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Topic: Ramsay's Bean Trick
Message: Posted by: Ty Argo (Dec 18, 2002 09:11PM)
Does anybody know where you can learn how to do Ramsay's bean trick without screwing up your eye? This is where you take a popcorn kernel or other small thing and snort it up thru your nose and it comes out your lower eyelid. Thanks
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Dec 18, 2002 10:19PM)
The John Ramsay bean trick can be found in the little booklet titled “Four Little Beans – A comedy trick”. This long out of print booklet can be found regularly through the various used magic book dealers.

Nothing, I repeat nothing, goes near your eye (or into your ear for that matter). Even though you appear to put a bean (corn kernel, or foil ball) into your eye and into your ear. This is a trick of subtly and has only one “move”. This is really a slight of mouth trick! The trick is perfectly safe.

It has been published by a number of magicians giving their own slightly different twists. The easiest version to find is in Jon Termaine’s book “The Amazing Book of Magic and Card Tricks” published and sold by Barnes and Noble books. Yes, this is a youth market oriented book. Still it is full of killer magic, not really beginner’s stuff.
Message: Posted by: tim_mantis (Dec 19, 2002 07:08PM)
I have not read Ramsay's booklet, but does it explain how to actually produce the beans from underneath your eyelid?

Jon Tremaine's routine is purely a magic trick, without the gruesome twist!

I do the trick with black-eye beans, and sometimes tiny smooth glass balls as a more hygenic alternative. I think popcorn kernels might have some sharp points on them.

Tim
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Dec 19, 2002 08:07PM)
Tim,
The Ramsey trick and the Tremaine trick are the same trick. It’s a trick! A magic trick! It is not a geek stunt even if it looks like one and can actually be played as one. I don’t know what trick/stunt you do. Describe it.
Message: Posted by: Dark illusionist (Dec 21, 2002 01:15AM)
Hey, Harry, ol' buddy ol' pal. Is this the "trick" that Angel used on his TV special?
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Dec 21, 2002 07:19AM)
Hey DI old friend, sorry I couldn’t tell you, I did not see the Chris Angel special. I don’t get the opportunity to watch much TV. I doubt if I have seen a magic special in three or four years. Sometimes a friend will tape the show and I get to see it a week or so later. No one I know taped Chris’ show.

OK, sorry, back on topic, IF what Chris did was spill four (or five) small objects (beans, gems, buttons, tinfoil balls, etc., etc.) into his hand, then one-at-a-time moisten the object with his mouth, followed immediately by pushing the object into his ears and eyes, only to have them reappear one-at-a-time from his mouth, then that’s the trick. If he did something else, it probably isn’t the trick.

So what did he do?
Message: Posted by: Dark illusionist (Dec 21, 2002 09:17AM)
Ahh ok. "Harry ol' buddy ol' pal" is from the movie Dumb and Dumber and just watching the teaser for the prequel I couldn't resist.

He stuffed a corn kernel up his nose and took it out his eye after a little acting. The special was nothing compared to his show in Times Square so you didn't realy miss anything.

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Dec 22, 2002 10:58AM)
It sure doesn’t sound like the Ramsey trick. It sounds more like a modification of the old cigarette up the nose and out the eye trick (which, I guess could be done using the move in the Ramsey version). So maybe it is one-fourth the Ramsey Bean trick!

A prequel to “Dumb and Dumber”? Now that’s dumb! (OK, I confess I loved the film and will actually pay money to watch the prequel).
Message: Posted by: Dark illusionist (Dec 22, 2002 11:14AM)
Yeah, the problem is Jim Carey and Jeff Daniels are not in it

[outdated link]

Anyways, back on topic. Angel actually pulled his lower eye lid down and you could see the corn kernel in his eye. I'm thinking he just placed it there before the trick; however, I'm not going to give this a try until someone confirms that this is safe to do.

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: tim_mantis (Dec 22, 2002 01:45PM)
The trick I do is the one described by Jonathan, in which the bean is produced from under the eyelid rather than from the mouth.

