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Topic: Originals and rip-offs
Message: Posted by: Lusion (Nov 19, 2006 04:55PM)
I know this has been talked about time and time again, I came across this video on youtube and I contacted the magician in it. He sent me a copy of his show on DVD which I have to say every trick and illusion is "Borrowed" from someone else, mostly Copperfield and his Eternal String patter is from Alexander, the point is I don't know where he gets his props but as you can see on the comments on youtube, I wonder how good of an eye people have to say his origami is a fake? It does not look like mine which was built by and authorized builder but there are a few buiders.
You can see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLbKErGAhWY&NR
Message: Posted by: BRodgers (Nov 19, 2006 05:47PM)
The video wont work. It is marked as private. You get this message:

"This is a private video. If you have been sent this video, please make sure you accept the sender's friend request."
Message: Posted by: Lusion (Nov 19, 2006 06:14PM)
Sorry about that.... Didn't realize that , hmm also try:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MagicofBq
Message: Posted by: Bryan Gilles (Nov 19, 2006 11:13PM)
Yes, this is Brandon... he is also a member here on the Café'. I'm not at liberty to say as much as I'd like to about this guy; however, I have noticed a bit of borrowed routines from his show!

-Bryan
Message: Posted by: Wade Live (Nov 19, 2006 11:55PM)
You must be kidding me, right?
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Nov 20, 2006 07:53AM)
Although I've not seen the routine being talked about, it's one thing to copy the routines of others. They are, after all, great sources for ideas and inspiration. You might say, "Wow...I did not think of trying this effect like that!"

It's another to copy the routine of others exactly, line for line, and NOT change it somehow to make it your own.

Put the shoe on the other foot. How would you like to spend hundreds, if not thousands, of hours creating, rehearsing, changing and perfecting something only to have someone else steal it and use it as if it were theirs?

Mark.
Message: Posted by: Caveat Lector (Nov 20, 2006 09:35AM)
I have seen this guy selling illusions on eBay, his knock off props look like ****. He obviously is a punk and has no integrity in his work. "If you are going to steal, steal from the best." But I don't think that statement meant to steal a whole act word for word. I think if he is going to steal anything it should be a new wardrobe. Here is a hint...buy cloths that fit [b]you[/b]...not Copperfield.
Message: Posted by: mvmagic (Nov 20, 2006 10:42AM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-20 10:35, Caveat Lector wrote:
I think if he is going to steal anything it should be a new wardrobe. Here is a hint...buy cloths that fit YOU...not Copperfield.
[/quote]

Absolutely! Besides he looks like someone who works behind a desk from 9 to 5. I am not saying one should sparkle like The Strip or dress in Gucci from head to toe but clothing is really important. I really don't understand where he is getting at with that wardrobe...it makes him blend in a lot and its...hhhmmm...shall I say not the best choice for his physique.

I was watching his shadow box routine and was amazed by the arrogance he showed after appearing. I really got the impression that he had no respect for the audience. Very self-satisfied demeanor like he'd be thinking "Yeah I gotcha suckers you cant do that, can ya!!"

Sad.
Message: Posted by: r1ch-oxford (Nov 20, 2006 01:51PM)
Hi Lusion

I left the message about the ripped off Origami illusion on the video clip. I have been researching the Origami illusion for sometime. I own a John Gaughan version. As has been mentioned here several times there are only 2 licensed builders in the world. They are Wellington Entreprise and John Gaughan himself.

The version Brandon is using is neither, You can tell this by looking closely at the base and the way the box opens. the flaps at the top of the box are recessed slightly. which neither of the licensed ones are. The mirror is also smaller than any that are supplied by Mr Gaughan or Wellington. My best guess is that his came from Dominik Magic in Italy, a well known rip off builder. Have a look at the link below, I'm sure you will see the resembalance.

Rich

http://www.dominikmagic.com/English/paypal/item027/item027.htm
Message: Posted by: Lusion (Nov 20, 2006 02:13PM)
I didn't notice the mirror, Bill at wellington told me to check the out but now I don't see the video but I have his dvd somewhere.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 20, 2006 05:20PM)
Geez... everybody's private stuff is ripped off here. ARgh... :kermit:
Message: Posted by: magicmarkdaniel (Nov 20, 2006 05:32PM)
I noticed a dealer at Blackpool Magic Convention, 2005, who was selling Origamis, Modern Arts and some really crappy looking Sub Trunks (I think they were a pinky/salmon type of colour). The Origami looked suspiciously like the one on Dominik's site. Can anyone confirm if it was Dominik at the convention? I remember the box, when folded, was MUCH larger than the original and takes away a lot of the mystery. Whoever it was that was selling (and taking orders for) these, you'd have thought they wouldn't have been allowed at such a well known and respected convention.

