(Close Window)
Topic: Would this work on streets?
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Aug 19, 2006 02:48PM)
OK I am working on a new act, about 15 minutes of a rope routine, based on Tabary's DVD then another 8 minutes using Whit Haydn's 4 ring routine. People I have showed it to LOVED it so I am going to be doing a lot of nursing home and Senior centers with it.

Now, could this be used on the street? Just rope and rings? Thanks.

Peter
Message: Posted by: 61magic (Aug 19, 2006 05:16PM)
It could work on the street. The only thing I would worry about is parts of the Tabary routine have the knotted part of the rope hidden behind your shoulder, with the angles in street peforming this may be a problem.
I would want to cut the rope routine to 5 minutes, and add some additional material to cover the time. Variety will help keep people from thinking "is this all this guy does", and walk away.
For the senior centers etc... they will love both routines.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Aug 22, 2006 01:03AM)
I've been testing out the prof. nightmare at the ballpark where I work and it's great for the little amount of work I've put into a presentation. I would be careful not to make things too complicated so you do not start losing people.

Fiber Optics is also a great item to check out.
Message: Posted by: John Sturk (Aug 22, 2006 01:13AM)
I can say from my experience that Fiber Optics is great on the street. If you're doing the Sliding Ends, you may want to watch the wind, though...

I love Fiber Optics because it packs in the pocket and plays ANYWHERE...street, stage, restaurant, kids' party...ANYWHERE!
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Aug 22, 2006 07:08AM)
15 minutes of rope is a very, very, bad idea.

Best,

Dan-
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Aug 22, 2006 08:22PM)
That was my thinking also Mr. Hustle,a few minutes should be fine, but do not overdo it.

johnny
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (Aug 23, 2006 12:30PM)
Definately stick to no more than a couple o minutes Paddy.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Aug 24, 2006 11:32AM)
Danny,
Couldn't you, with some comic bits and good rope "one liners" stretch the routine out so that you could make it play longer than 5 minutes. I tend to agree with you that 15 minutes of straight "rope magic" wouldn't play. At the same time though, look how long Gazzo makes the cup and balls last. I imagine it could be done, but it would have to be very engaging, entertaining and funny.

If one put some serious work into it... maybe? Then again, my meds could be wearing off...:)
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Aug 24, 2006 11:44AM)
Check out Cellini's routine in his new lecture DVD. It's got a lot of great moments.

By the way, I got a copy of the DVD and it's produced very well. The sound and picture quality are exceptional. Usually a lecture video sounds like crap, looks like crap, etc. but this is not the case.

His rings routine was sloppy compared to the Kozmo version, which is too bad, and nothing had an explaination but for the rope routine, an explaination should not be necessary.

If you've never seen Cellini lecture, this DVD is for you.

A lot of it overlaps with "the art of street performing #1 and #2" which go into much more detail but I'm still glad I picked it up.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Aug 24, 2006 12:48PM)
I saw this original post when it first came out and thought it wasn't the best laid plan for work on the street, although for a more "captive" audience, it could possibly work. I agree with the general concensus here... 15 minutes with rope on the street is too long. However, it may be helpful to examine why.

Of course Gazzo gets the stretch from his C&B routine, but that is his closer. He already has the audience locked down at that point. The audience has become a single-minded entity by then, and not a bunch of individuals wandering in and out of the framework. Eric Evans, in "The Secret Art of Magic", explains this phenomenon of audiences. After a certain point, the audience is a closed audience... nobody in, nobody out. They are beyond deciding whether or not they should hang around... they are there.

I don't see any rope routine worthy of being a closer (although someone may come along and prove me wrong). Using the rope itself as a symbolic example of a rope routine, although you may find interesting things along the length, the end is very much like the beginning... not exactly suited for a big finish. It can however, be a nice transistional piece, but still should not exceed more than a few minutes.

During the time leading up to the closer, I think it is better to have shorter routines that give the audience a sense that you will give them the satisfaction of a climax. It should be understood that most people these days are spoon fed the majority of their entertainment in small quick doses. Media marketers who understand this, accommodate the audience. It is too easy for the viewer/spectator to change the channel/walk away.

You have to remember the guy who is asking, "What's your point?"

Once they know that you are going to bring something to a conclusion, they may trust you just enough to invest more time in what you are doing.

