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Topic: Ringing Cups...how vague is that?
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Aug 22, 2006 11:49PM)
Had an Idea tonite...3 cups that when they are stricken with the wand one at a time produce 3 different notes, man with two wands acting as drumsticks one could have quite the unique kinda routine...reminds me of the heavy metal days...

What are your cups made of???

ringa ding dong!

johnny
Message: Posted by: swtrocks (Aug 23, 2006 12:10AM)
That kind of reminds me of Michael Ammar's routine where he strikes the first two cups on the side then the third on the top, producing a different sound.
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Aug 23, 2006 12:19AM)
From what I've found, the tops sound the same...the secret is getting all 3 cups to sound diffrent when hit on the sides.

johnny
Message: Posted by: swtrocks (Aug 23, 2006 12:24AM)
Really?

I have the Stainless PF cups and they sound different when hit on the shoulders than on the rim of the saddle.

I am hitting them with a brass wand.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 23, 2006 10:15AM)
To understand why cups have different pitches, you need to understand acoustics.

Without going into a first year course in physics, I'll 'splain some of this.

If the modulus of elasticity of two objects of the same dimensions and mass is the same, the pitch will be the same. If the mass is different, the one with the greater mass will have a lower pitch. If the modulus of elasticity is different, the one that has the most elasticity will vibrate at the lower pitch.

To make a cup weigh less, file a little metal off the rim of the cup. To increase its elasticity, file a little off the inside of the cup from the top to the bottom.

Before any of you jump in on this, make sure you have actually tuned an instrument that uses a vibrating block of metal, not just a guitar or something like that.

I have, at various points in my life, tuned pianos, organs, drums, banjos, banjo heads, accordions and harmonicas.

Because it requires great skill and experience to tune an object like a cup, I would strongly recommend against "trying this at home."

I will not be responsible for any damage you do to any of your cups when trying this. You can really mess them up badly if you don't know what you are doing.

In other words, you are better trying to work with them as is than trying to modify them.
Message: Posted by: Turk (Aug 23, 2006 12:30PM)
Bill,

Could you get a different sound on a single cup if each end of the wand that struck the cup was made of a different material? Such as, if one tip was aluminum and one was brass? Or if the body of one wand was wood and the body of another wand was a solid metal?

In other words, is the sound that a cup makes totally (only) dependent upon the cup itself and not on the object that comes in contact with it?

Mike
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 23, 2006 12:31PM)
The only difference would be in the attack of the note, not in the note, itself. The note depends on the cup.

However, if you could find a nodal point on the cup, you could hold it at that point and tap it, then the pitch would be different.
Message: Posted by: Ronnie Ramin (Aug 23, 2006 04:12PM)
I seem to remember Johnny Brown tapping out a little tune on his cups...

Ronnie
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Aug 23, 2006 04:33PM)
I can play the opening 2 bars of "3 Blind Mice" on my Phoenix Cups!
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Aug 23, 2006 04:49PM)
I guess I'm lucky. I'm all set for Michael Ammar's gag "They're all exactly the same(klink, klink, klunk)... especially this one(klunk)"

My Gary Animal "Love" cups have one that's about a half note lower than the other two.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Aug 23, 2006 06:14PM)
Well gang, I hate to tell you, but the gag originated with the late Bob Read, and in his hands, and with his line, it is a jewel. He showed it to me in London and gave me the ok to use it (but I have not).
Message: Posted by: Ronnie Ramin (Aug 24, 2006 09:28AM)
Guess I'm lucky. I'm all set for Michael Ammar's gag "They're all exactly the same(klink, klink, klunk)... especially this one(klunk)"

My Gary Animal "Love" cups have one that's about a half note lower than the other two.



You just hit the sides on the first two cups and the top on the third.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Aug 24, 2006 09:33AM)
Or you could use bells.
And the clappers fell out (the balls)

or have I tipped too much with this?
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Aug 24, 2006 10:46AM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-24 10:28, Ronnie Ramin wrote:
You just hit the sides on the first two cups and the top on the third.
[/quote]

I know, but that's the cool part about these. I don't have to. One of them is naturally "out of tune."
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Aug 24, 2006 09:01PM)
So is one of mine Dave!

johnny
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 24, 2006 09:11PM)
That's not uncommon on cups. Take all three of your cups and weigh them. The one with the lowest pitch will probably be the heaviest cup.

If all three weigh exactly the same, then the one that has the softest metal will be the lowest pitch cup.
Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Aug 25, 2006 12:55AM)
So, at least I learned a cool gag to use from Dave VanVraken ala the Mike Ammar or whatever commment...cool beans!

I would still like three cups with different pitches (sp?) I could really jam out some beats my brothers & sisters and that would be radical man!

Anyways,even though I have only two notes w/my penguin cups...I still have the tops of the cups and other objects if need be to create different sounds, at least this is cool enough to warrant some interest in this topic.

johnny
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Aug 25, 2006 10:52AM)
Put different items inside the cups and see if the sounds change.
Message: Posted by: Ronnie Ramin (Aug 25, 2006 10:59AM)
I'd have to check tonight, But I think some of the Gags in Michael Ammars routine came from Bob Read's Penultimate Cups and Balls routine.
Message: Posted by: Tom Bartlett (Aug 26, 2006 11:47PM)
I never heard of Ammars not giving credit to the proper source for any thing he uses.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 27, 2006 12:16AM)
I had to read that one twice. Michael is very good about crediting people. You are right. I don't know of anything else Mike does that is in his Cups and Balls routine that came from Bob Read's routine.

I don't think Bob used the pitch gag in the Penultimate cups and balls routine, because of the cups he used in it.

Regarding changing the pitch by putting things in them, that might work. It would change the internal air chamber of the cups.
Message: Posted by: Euangelion (Aug 27, 2006 04:52PM)
Tune the cups right and you might market yourself to NBC.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 27, 2006 05:26PM)
Ringing in the cups;
Ringing in the cups;
We shall come rejoicing,
Ringing in the cups!