I wouldn't say that it is 100% safe to perform this, as with most sideshow style stunts and tricks, but the risk can be minimized if done carefully.

Tim
Message: Posted by: Bill Fienning (Dec 23, 2002 03:42PM)
Docc Hilford has a comedy/bizarre version of the 4 bean trick (into both ears, nose, mouth, out the mouth) in The New Invocation. It's called "The Wrath of Renfield." I don't have the issue number, but could find it if someone is interested. The idea is by Paul Britt.
Message: Posted by: Missing_Link (Dec 24, 2002 03:57AM)
I think Jean Huggard has a version in one of his annuals (can't remember which). But in this case he used lead shot. You don't need me to tell you what a bad idea that is!

I use popcorn kernels and have been ok - but you do need to be careful with your eyes.

ML
Message: Posted by: Ellen Kotzin (Jan 2, 2003 04:59PM)
Is this the BEAN trick that Harry Anderson did on Johnny Carson, but he put it in his ear?

Ellen
harryandersonfan.com
Message: Posted by: tiptophat (Jan 4, 2003 02:42AM)
An interesting sidebar to this conversation if you want to put things in your mouth, ears and nose, etc. look in Bascom Jones' Magick for an effect called "The Story of Renfield," by Paul Britt. This is the story of Dracula's manservant who ate flies.....great story and Bizarre magick.
Message: Posted by: Hayze (Jan 4, 2003 11:50PM)
I believe I saw this very effect in "Magic for Dummies."
Message: Posted by: rkrahlmann (Jan 6, 2003 02:13PM)
Swami/Manta has a Needle in the Eye routine that can be adapted to beans, popcorn kernals, or other soft edged objects.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jan 7, 2003 08:51AM)
The Ramsey “Bean Trick” is strictly a slight of hand bit. The effect in the “Swami-Mantra” actually calls for putting objects in the eyelid or tear duct. There is a risk of tissue damage using the methodology from the Swami-Mantra. Frankly, I don’t believe that the effect is that great or worth scratching the eyeball for.
Message: Posted by: rkrahlmann (Jan 7, 2003 12:48PM)
Harry,
I don't think it goes in the tear duct. The photos make it look like that, which is one of the drawbacks to the book. As has been pointed out in other forums, none of the stunts in Swami/Mantra should be performed based only on the instructions. Sideshow type stunts like this should only be learned from personal instruction.

The needle, or whatever, goes under the eyelid. Slim Price on his sideshow forum also thought the photos showed the object going into the tear duct, but later realized that would be nuts.

I agree with you, that putting something under the eyelid may not be worth the risk. But I seem to recall Teller producing a bean from his eye (the bean was marked with a forced card), and he pushed it out from under his lower lid, and it looked pretty cool. I also admit it could have been a slight, and yes, your final point is insightful, no pun intended (well, maybe a little). We only have two eyes, and that's not because one is a spare. In 99% of cases, it's best not to mess with them, even a little. There are tons of tricks to do without risking damage to your orbs.
Message: Posted by: Bill Fienning (Jan 7, 2003 04:19PM)
The so-called needle that goes into the eye is really a short rod, rounded on both ends. I have seen it done with a rod about 3/16 inch long. It is extremely important that anything that you put into your eye be very smooth and very clean. My personal preference it not to mess with my eyes.

The Bean Trick (or Fly Trick, if you do the bizarre version) involves putting something in your mouth, but not into another body cavity. The rest is sleight of hand.
Message: Posted by: debaser (Jan 12, 2003 09:30PM)
The Ramsay bean trick is the one performed by Harry Anderson on Carson years ago

The effect Bigt is talking about is just what he thinks it is, and it's not completely safe, but then again, it's not like eating fire or anything, either

I would look around at different organic objects that might be less irritating to the eye than popcorn kernels. If you went to a healthfood store you might even find something that has positive effects on the tissue (who knows)

Matt
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Jan 19, 2003 06:36AM)
Jon Tremaine's trick using balled up pieces of foil, can be found on his double video Close up routines.

