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Topic: Is it ok to perform a trick apon a gravestone ?
Message: Posted by: mOzerian (Aug 20, 2006 10:29PM)
Hello wonderfull magi...

The season finale of SLEIGHT is now online. They say you should never stand on someones grave, But do you think it is ok to perform a trick apon a grave stone...?

check out this incredible 3 phase coincedance kicker...

http://www.lumacast.com/phpBB2/sleight.php

or you can download individual episodes here:

http://www.podfeed.net/podcast/Lumacast+Sleight/7164

cheerio.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 20, 2006 10:34PM)
If its your stone, absolutely. :)

If you feel you need to ask the question,
then you already have an answer.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Gotama (Aug 20, 2006 11:02PM)
"They say/" Who is they. I bet you find a bunch of people that say this is okay. Then you will have a different "They." As Tony said, "If you feel you need to ask the question, then you already have an answer."
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Aug 21, 2006 12:30AM)
IVE DONE A BOOKTEST USING A WAX PENCIL AND DIRT TO REVEAL THE WORD ON AN OL' GRAVESTONE..........IT WAS (SUPPOSEDLY) AN OL' ANCESTOR OF MINE, AND WE USED ONE OF 'THEIR' OL' BOOKS...HAHAHAHAHAHAMUHAHAAAA....

I DID CLEAN THE STONE AFTERWARDS BY THE WAY....
Message: Posted by: mOzerian (Aug 21, 2006 01:31AM)
Perhaps you guys take my Question far to literally....as far as I'm concerned there is no etiquette to be concerned with, when dealing with the non living.
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Aug 21, 2006 01:50AM)
KIND MAGE, HOW ARE WE S'PPOSED TO KNOW SUCH A THING? THE QUESTION WAS POSED QUITE LITERALLY, AND SINCE WE ARE SEEING THE WORDS AND NOT HEARING YOUR GIGGLE, OR OTHERWISE SATIRICAL TONE, WE ARE BOUND TO TAKE IT LITERAL..

(YOU SPELLED "UPON" WRONG BY THE WAY) :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Aug 21, 2006 07:48AM)
Well, I guess performing on a grave stone is better than digging up the bones.

Nal
Message: Posted by: kaytracy (Aug 21, 2006 09:07AM)
Etiquette is actually an issue here, regardless of your personal beliefs. It is there for those who remain, not those whose remains you work over.
My thought being that the cultural interpretation as to whose grave will have to come into play.
In some cultures, once the person has passed to the next plane, their body is nothing more than a source of tools for the living. In some cultures, there is great reverence placed upon the remians (at least until there is a freeway or houseing tract that wants the land).
In some cultures, there are protocols for removal of the remains, or at least a portion (skulls) while the balance of the bones are removed to make space.
Generally, once the dead have gone that far, they are not the ones worried about such things, it is the living who have the need for whatever process is found through "our" customs around the dead.
I would say that, local cultural sensitivity should be kept in mind, and nothing disrespectful or damaging to the graves or stones be done. Clean up your mess, like Baba. Think of it like the Rede- "An it harm none, do what thou wilt."
k
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 21, 2006 09:35AM)
One wonders even why this came up. I doubt very much that the residents of the cemetery hired you to perform. My mind is troubled because I keep seeing you in a cemetery performing for a camera.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Aug 21, 2006 10:17AM)
Penn and Teller have a gravestone where you can perform a magic trick and you have their permission. The location is given on one of the BULL@@@@ shows.
Message: Posted by: coupcoupdaddy (Aug 21, 2006 01:01PM)
P&T Season 2...Death, Inc.?

We were recently tempted to film a Father of All Book Tests Revelation on James Joyce's grave and even had an empathetic relative of an adjacent grave's occupant for a guide however it just didn't seem ___________.

H D X!

--Lydia 16
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Aug 21, 2006 01:05PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-21 08:48, Bill Ligon wrote:
Well, I guess performing on a grave stone is better than digging up the bones.

Nal
[/quote]

ah, that's quite debatable kind brethren :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Aug 21, 2006 05:31PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-21 14:05, Gede Nibo wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-08-21 08:48, Bill Ligon wrote:
Well, I guess performing on a grave stone is better than digging up the bones.