Mark
Message: Posted by: r1ch-oxford (Nov 20, 2006 05:54PM)
Mark

I didn't make it to Blackpool this year. I agree that is shocking if they allowed a dealer to sell something that is so heavily licensed. The other point is that it is heavily licensed for a good reason. I haven't seen a fake one yet that would fool an audience where the lighting wasn't perfectly controlled. That is what is so beautiful about the real ones. There is no special situation required to perform it in. I did it in my living room last week and fooled some family friends, and they were 5 feet away.

Rich
Message: Posted by: The Drake (Nov 20, 2006 05:59PM)
So sad to see magic organizations defy the very ethics they are based on for a few bucks of rental space. How can we expect others to stick to ethics when the larger orgs don't practice what they preach.

Best,

Tim
Message: Posted by: IllusionJack (Nov 20, 2006 11:55PM)
I'm not sure what mvmagic is getting at with the comment on the wardrobe. Brandon isn't wearing anything too flashy, it's just a dress shirt and dress slacks. To me that seems pretty conservative and it fits his physical form fine. It looks fine on him.

I like the various little jokes he makes with the stagehand. Those are really pretty funny.

Also I liked his Gypsy Thread presentation. Good way to integrate his message into the patter even though I personally wouldn't put religion into a show.

I enjoyed the snow routine. Though I felt the snow from magician's hands part was very weak, I did enjoy the snow all over the audience as well as the spotlight irising down to a point on the snow globe at the end. In my opinion snow routines in general seem overdone - and I myself have had difficulty coming up with something other than the usual "childhood dream" or "I met a kid who has never seen snow so I made some" scenarios.

(On a side note, about the best snow presentation I've ever done involved a private show I did for two little girls a few Christmas's ago. Their mom had recently been laid off from her job and the kids weren't going to get a Christmas. I was put in touch with them and took them out for a suprise night of magic. This included taking them to Denver's Civic Center Park and presenting them with gifts from under a natural tall pine tree. It also included making it snow in the park, when it was not otherwise snowing outside.)

A lot of Brandon's presentations really do smack of David Copperfield. For example during the card mentalism prediction routine, when the ball is about to be thrown, we hear the line "whoever it cracks in the head" which is a direct copy of DC. We also see the box being lowered from a chain and brought to the stage by two stagehands, and the line is "bring the box to the stage" which is another direct copy, and the same exact music is used here as in the DC show at the same moment.

Brandon's show would have great potential and I think it's already good. It just needs to have all the DC copied stuff removed from it. Was the audience in that venue was more enthusiastic than they seemed on the video?

--Jack :pepsi:
Message: Posted by: Bryan Gilles (Nov 21, 2006 12:28AM)
IllusionJack,

I apologize if this come across negatively or whatever... If he removed the Copperfield knock-offs from his show, he wouldn't have a show...
Message: Posted by: IllusionJack (Nov 21, 2006 12:36AM)
That is not far from the truth I'm afraid.

Further browsing of Brandon's website reveals a "Beach" illusion that looks strikingly similar to Portal.

I worry that folks who go see Brandon's show, who have also seen Copperfield, will notice the rip-offs and this will hurt Brandon in the long-run.

Brandon! Are you reading this??

--Jack :pepsi:
Message: Posted by: Steve Knight (Nov 21, 2006 04:18AM)
So the Blackpool magic convention is still the place for rip-off's? It was just the same some 15 years back when they were allowing delalers to sell poorly built 'Impailed's'. It seems that some of the biggest names are willing to endorse the practise. 'Cosmosis' and 'Dynamic Coins' are both sold by Marvin's Magic, neither with permission, and look who's behind that company! - If Brandon is pushing a christian message in his shows it's interesting that he doesn't let his faith interfere with his ethics!
Message: Posted by: mvmagic (Nov 21, 2006 05:12AM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-21 00:55, IllusionJack wrote:
I'm not sure what mvmagic is getting at with the comment on the wardrobe. Brandon isn't wearing anything too flashy, it's just a dress shirt and dress slacks. To me that seems pretty conservative and it fits his physical form fine. It looks fine on him.[/quote]

What I am getting at that it doesn't fit him or look fine for that matter. It looks very boring. The stage is so dark and the muted colors of his clothing blends very much with the surroundings. It is a stage show he is doing. Many people don't want to see guy dressed like an office clerk on stage. I was taught an important lesson by a friend of mine whose luminous career has lasted over 40 decades (and she is still on top). The way you dress shows your audience how much you respect them.