The proper pins in the eyes were sold by Dr. Prakash from India; I met him while he was training at PMH in Swindon. He taught me the routine and gave me the props (These consisted of three small siver bars) Which could be concealed into the tear duct, with manipulation a series of vanishes and productions from various orifices on your face could be done. I have performed this on TV close to the cameras. It looks great. Or one to one, but as an effect for standard performance it just isn't visible enough.

If anyone out there knows the whereabouts of Prakash, please let me know, I would like to contact him again (I believe he returned to Madras after his training in the UK).
Message: Posted by: Slim Price (Jan 19, 2003 11:56AM)
[quote]
On 2003-01-07 13:48, rkrahlmann wrote:
Harry,
I don't think it goes in the tear duct. The photos make it look like that, which is one of the drawbacks to the book. As has been pointed out in other forums, none of the stunts in Swami/Mantra should be performed based only on the instructions. Sideshow type stunts like this should only be learned from personal instruction.

The needle, or whatever, goes under the eyelid. Slim Price on his sideshow forum also thought the photos showed the object going into the tear duct, but later realized that would be nuts.

I agree with you, that putting something under the eyelid may not be worth the risk. But I seem to recall Teller producing a bean from his eye (the bean was marked with a forced card), and he pushed it out from under his lower lid, and it looked pretty cool. I also admit it could have been a slight, and yes, your final point is insightful, no pun intended (well, maybe a little). We only have two eyes, and that's not because one is a spare. In 99% of cases, it's best not to mess with them, even a little. There are tons of tricks to do without risking damage to your orbs.

[/quote]
In Swami/Mantra, there are two versions, one fake, one real.(actually in the tear duct)In fact, there is a passage from the nasal cavity to the orbit of the eye, but I wonder if it is big enough to pass a kernel of corn. I know there are some who can blow smoke through it.In my "three score and ten" I have seen enough to never deny possibilities,but to be sceptical.
"The older I get, the better I was!" <G>
Slim/sanscan
Message: Posted by: rkrahlmann (Jan 19, 2003 03:46PM)
Kondini/Slim
I'm looking at the Swami/Mantra book, and while the photo is making it appear to go into the duct, doesn't it really go under the lower lid? Kondini, did you really put the little bars in your duct? PM me if you don't want to mention it here in the forum.
Am I completely wrong on this, or are there a couple of ways to do this? 3 including the fake.
By the way, Slim (and others who read the post), I have to apologize for the misquote. You didn't mention this on your sideshow site. It was in a discussion in this forum called "Eye to eye" on 12/6/02. I misinterpreted your response to Pleez, who suggests the bars go under the eyelid, not duct. Please accept my apologies. Your insight in this area is great, and should be reported accurately.
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Jan 27, 2003 12:26PM)
Yes the tear duct is used and I found the whole routine to be far easier than the Blockhead to learn. Prakash sold the workings with photo shots up close mini photo`s 1"x2" which he cut from sheets he had printed, the pins go into the duct at around the same angle as the nail in the Blockhead, there is no restriction felt and the only problem found was that sometimes the pin made a premature ejection (That sound rude, maybe I should have said, It can pop out)

