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Topic: Beauty versus Durability - Cups & Balls
Message: Posted by: SlackerRan (Sep 16, 2006 10:30PM)
I suspect the answer to my question is that ideally I could use 2 sets of cups or more. That said, I'm trying to strike a balance between a beautiful set like some Sterwoods, yet I also want a very durable set like I suspect Gary Knight's would hold up on the street. Assuming that I accidentally dropped my cups occasionally over the years, plus tapped them a little roughly over the years with a wand, how much durability am I giving up if I went with some Sherwood's versus Gary's? Additionally, I'm coming from plastic cups ready to make my big cups purchase that I will hopefully use my entire life, so I'm not married to a particular metal (i.e. engraved silver versus copper), although a nice copper patina sounds nice. Beauty versus street durability - am I really giving up that much durability with some Sherwoods? Also, can typical Sherwoods load a typical orange?

Much Thanks,
Bob
Message: Posted by: StevenKidwell (Sep 16, 2006 10:49PM)
This is very subjective question you've posed here. What do you consider beautiful? To many, the well worn copper cups beat to hell are beautiful.
I have a set of Sherwood Engraved Silver cups, and they are in my opinion, beautiful cups. I think everyone would agree with that statement,though. The Engraved Sherwoods are not what I would consider "street durable", but they are pretty durable for being solid silver cups. They won't take a beating from a wand, but they do not need to be treated with kid gloves. The wall thickness and weight is substantial. Personally, I love Sherwoods design, and the brass set I would expect to be "street worthy".
Johnson Cups are also wonderful, very nice design, ring like bells, and incredibly durable.
It's all a matter of budget, intended use, and what your personal preferences are.

Steve
Message: Posted by: SlackerRan (Sep 16, 2006 11:48PM)
>> To many, the well worn copper cups beat to hell are beautiful.

Fair point – I realize it is a loaded question  Yup, worn copper is definitely beautiful to me – I dig the character. Can they withstand some occasional 5 foot falls to concrete? Do I have to pamper them with some wand taps? Yes, I truly dig a copper patina, yet I don't want to fret every time a cup approaches a fall. A nice patina is sweet, yet I want durability too. I guess I want it all, which means I want to weigh the tradeoffs. I would dig some weathered patina cups, but I also want it to hold up well for 30 years with some unforeseen mishaps. So your thoughts - Sherwood or Gary Knight? If I had to lean one way or the other, I guess I'd lean more towards durability versus a sweet patina on a soft gentle copper cup, but maybe I’m underestimated how durable that copper set would be. So don't make me guess :), Gary or Sherwood? :) I know I dig the pics of a Sherwood, yet I don’t want to pamper my working cups which makes the Gary/ Gazzo cups attractive. What do you think?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 16, 2006 11:54PM)
This is really a no-brainer. If you plan to beat your cups up, get some that are really heavy. If you are going to be somewhat careful with them, go with something that is a little less heavy.

Don't get me wrong. The Sherwoods aren't light cups. But if you are going to manhandle them or work above concrete, you should use something that will take a beating.

The question is where are you going to get Gary Knights' cups? There aren't any for sale, unless you strike it lucky on eBay. There may be some there now.

The Johnson cups are very durable, as well.

And there are also some stainless steel cups available from van Dokkum that are virtually indestructible.

Check out the cups and balls museum.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Sep 17, 2006 12:00AM)
Cellini Cups fit this criteria, I think.
Not as heavy as Animal cups but good enough.

And what about RNTII Street cups? I've not held a set YET but that could be
an option.

The only Riser cups I've heald were the minis but there were certainly what I would consider a heavy gauge.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Sep 17, 2006 12:13AM)
The following from us are street "worthy"

PF Chick Cups brass or copper
Phoenix II Cups Copper
SBL/RNT II Copper Street Cups
SBL/RNT II Foxy II.V Copper Cups


Jake
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 17, 2006 12:28AM)
If I were working on the street with any good set of cups -- including the ones you just mentioned, Jake, I would put a piece of carpet down under my table.
Message: Posted by: James Kernen (Sep 17, 2006 08:17AM)
I just listed a large set and a golf set of copper Gazzo cups on ebay.... My ebay ID is the same as my Café ID....
Message: Posted by: Arkadia (Sep 17, 2006 08:42AM)
I second the Cellini cups. Beautiful, heavy and durable. I bought mine some months ago and are very satisfied. Easy to handle aswell. (They have a great balance aswell - which makes some cup juggling moves really easy.)

/Ark
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 17, 2006 12:58PM)
My chief objection to the Cellini cups is that unless you use very small balls, you can't do a three ball display on top of the cups. Also, they could stand to be opened out just a little more. You have to be very careful when selecting a baseball for the final loads on these cups.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 17, 2006 01:35PM)
The Animal cups are virtually indestructable, especially if you can get your hands on the "mega thick" ones. Any dings you put in them make them look better, denting a Sherwood cup would be a crime against all that is good.
Message: Posted by: Andy_Bell (Sep 18, 2006 06:03AM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-17 09:17, sp1d wrote:
I just listed a large set and a golf set of copper Gazzo cups on ebay.... My ebay ID is the same as my Café ID....
[/quote]

I just searched and can't see them?
was it a 1 day auction or something?
Message: Posted by: James Kernen (Sep 18, 2006 08:46AM)
They are both out there for few more days.... I have them listed for domestic shipping only so perhaps your search parameters are showing them... I do ship internationally (about 10% of the time), but prefer that the international bidders and I touch basis ahead of time to agree on shipping method and cost.....

Even if the search does not show up, you should still be able to find my user ID sp1d on the US ebay site.....
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Sep 18, 2006 10:28AM)
[quote]
On 2006-09-17 13:58, Bill Palmer wrote:
My chief objection to the Cellini cups is that unless you use very small balls, you can't do a three ball display on top of the cups. Also, they could stand to be opened out just a little more. You have to be very careful when selecting a baseball for the final loads on these cups.

[/quote]

Quite right. And they wobble a bit. Since I don't use the 3 on top for my routine, that's ok but I did have to go shopping for the proper baseballs. I prefer using an orange (except at the ballpark) and the wobbling I have long since forgotten about in terms of caring. It doesn't really matter to me that it does.

I think using 3 tiny balls with that cup is a mistake. If you do 3 on top, I think you need different cups. Bill is correct.
Message: Posted by: Ronnie Ramin (Sep 18, 2006 02:45PM)
I would get as high of quality for as low a price as possible when working the street. I bought some Animal seconds a few years ago that are big tough and heavy, a perfect street cup for $100. The first day I used them a spectator dropped one on the concrete. I just hammered it out with my wand and went on. No way would I take a Sherwood out on the street. I also have a set of the Old Phoenix cups (seconds) that I picked up in a trade. Great work horse cups as well.

Ronnie
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Sep 18, 2006 03:54PM)
Let me add this. I recently purchased a video of Ross Bertram doing his Egyptian cups routine. The Bertram cups have a tendency to be quite wobbly. But Bertram used this to his advantage. He would place his hand on top of the stack and move his hand in a small circle. The cups would wiggle and wobble with that movement in a very pleasant way.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Sep 18, 2006 06:08PM)
I imagine that would be the ideal method for the Cellini cups as well.
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Sep 25, 2006 02:47PM)
If you are coming from plastic I see no reason to expend a lot of money, all you need is a magic maker or bazar de magia set. if after a week you feel like you need another set.....you are hooked, and there is no cure!