Like I said in my original post, clothing doesn't need to like Liberace's or you don't need to wear top brands all the way. In this case, just different colors would do much difference. You don't need to be flashy to look smart and stand out. But quite frankly, being on stage as the star performer, you NEED to stand out. Just like bad costume design can kill a movie about the queen of England, it can kill a stage show.
Message: Posted by: magicmarkdaniel (Nov 21, 2006 08:22AM)
Let me just make clear that the stall I mentioned selling rip offs was the only stall I saw there that was selling goods of this sort. This was at the 2005 convention, I'm not sure about whether it was there this year or not, as I wsn't able to get there this year.

On the whole, Blackpool Convention is superb and has some great dealers. Its just a shame that this particular dealer managed to slip through the net.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Caveat Lector (Nov 21, 2006 10:52AM)
I must second the remarks of mvmagic. His choice of costuming is just not right. He is trying to pull of what DC has been doing for some time now. Wearing the blue shirt with black pants, which I personally don't really care for, but it works for DC, not Brandon. I am not the smallest guy in the world so I dress appropriately for my size. When you are a bit on the rotund size you should never tuck in your shirt as it shows your midsection off in a very unflattering way. If he wore a jacket it would look just so much better, or even a vest. His routines scream imitation, but only to us, as I am sure he is not working for magicians he does not have to worry about what most people think. Most regular audiences either don't know or just don't care, they only wish to be entertained. I think he is a kid with too much money who is just going down the wrong path. Hopefully he will read these posts and sell the knock offs and use the money to buy authorized versions. Not only will he be more respected within the community(if he cares), but the good versions look 10 times better than any knock off piece of s**t. Sorry for that but unfortunately that is the way they look.
Message: Posted by: cardfreakhk (Nov 21, 2006 11:13AM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-20 14:51, r1ch-oxford wrote:
Hi Lusion

I left the message about the ripped off Origami illusion on the video clip. I have been researching the Origami illusion for sometime. I own a John Gaughan version. As has been mentioned here several times there are only 2 licensed builders in the world. They are Wellington Entreprise and John Gaughan himself.

The version Brandon is using is neither, You can tell this by looking closely at the base and the way the box opens. the flaps at the top of the box are recessed slightly. which neither of the licensed ones are. The mirror is also smaller than any that are supplied by Mr Gaughan or Wellington. My best guess is that his came from Dominik Magic in Italy, a well known rip off builder. Have a look at the link below, I'm sure you will see the resembalance.

Rich

http://www.dominikmagic.com/English/paypal/item027/item027.htm


[/quote]WOW! What a thief! Can someone stop this? Please stop hurting our art! FXXK!
Message: Posted by: Lusion (Nov 21, 2006 11:59AM)
BTW Jack his gypsy thread routine is not his (not a shock) its actually Alexanders routine word for word with the presentation.
Message: Posted by: IllusionJack (Nov 21, 2006 08:29PM)
Oh really? I didn't know that. Did Alexander include the Jesus Christ message as well?

I will agree with mvmagic that the costume is nothing particularly special or anything. But I also don't think he looks bad in it.

--Jack :pepsi:
Message: Posted by: Lusion (Nov 21, 2006 08:42PM)
Yes Alexander did include the Jesus Christ message as well, its word for word minus 1 or 2 words. That message sticks in your head after you watch it. I was sitting down with my daughter and commenting how Brandon is taking so much from Copperfield and then when he sat down to do the thread we laughed and said what if he did Alexanders routine...and you should have seen our mouths drop when he started talking and repeating what we seen Alexander do a few years ago in Tahoe!!!
Message: Posted by: ricker (Nov 21, 2006 08:44PM)
You know, that would be an interesting character to create, a magicial office clerk.
Message: Posted by: MR2Guy (Nov 22, 2006 11:13PM)
[quote]You know, that would be an interesting character to create, a magicial office clerk.[/quote]
Uh, that would take someone who can, ya know, create?

Take care

Jason
Message: Posted by: royaltmagic (Nov 22, 2006 11:45PM)
Imitation is the highest form of flatery.
Besides...he's trying to appeal to the lay audience...which is who pays his bills. Not other magicians. Let him be.