The dynamics of a street show audience is that many, if not all of the people are making an impromptu decision to become an audience. Most other shows find that not to be the case, and we as magicians can assume too much based on the average show performed. Different considerations should be made for the very different environment of street performing.

Sometimes it's not about how funny or good you are... sometimes it's about convincing the audience that this is going somewhere and that they aren't losing a chunk of their day on a shaggy dog story.

~michael
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Aug 24, 2006 02:26PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-24 12:32, Kaliix wrote:
Danny,
Couldn't you, with some comic bits and good rope "one liners" stretch the routine out so that you could make it play longer than 5 minutes.
[/quote]

Absolutely not. Nope. No way.

But if you are a consummate, highly skilled, flat out monster, of an entertainer, you could paint a house for six hours and make watching the paint dry entertaining.

It can be done but it is not for mere mortals. Unless your name is Bob Sheets, Bill Malone, Steve Kradolpher, or somebody of that caliber it just ain't going to happen. Particularly on the street.

[quote]I tend to agree with you that 15 minutes of straight "rope magic" wouldn't play. At the same time though, look how long Gazzo makes the cup and balls last. I imagine it could be done, but it would have to be very engaging, entertaining and funny.
[/quote]

See above.

Keep in mind that the routine you are talking about took 20 years to develop. 15 years ago that same cup and ball routine lasted under 10 minutes.

[quote]
If one put some serious work into it... maybe? Then again, my meds could be wearing off...:)
[/quote]

Serious work means devoting many, many, years to get it to that level. Instead of investing that kind of work into something as banal as rope why not pick something that has inherent entertainment, is unique, and you can build into a fifteen minute routine and still have the ability to make a living with it when it is only a five minute routine?

I absolutely understand where you are coming from and you logic is accurate. This is something I have had to come to terms with in my own show and what I learned the hard way was, just because you can do something does not mean you should.

In order to make something like that work you must first be an entertainer of the highest order. Most people starting on the street do not have the advantage of having been an entertainer of that caliber first. Billy McComb told a great story on his professional touch CD about working with Christopher Plumber on a movie. He had to teach him a magic trick involving a floating ball. The set up was simple, a loop around the neck. Two hours later after learning the basics from Mr. McComb Mr. Plumber returned with a routine that "would take the light from your eyes". Billy's reasoning was the man had been a consummate entertainer for over 30 years at that point. the tricks we do are the simplest part of what we do. It is the personality and character that we bring to the table along with timing, stagecraft, and a sense of theater, that is the hard part.

So, if the original poster were some kind of performing freak he could do whatever he wanted for as long as he wanted. But, if he were that kind of monster he wouldn't have had to ask the question. It sounds like he is probably a mere mortal, just like me. :) That was why I answered him in the way I did.

Best,

Dan-
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Aug 24, 2006 03:41PM)
Yes, Dan, I am just a mere mortal and have nowhere near the street experience of you, Kosmo, Gazzo, or any like that. That is why I asked the question? I use it in my nursing home shows, and even in my kids shows, but thaey are different audiences that a street would be.

Michael, Ishould have realized about the audience having to become a single minded group and you are right, no way is a guy with a piece of rope going to galvanize an audience like Gazzo with the cups & balls.
Thanks, I did learn a lot from this.

peter
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Aug 24, 2006 05:33PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-24 16:41, Paddy wrote:

Michael, Ishould have realized about the audience having to become a single minded group and you are right, no way is a guy with a piece of rope going to galvanize an audience like Gazzo with the cups & balls.


[/quote]

Peter,

There is no shame in not having realized that. Some things cannot easily be figured out at the outset, but can usually only be learned either from personal experience, or hearing it from someone with it.

In the meantime, I suggest you do two things... test the routine as you have envisioned... not once, but several times to get a better "average" reading. Then, similarly test an act more in keeping with the advice given here. From there you can probably make a better real-life assessment.

~michael
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Aug 24, 2006 06:33PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-24 16:41, Paddy wrote:
Yes, Dan, I am just a mere mortal and have nowhere near the street experience of you, Kosmo, Gazzo, or any like that.
[/quote]

Paddy, remember I'm a mere mortal too. :) I was giving you the info I wish I had gotten when I tried doing a 10 minute rope routine on the street (because I did, and it was very, very, painful :) ) I just want to make sure that you didn't think I was coming across snarky. :)

Best,

Dan-
Message: Posted by: bropaul (Aug 25, 2006 11:29PM)
Snarky... Very cool word...

