how you're going to use the coin.
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Aug 13, 2006 02:06PM)
I can't find Schoolcraft coins website anywhere! His Kennedy Flipper as well as Walking Liberty Flipper coins are all SOLD OUT at Bob Kohler's website. I thought Jamie Schoolcraft has a very cool site that used to advertise here at the Café?
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Aug 13, 2006 02:20PM)
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Aug 13, 2006 06:22PM)
Thanks, Jaz! It's bookmarked now.
Message: Posted by: sullivanl (Aug 15, 2006 11:28PM)
The gravity flipper is great! Try to 'shell' out a little extra and and get it in Morgan Dollar size... it will pay off in the long run.

From what I have seen, the Lassen model G-flipper, or "flopper" (as Curtis Kam calls it!!) looks slightly more elegant, and is cheaper. Take a look at his site for more info and a comparison of the two.
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (May 11, 2007 03:27PM)
What about Roy Kueppers coins, is it real gravity flipper coins?
Message: Posted by: jimmyj (May 11, 2007 05:41PM)
Hello All
Go with the Gravity Flipper. Curtis is right, for his routines, and brings up some valid points. I've got about five Flippers.
Johnson Clad Kennedy Half-It's in the drawer-never use it.

Tango Eisenhower- Just use it, with an E Shell, for 3 coin production, 3 coin vanish. No 3 fly- It's a pain and I don't like flicking it open. Looks stupid.

Kueppers Twoonie Flipper- It's not a gravity flipper. None of his are. Standard. Band tension is right. Flips open nicely and snaps shut. Still, the old annoying and completely unconvincing flick-of-the wrist is needed.

Schoolcraft Walking Liberty- A thing of beauty. No flick of the wrist needed. Snaps shut. Milled insert edge. Band is internal. Lays flat in the hand. Perfect.

My opinion. Spend the cash. Buy a Gravity. You'll never regret it.

Message: Posted by: CircleCityMagic (May 17, 2007 01:09PM)
I've had several gravity flippers. You will never go back once you have taken the plunge.