Nal
[/quote]

ah, that's quite debatable kind brethren :)
[/quote]

Baba, I didn't mean it wouldn't be USEFUL to dig them up, just that it might not be socially acceptable (in MOST circles -- in Mystician's group it is probably a weekly get-together).

Nal
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 21, 2006 05:37PM)
I would think that the dead would enjoy a little entertainment.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 21, 2006 09:16PM)
Jerry Garcia did.

OOOPS! Wrong "dead."

BTW, before anyone gets his/her nose out of joint, Jerry was a friend of mine.
Message: Posted by: mOzerian (Aug 21, 2006 09:30PM)
Tony,

Correct you are. Some Cemetery's in Australia like the one in the clip, are used like parks where you can hang out read a book enjoy the sun play with your kids. This is one of those.

The Cemetery is very old in Australian terms, the majority of people buried were actually from a shipwreck in Bottany Bay. As you can see there are many marvelous gravestones and incredible looking trees.
Message: Posted by: coupcoupdaddy (Aug 22, 2006 06:56AM)
Please disregard the rogue Lydia 16's above post. She does not represent the sentiments of the Isso & Company and has been bundled off to the Doktor for realignment with his footloose ninjas.

H D X!

--The Mechanic
Message: Posted by: Leland Stone (Aug 22, 2006 09:43AM)
If I recall correctly, The Penn & Teller stone is located here in Cali, and it's got a 3C engraved on it. BTW -- it's not a headstone, but a "cenotaph," or "memorial stone placed without a body."

As much as I enjoy cemeteries (quite apart from the bizarre connection, they are fascinating for their sociological, architectural, and historical value), I line up with Kay on this question. Although I'd very much like to present a seance in one of the stunning local mausolea, it isn't something I could bring myself to do. Such a presentation would be stuff and nonsense -- nothing more. But the remains of those entombed there are very real, and were once living, loving people whose deaths may still be grieved by those they left behind. In such a place my silly tricks are inappropriate.

Leland
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Aug 22, 2006 10:40AM)
Aside from any joking, I agree, Leland. One might be dealing with some very real and very deep emotions of people related to the deceased. It would be terrible to inflict such emotional pain on anyone.

Bill
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Aug 22, 2006 12:50PM)
[quote]
Baba, I didn't mean it wouldn't be USEFUL to dig them up, just that it might not be socially acceptable (in MOST circles -- in Mystician's group it is probably a weekly get-together).
Nal
[/quote]

Well, it is [i]my[/i] backyard, afterall.. and even I pay property taxes .. :evilgrin:
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Aug 22, 2006 02:10PM)
LMFAO!! :)
Message: Posted by: chmara (Aug 22, 2006 02:30PM)
I would suggest you get the current occupant's permission in writing.
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Aug 22, 2006 03:22PM)
Morals and bizarre be like oil and water--cant mix :)













ok ok, to all the Moral superheroes, I just kidding....
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Aug 22, 2006 09:08PM)
What if we don't dig them up, but they come up anyways? On their own?
Message: Posted by: coupcoupdaddy (Aug 22, 2006 09:21PM)
Hooray!

H D X!

--Lydia17
Message: Posted by: Chris H (Aug 23, 2006 06:43AM)
Seems kind of redundant to ask the question after the performance, yeah?

-- Topher
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 23, 2006 06:47AM)
Topher

It is a way to get attention for the latest video withour saying, "look what I found on the web, what do you think of this?"

Tony
Message: Posted by: Rev.moonchild (Aug 23, 2006 07:26PM)
I rather play with dead things than watch that video . Just because Steve put if Graveside magic is your thing in the title of this forum dose not mean to do it magic on there grave . Have some class
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Aug 23, 2006 08:48PM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-22 15:10, Gede Nibo wrote:
LMFAO!! :)
[/quote]

lol .. I just noticed the "F" in there, Baba, and wondering what it could mean.
So.. many.. ..possiblities !!! :bwink:
Here's my favorite choices:

Laughing My * Arse Off:
* Firby
* Flatulent
* Fabulous
* Flamboyent
* Flacid
* Flagitious .. (look that one up !)
* Fibrous
* Felonious
* Familiar's .. (not your own !)
* Feline .. (see above )
* Facetious
* Fatuous .. (look that one up too)
* Faultless
* Fastidious
* Frivilous
* Flirtatious
* Flammable .. (see flatulent above !)
* Flaxen .. (yeaaaaahh riiight..)
* Fleabitten
* Fluorescent
* Flouncy
* Fluffy
* Foppish
* Fomented ..or even fermented
* Formaldehyde-preserved
* Forlorn
* Fossilized / Fossiliferous
* Foul-smelling
* Fraudulent
* Freakish
* Frankenstein
* Freeze-dried
* Freeloading
* Freemason
* Frenetic
* Frightening
* Frittered
* Frizzled
* Frolicking
* Frostbitten
* Frothy
* Frutescent ... (look that one up, lol)
* Fudge-packed .. ewwwww....
* Fuliginous
* Fumigating
* Fundamentalist
* Funer[i]e[/i]al .. (I didn't know that word existed until tonight !)
* Fungal
* Fungoid
* Funky !
* Furry
* Furious

..but most probably,

* Famous !! :approve:

So, what DID you mean ? :bwink:

Okay, that took waaaay too much of my time to do !
Yer worth it though, bud.
Message: Posted by: Chris H (Aug 23, 2006 09:28PM)
Hi Tony,

Completely understand that. But I think we would all agree that mOzerian should take a bit more pride in his work. Whether you agree with the topic or not, the production of 'Sleight' is miles ahead of most of the half-baked, webcam gear you see most magicians publishing online.

Well done moz. Aussie represent!!

-- Topher
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 23, 2006 10:19PM)
Not having seen them, I'll take your word for that.

Tony
Message: Posted by: mOzerian (Aug 23, 2006 11:25PM)
Tony Tony,

You mean all this commenting, and you have not seen the episode yet....what are you waiting for...

Infact no one as yet has actually commented on the show itself, apart from Topher, cheers topher that cash should arrive in your account tomorrow.....jaja

did anyone notice the dog doing a poop in the back ground...haha.

What about some other details which become oh so important, like the girl licking her lips whilst trying to comprehend what just occured.....
Message: Posted by: karvis (Aug 23, 2006 11:33PM)
Last motnh, an spanish mentalist, Anthony Blake, has an special on tv, and performed some effect in a cemetery....

everything with respect, but... if your are watching Tv and see a magician performing a trick, using your father tomb as a table.... mmmmm... iam not sure ...
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 23, 2006 11:53PM)
MOzerian

I've not commented on your videos because not having seen them, I cannot. Truthfully, I have not interest in seeing them. My interest is in making what I do better and more meaningful to my audience and me. Watching someone perform in his own made-for-evideo program does not aid in my goals. Yes, it might be an interesting or amusing diversion, but I'd rather not. I'd rather take my influences from poetry, mythology, music, movies, and life. There are so many areas to learn from, that watching a child perform card tricks in a grave yard does not even enter the equation.

But thank you for asking.

Best wishes on your next installment.

Tony
Message: Posted by: mOzerian (Aug 28, 2006 12:47AM)
I suppose some of us fall into the trap of seeking inspiration for all eternity. It's action that counts in the end.
Message: Posted by: Wolflock (Aug 28, 2006 02:47AM)
I would sugget not doing it. Chris Angel just had a few pics on his web site with him lying in shorts over Houdini's grave. Caused a BIG outrage amongst us Escape Artists. I personally just found it disrespectful, but hey, that's life. Why not just make a Cemetary with props? You can make it look beter than any cemetary that you can find and NO ONE would care, including the dead. :o)

Regards
Wolflock
Message: Posted by: mOzerian (Aug 29, 2006 12:45AM)
No offense wolflock, but if you can make a fake cemetary with props to look as good as a real one....then you must indead be the undead.

and you have obviously not seen the video yet.
Message: Posted by: Traveler (Aug 29, 2006 01:30PM)
MOzerian,
I watched "sleight" and I must say.. congratulations, mate... Great job on ALL the episodes.
Look forward to the next season !
Tony... some episodes are really nice to watch... It's not just a kid doing card tricks... The book test and the dangerous monte are my favourites !
But I agree, poetry, etc.. are great sources of inspiration !
Message: Posted by: juggling1 (Nov 20, 2006 01:51AM)
All I know is that I performed a bounce juggling routine off of some graves once for a vid and Ive never felt self concious about it. Most people don't respect the living and then there the ones that want to judge weather or not other people respect the dead. Then again I grow up around a funeral home my fathers a mortition so were always joking "inappropriately"
Message: Posted by: SeaDawg (Nov 20, 2006 10:02AM)
There are certain lines we are all willing to cross or not. And we define those limits for ourselves and must live witht the ramifications, but we have no right to inflict our values on others. If we choose to gather an audience and bring them willing to a place, and execute our effects, that is one thing... but infringing upon sacred sites of others to do so, isn't on in my books.