In the right hands as a close up this is a killer, but watch out --the pins have a habit of vanishing, mainly on the floor.Anyone interested in this stunt (UK) I will be at the Blackpool Con next month.
Message: Posted by: rkrahlmann (Jan 27, 2003 07:34PM)
Kondini,
Maybe this is something for secret sessions or a PM, but how is the pin extracted? And is there any danger of it going behind the eye? With the blockhead, there isn't a whole lot of danger the nail is going to get stuck, unless you really work at it.
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Jan 28, 2003 01:05PM)
As stated the pin tends to want to pop out more than stay in (I can only put this down to the moisture ever present in the duct plus the smoothness of the pins )On occassion I have had to hold the head tilted slightly back in order to keep the pin in ,also with the manipulation of the fingers not only giving the impression of working the pin out of the eye,also helps to hold the pin in the duct until required, if the duct should dry at all then a couple of blinks with the head held forward and out it comes, in many hundreds of performances the pin has never stuck. No the pin cannot travel any further inward (See any medical book as for why) Also upon constant performance of the blockhead by that I meen around 16 baly come-ons, I have had the odd bleed, mainly through over penetration,,,you can not afford to get complacent with any of these stunts.
God what we do in the name of entertainment.
Message: Posted by: rkrahlmann (Jan 29, 2003 12:20PM)
The only time I've bled during the blockhead is when the air is dry, and thus my nostrils. The tender skin couldn't take the friction. The audience seemed to enjoy it, however...
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Jan 30, 2003 03:13PM)
Yeah, some folks like the gore, then they complain to the booker on the way out.
Message: Posted by: ScottSullivan (Apr 26, 2003 11:37PM)
I first heard about objects from the eyes in a National Enquirer story when I was a kid. They said a child in India was know to "cry pebbles" but was later exposed as a fake when someone caught him putting small stones in his eyes to be extracted later. I thought they'd made it up. A few years later one of my contact lenses folded up and slipped down beneath my lower lid. It took me a long time to get it out but I discovered that it physically couldn't slip behind my eye and into my skull or anything really bad and I remembered the boy who cried rocks.

I tried it with a bean and freaked out my friends so I added that as the kicker finish to my 4-bean routine (I learned that from an old copy of "Scarne's Magic Tricks"). When I do it (and boy is it NOT for every audience) I just pick a nice smooth bean and wash it down with saline solution before insertion.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Apr 27, 2003 12:23AM)
The Tears of Buddha, as it is sometimes called, can be performed effectively from the stage. (I worked out this choreography for a young man with whom I was working at the time.)

Get two spectators on stage and sit them on either side of you. Hand one a flashlight, and the other a crystal glass.

Ask one to describe to the audience EVERYTHING he sees. That, coupled with their reactions, will have the effect playing quite nicely. In the end, when the final production is made, let it fall into the crystal glass with an audible ring.

A similar blocking allows one to perform the $100 bill switch on stage as well.
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (Jun 1, 2003 11:04PM)
There are those that perform a version of Ramsey's bean trick (later adapted by Paul Britt using plastic flies and performed by Docc Hilford as the Wrath of Renfield)with popcorn kernels. The kicker at the end is to remove the last kernel from your eye ala The Needle from the Eye that is in Swami/Mantra. I think this is what some posters are writing about.
Message: Posted by: trainerjep (Jun 11, 2003 04:30AM)
I have seen doc do his routine with the flys, and it is very good, funny, and the audience always seems to enjoy it. And I finally found the little flys...
Message: Posted by: tim_mantis (Aug 5, 2004 04:09PM)
[quote]
On 2003-06-02 00:04, Todd Robbins wrote:
There are those that perform a version of Ramsey's bean trick (later adapted by Paul Britt using plastic flies and performed by Docc Hilford as the Wrath of Renfield)with popcorn kernels. The kicker at the end is to remove the last kernel from your eye ala The Needle from the Eye that is in Swami/Mantra. I think this is what some posters are writing about.
[/quote]

The 'bean from the eye' (usually as a finale to the Tremain/Ramsay effect described) and the 'eye-to-eye' effect with smal bars/needles are two different effects. In the former the bean/kernel is produced from the lower eyelid, usually having been vanished into another orifice. In the latter, the bar is produced from the tear-duct, usually after having inserted another into the other eye, creating the illusion of one bar travelling from 'eye to eye'. Be careful not to mix up the two effects - I would not recommend trying to fit anything wider than these bars into your tear-ducts! In fact, I wouldn't recommend putting anything into your tear ducts!