I'm a rope guy... I love working on rope routines. I spent a couple of years plus on a Tabary style routine. It's a solid six minutes and on the street, it's 2 minutes too long. It's a shame. I love that routine. I've got a quicktime movie of it, standing on a chair, in a bar, in Saint Paul up on the website.

I use it every once and a while for my own entertainment pleasure. My audience puts up with me, because it has some very visual parts and they can see I'm having a ball... But when it gets down to G.T.F.M, I stick with my little rope routine, standing on top of a 5 gallon bucket, and it makes the dough.

But Paddy, use your stuff in a real setting. Notice when they start to talk, walk, look around for their out and then you will know exactly how long it needs to be. That is the best thing about street shows, they let you know if they like it, what they like and what they don't. Worst case is that you tell them thanks and wait 5 minutes for the place to clear and then gather another pitch and try it again. Make some changes and try it again, and again, and again. You can hone that routine in a couple of days.

Rope on the streets... I love it.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Aug 26, 2006 01:13AM)
Bro. Paul has a few things going for him.
He does a great act.
he has a great rope routine.
And he sells great garlic seasoning which I use to this day.
And his wife is as nice as pie.

... I found about all of these things on the same day
at the Ren Faire in Sacramento.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Aug 26, 2006 06:05AM)
NO, Danny, you did not in any way come across as "snarky." (I like that word too.) But you did rightly point out that what you, Gazzo, Bro Paul and Kosmo can do is different than what I as a relative newbie can do.

You guys have the entertaining part down pat while I am still working on making my shows both magical and entertaining

Peter
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 26, 2006 10:24AM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-26 00:29, bropaul wrote:
Snarky... Very cool word...

I'm a rope guy... I love working on rope routines. I spent a couple of years plus on a Tabary style routine. It's a solid six minutes and on the street, it's 2 minutes too long. It's a shame. I love that routine. I've got a quicktime movie of it, standing on a chair, in a bar, in Saint Paul up on the website.
[/quote]

I wish I was snarky!

I want a link! I want to see your rope routine! The best part of the short time I've been on the street here in Providence was my rope routine. Two girls came up as I was finishing the first part and said; "Aw, you're doing magic? We missed it!" I replied; "No problem! We'll do something better!" and finished the routine with them! (They're the ones who gave me the two whole dollars I made while I was out there!)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 26, 2006 08:46PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-22 08:08, Danny Hustle wrote:
15 minutes of rope is a very, very, bad idea.

Best,

Dan-
[/quote]

I am not sure I could agree more. Maybe I would add one more very, but that is all I could find wrong with the statement.

If your goal is to keep the crowd, variety is your best friend. I hope your goal is to keep the crowd.

As was said, there are exceptions to every rule. Some people are good enough entertainers to read the phone book and keep a crowd. Most of us however are not.
Message: Posted by: bropaul (Aug 26, 2006 11:15PM)
Mandrake01:

The link for the Tabary style rope routine is at the front page of my web site: http://www.BrotherPaulMagic.com. It is not the "Street Rope Routine" that I sell. BUT it is the labor of love of rope. Fun routine. Great for stage shows at renaissance festivals, but for a circle show, it's just that much too long.

If interested, the street rope routine is at the store link on the site. Nothing breakthrough, but is a my money maker.

I love all rope stuff and check it all out. Everything from George Sands to Fiber Optics. It's all good and has its own place in the right hands... Once again, read it all.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Aug 27, 2006 10:50AM)
Bro Paul,
Just finished watching that rope routine of yours. Very nice, I like it. My favorite part was the ending, you don't see that part coming and it's a nice climax, as you end right where you started, coming around full circle.
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Aug 28, 2006 08:19AM)
Bro. Paul's routine is one of the finest there is for the street. The reason it is so great is it is completely scalable, has a nice flow to it, plenty of opportunity to involve the audience, and you can use the same rope all day long.

I keep it in my bag and pull it out on slow days when it takes a while to build an edge or when I am doing smaller shows. I have even done bits of it with the thick rope that I use to mark my edge. You just need to have a 5" "gimmick" in your pouch to get into the routine. I think it looks great with the big rope and if you keep it short and sweet you can add a climax like rope escape through wrists w/a bandanna, or rope through neck.

I got a ton of really, really, good stuff from Bro. Paul's CD package available on the website. Buy the whole shooten' match there is gold in thar!

Best,

Dan-