And I know that I am going to sound like my Dad, but just because others do it don't make it right. To exploit the pain, anguish and sacred sites of another for our gain, is really an area I choose not to tread upon. I am sure I can find plenty of eerie places to "ply" my bizarre trade without having to sensationalize my work by trying to add to the effects in this way.
Message: Posted by: gsidhe (Nov 20, 2006 03:41PM)
Personally...If I have a gravestone, I would welcome magic done on it. But that is just me, not the general public.

In fact...Bring people to do a card trick for me when I've passed.
Force the 9 of Diamonds.
Then have them look at the back of the headstone (Or in the lid of the urn...Whichever I wind up with).
It'll be fun.
And I'll appreciate the company.
Gwyd
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 20, 2006 11:44PM)
While the appropriateness of performing a trick upon a gravestone is debatable, what with all the factors that bear consideration -- orientation of said stone, size, shape, the people surrounding it, etc., I think I can safely say that it would never be appropriate to TURN a trick on a gravestone.
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Nov 20, 2006 11:46PM)
I GOT IT--just STEAL a gravestone--do it in your own yard, minus the dead body underneath-PROBLEM SOLVED, CONSCIENCE CLEARED.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Nov 21, 2006 01:59AM)
Maybe you should ask Bawon Samedi's permission...
Message: Posted by: SeaDawg (Nov 21, 2006 06:55AM)
Gwyd, "the curse of Scotland?" how appropriate. LOL
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Nov 21, 2006 12:12PM)
Now, if you did it on YOUR OWN gravestone, THAT would be magick! :exclaim:

Bill
Message: Posted by: kaytracy (Nov 21, 2006 12:53PM)
OR, find a stone cutter who is re-cycling error stones for practice, have him do one for you, with the details you want, and obtain it for far less money than you might otherwise pay!
k
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Nov 21, 2006 06:53PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-21 00:44, Bill Palmer wrote:
I think I can safely say that it would never be appropriate to TURN a trick on a gravestone.
[/quote]

huh. . . well. . . I never. . . now that's an intriguing idea. . . ;)

Mark
Message: Posted by: Leland Stone (Nov 25, 2006 04:00PM)
Okay, I know this is incredibly tangential to the discussion, but submitted FWIW:

Many years ago I did some work for a client in SoCal, whose home's entry facade was veneered with hundreds of well-fitted and tightly-grouted granite blocks. The client was exceptionally proud of this stone work, which I duly admired and commented upon. I did not, however, inform her that the blocks were the size and shape of headstones, cut in slices like bread loaves. Evidently the memorial makers make mistakes, and sell their cast-offs to contractors -- though, as far as I know, they were new and unused :)

Leland
Message: Posted by: Gede Nibo (Nov 25, 2006 04:44PM)
The question doth remain: IS IT OK TO PERFORM A TRICK ON A LELANDSTONE??




MUHAHAHAHAHAH----GOD AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO COMES UP WITH THIS STUFF???



:) :) :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Nov 25, 2006 05:56PM)
Aw, c'mon, Baba! That was a terrible, awful, horrible pun. But I love it!

ROTFLMAO!

Nal
Message: Posted by: mrsblack (Nov 25, 2006 08:03PM)
Hello, I'm new here. I can see it's going to be a wonderful place if the fist topic I see is a question about performing in a graveyard.

...and I thought I was the only one with a lot of gravesite experience!
Mrs Black
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Nov 25, 2006 08:33PM)
Perhaps there could be a statue of limitations as to when it's considered sacrilegious to play on other peoples headstones or graves - If the deceased has been gone for 90 years, it seems highly unlikely that anyone is still actively mourning. I would not be pleased to see a stranger doing something with my dad's recently erected site, for example (although I'd much rather find a magician and some spectators than a bunch of kids partying !), but a hundred years from now, I won't be around myself to worry about it, and I don't know if anyone would.