Tim
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Aug 6, 2004 12:21AM)
The Ramsay bean trick can be found on one of the Tom Mullica Impromptu Magic Made easy Videos. I am not sure, right off hand, which Volume, but it is there. It is one of my all time favorite "gross-'em-out" effects, and I do it every chance I get! :devilish:
Message: Posted by: MAGISHAUN (May 5, 2006 01:34AM)
I wonder what was goin on in the persons mind to even think of coming up with an effect like that. Glass,bean,popcorn,nails,rods, I even saw someone do a toothpick vanish that ended up coming out his eye. Its definately an attention getter and not for the queezy but I think the chick who makes her eyes pop out is more impressing than that. but that's my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Caveat Lector (May 5, 2006 11:02AM)
I would have say thank you to the person who invented this stunt as it has made me a lot of money. I have been fortunate to be able to perform this on many national TV shows with great success. It is however not something that you just want to try, you should have someone who does it frequently show you exactly how to do it. I have learned a lot about this stunt and found some new ways of handling it to make it more convincing.
Message: Posted by: Freak Prodigy (May 5, 2006 01:09PM)
DO NOT PUT SOMETHING INTO YOUR TEAR DUCT!!!!

YOU WILL REALLY F*** YOURSELF UP!

the little bars or "needles" go into your lower eyelid...not your tear duct.

Thanks,
Brett.
Message: Posted by: jeremysweiss (May 6, 2006 07:05PM)
You guys are gross. But, this happens to be one of the areas of expertise covered by Vascular and Interventional Radiology. I hope this works for you (photos and all!)

http://www.jvir.org/cgi/content/full/13/1/83?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&titleabstract=lacrimal&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

Journal of Vascular and Interventional Radiology 13:83-88 (2002)
© 2002 The Society of Cardiovascular & Interventional Radiology
Message: Posted by: Slim Price (May 6, 2006 07:48PM)
Hi Jeremy, glad you popped in. Some years ago I talked to an eye surgeon about this. (Eye to eye.) Aside from the equipment being to small to see from a stage, The risk is to great to waste on a bar show.. If you do the real thing, get lots of money, being blind is not a real sideshow act..
Slim
Message: Posted by: jeremysweiss (May 6, 2006 08:16PM)
I totally agree with Mr. Price. Why risk it with the real thing (with equipment too small to be seen) when you could do the effect just as well with slight of hand and some glow-in-the-dark or day-glow beans? Storing small, smooth, sterile items in the lid, on the other hand, can be done with less risk (but still with some risk). I make my living off of my eyes (and my fingers' very fine motor skills)--so I don't even use contacts, nor will I have LASIK done (although my wife did).
Message: Posted by: Slim Price (May 7, 2006 09:42AM)
Hah, both my corneas are plastic...I got a lot of chances to talk about eyes... <G>
Message: Posted by: jeremysweiss (May 7, 2006 04:44PM)
Oh, and I was (finally) able to do a little research.

The Indian Pea (aka bean) Mystery is on Tom Mullica's DVD Vol. 2
It is published with Tic Tacs, on Tomas Medina's Geek Magic
It is in Marvin Gardner's Encyclopedia of Impromptu Magic in two places. Under "Beans" it references John's Ramsay's trick and pamphlet (discussed above) and then it also reviews the technique more throroughly under the section on "buttons", item number 4.

I cannot find it in the New Invocation or in the Compleat Invocation Vol. 1 & 2 listed as the Wrath of Renfield or under Docc Hilford (although I do remember seeing some presentation that utilized Renfield in those tomes, I am just not sure it was the bean trick).

Wayne Houchen has his variation, performed by Mr. Angel. Which utilizes thread. Mr. Houchen communicated to me that this will be released to the magic community sometime next year when his contract with Criss runs out.
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (May 15, 2006 11:44PM)
I have used the "Needle from eye to eye" from the Swami Mantra for about 8 years now with no ill effects.

The bars must be proper and your hands clean. Keep this sanitary and I really don't see how any harm could come from it, but please, don't take it from me.

Regards,
-J