-Travis
Message: Posted by: Lusion (Nov 23, 2006 12:42PM)
SORRY TRAVIS!!!! That is a NO NO you have then completely missed it all!!! It starts with the rip of anothers performance, most people agree that some way shape or form we have all done this but he continues with unauthorized illusions, its not about his show which a lot of people have turned it into but rather time for him to take a step in responsibility. Everyone grows and I hope that he does the same, before he changes his show I would hope that he would first replace the knockoff and obtain an authorized version, if not he is hurting us as a whole, hurting those that help us take our shows and illusions to the next level the designers. I highly respect designers Steinmeyer, Summers, Parker and everyone else. I would hope that you would also. Unless we can get a grip on this then our art will suffer in the long run. So Travis we cant let it be, rather I can not.
Message: Posted by: royaltmagic (Nov 23, 2006 08:52PM)
Lusion,

I respect your opinion, and even see a few of your points of view...but it happens, it's going to happen. It happens in almost every field out there (e.g., Coke, Pepsi, generic colas. Toyota Matrix vs. Pontiac Vibe, etc...). One person sees what another has done successfully (who also got their ideas from someone else, and so on) and they want to imitate that. Not only that, but they see it, admire it. Haven't you ever tried to re-create something that you admired?
I'm not saying that he should stay where he is, but yes, rather move on...but for the time being, if he is successful at it and the lay people like him, why bother him? Lay people don't know who created what effect...nor do they care. They just want to be entertained. If we're all so worried about knock-offs, then why don't we patent the dang things? Until then, we have nothing to complain about.
Thanks for your time and response.

-Travis
Message: Posted by: Lusion (Nov 23, 2006 08:56PM)
Well Origami is patented now what is to be said?
Message: Posted by: royaltmagic (Nov 23, 2006 09:03PM)
If it is truly and legitimately patented...then you're right. He need not be using a knock-off. Now go get 'em tiger.

-Travis
Message: Posted by: Lusion (Nov 23, 2006 09:05PM)
LOL
Message: Posted by: SpellbinderEntertainment (Nov 24, 2006 11:40AM)
As for this act, he actually has the nerve to have a snapshot of him standing with Copperfield on his website.

He does not dress well for a man performing on stage, his clothes do not make a positive statement about him or his performance.
He frankly looks like he works in the mailroom of a real-estate agency.

Now… is some guy who had a few art classes paints copy after copy of a famous Picasso, even forging the signature, and sells them at street fairs….

Is this man an artist?

Yet this is exactly what many of our brother and sister “magicians” do!

If you’re walking through the streets of Florence Italy and you pick up one of those little deformed plaster copies of Michelangelo’s “David” are you now a collector of fine art?

Yet, this is practically what you’re getting when you buy a cheaply turned out rip-off illusion.

Do you want to be a Magician or a Xerox-of-a-Xerox-of-a-Xerox-copy-of-a “magician”.

An audience knows…
Yes, they want to be entertained,
but I highly doubt the true entertainment value,
watching some guy in Wal-Mart slacks pushing clunky boxes around the stage,
parroting lines he’s taped off television specials without permission.

The way our laws are currently written, there is a Catch-22 and it is almost impossible to truly protect our magic.

More attention has been focused upon Intellectual Property protections, however to apply those protections many companies hire huge law firms and spend untold thousands of dollars, something most performers and magical inventors just do not have the time or funds to do.

Magically,
Walt
Message: Posted by: Scott Penrose (Nov 26, 2006 12:17PM)
On the subject of knock offs, there are plans being sold on ebay at the moment for Interlude illusion. I have complained to ebay about knock offs of various illusions and plans over the years...but no one seems to care. The problem is that these plans do not even help you build a decent model...which can only be bad for the business.

Scott
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 26, 2006 03:16PM)
[quote]
On 2006-11-23 22:03, royaltmagic wrote:
If it is truly and legitimately patented...then you're right. He need not be using a knock-off. Now go get 'em tiger.

-Travis
[/quote]
This has been discussed before. You can look up the patent for Origami by going to the USPTO website and doing a search on Steinmeyer. It's not easy to find. There is a patent, as well as one for improvements.


Posted: Dec 4, 2006 1:47am
--------------------------------------------
I want to also point out that there is a regular poster here who keeps "improving" the various Steinmeyer illusions, such as Origami and Interlude. What he doesn't realize is that some of his "improvements" are not new at all, nor are they necessarily improvements over what is actually being done. Criss Angel featured an "open Interlude" in his stage show for some time. It's a lot better than what this fellow is trying to peddle. And if anyone thinks that Steinmeyer hasn't considered every possible positioning method for an assistant, he is in for a shock. All I can say is that if you want to do Jim's illusions, bite the bullet and pay for them. This is a business where you get what you pay for.