Still, there's the matter of respect: I think as long as the site is an old one, and that you are respectful, that is, don't trample or steal any flowers, don't relieve yourself in the cemetary,(hey you never know), don't get rowdy and loud and rude, but rather conduct yourself solemnly as one would expect a bizarrist to do, then there shouldn't be a big hullabaloo over it.
Still, there are some who will always be offended by everything, and chase out a would-be bizarrist with a pichfork in one hand, a torch in the other, screaming "Satanist begone !" or some such thing.
Of course, if, as part of the routine, you were "conjuring" up demons or the Devil at said descendent's grandfather's headstone, then I think he or she might be justified in running a pitchfork up yer chute, especially if the family was deeply religious.
It's a tough call. Somehow, for example, Eugene Burger just comes across as a very benign kind of guy no matter what he does, but not all of us could get away with it like he probably would.

Here's a thought: why not see if you can get the family's permission first ? You never know. They might like the publicity.
Message: Posted by: Leland Stone (Nov 26, 2006 01:32PM)
<<<<<<----havin'a weird flashback...

Very funny, Baba...almost as good as the ANCIENT line from gradeschool: "How come your parents didn't name you FLINT?" Or later, in HIGH school: "Heeeeey, Stone...duuuuudddde, are you STOOOONNNNED?"

Just because the name's Stone, don't take me for granite...

:lol:

Leland
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Nov 26, 2006 03:27PM)
Hiya, Mrsblack!
Message: Posted by: mrsblack (Nov 26, 2006 10:13PM)
Hiya, Mr. Ligon!
As the Tebetian say, "khris".
Mrs Black
Message: Posted by: JAlenS (Dec 3, 2006 12:23PM)
If you live in an area where there are many old cemeteries and the 'inhabitant's' relatives are probably buried somwhere else any way I would do (may have done) it.
Presenting a bizarre effect should look real and what a better place to add some realism to.
All of the newer or large cemeteries around here have locked gates and close at sunset. I wonder why!!
There are lots of them out in the country though...
I'd say it's a personal choice. As long as the grave site isn't damaged and there's nothing illegal going on I think it's OK.
Message: Posted by: highmagic (Dec 8, 2006 04:06PM)
Ah, great ideas. This would not be a problem for me, but I know people that wouldn't be caught dead doing this
Message: Posted by: Bill Ligon (Dec 8, 2006 05:31PM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-03 13:23, JAlenS wrote:
All of the newer or large cemeteries around here have locked gates and close at sunset. I wonder why!!
[/quote]

That's because people are just dying to get in.
Message: Posted by: SeaDawg (Dec 8, 2006 06:04PM)
Bill, all the undead that walk the earth are going to congregate at your house and make sure you do not get any sleep if you tell that joke ever ever again. got it...LOL
Message: Posted by: Mystician (Dec 9, 2006 12:28AM)
Besides that, it's just plain incorrect.
It should be obvious, even to mortals, what's going on.

The Undead are planning a takeover, and it might seem that the only way to protect yourselves is to lock up the cemetaries at night. Pffttt, like [i]that [/i]will do any good ! It's only a silly "feel good" measure, of course, probably mandated by some politican who wants to claim on his record that he "did" something.. a useless act, since there will likely be no chance for reelections anyway.

It's fascinating how World War III will be so much different from the first two world wars.
The outcome won't be determined by how many died on the losing side, the winning side will be determined by how many are [i]already [/i]dead... of course, they(the Undead) will win, because their numbers will only grow while yours will only shrink.

[i]Sucks to be you mortals[/i] !
Message: Posted by: amazing_gordo (Dec 11, 2006 11:58PM)
I don't like the idea. Doing a trick in a cemetary? On somebody's gravestone?? I wouldn't want anybody messing around with any of my family, and I think the whole idea is disrespectful!! There's a difference between real and fake, and using a real person's final resting place as a stage for your fake tricks, is a very real act of disrespect! Whatever happened to the words: "Rest In Peace"?

If you need a gravestone for a trick, then try a Halloween supply shop. Get a big plastic or styrofoam one. The audience knows we are entertainers, so why would anybody want to use a real gravestone? Are we skipping the entertainment now, and trying to pass ourselves off as having actual magic powers?

I say stay out of the graveyards! You'll get there soon enough one of these days!! And when you do, hopefully, no misguided magi will desecrate YOUR final resting place by doing their lame act on it!!

JMO