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Topic: Looking for lemon cups
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Nov 28, 2006 07:47AM)
I've got a corporate walk around gig coming up. I want to do a cups routine, but all I've got right now are my big Gazzo cups. Can people offer ideas for a set of cups for me that are:

1) copper
2) hold lemon final loads
3) are in the $50 or below range or so


Message: Posted by: John Bowlin (Nov 28, 2006 09:32AM)
The collectors cups on ebay that look like the penguin cups. I just picked up a pair for $45 with shipping. I should have them in a day or two. They look to be the same cups penguin sells for $99. Or get a set of bazaar de magia cups if you can find them. I don't find the uday cups to even be worth their low price.
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Nov 28, 2006 10:12AM)
I've got 3 sets of magic makers cups on e-bay for just about 50 each and choose the 3 best cups and sold the other 2 sets, they are good
Message: Posted by: CJRichard (Nov 28, 2006 11:32AM)
The copper Bazar de Magia cups are up to around $75 now, almost double what they were last summer, although maybe you can find some on ebay.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 28, 2006 12:08PM)
Call me and I'll loan you a set of whatever you need.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Nov 28, 2006 01:31PM)
Pete, you beat me to it! I was just about to suggest the same thing. I have a set of Animal "Love" cups gathering dust right now that need some breaking in. You're closer to him, so that's even better and it saves having to ship mine back and forth.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Nov 28, 2006 02:15PM)
Pete can I borrow your sherwood silver cups? I only need them for a few decades?
Message: Posted by: cfrye (Nov 28, 2006 02:37PM)
There's a lotta love in this room, Frank, but I don't know if there's that much.

Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 28, 2006 06:39PM)
I sold 'em Frank. Otherwise I wouldn't loan them to you on a bet :kermit:
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Nov 28, 2006 07:35PM)
Life is too short, who is gonna take care of all those beautifull cups?, give away to poor magicians the cups! (i am in front of the line)
Message: Posted by: Skotster (Nov 28, 2006 09:35PM)
I got a set of cups from Ellusionist, they are perfect for lemon or limes as final loads. I don't know if they still carry them but they are Bazar DeMagia and they are the de luxe cups.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Nov 29, 2006 12:08AM)
Thank you, everyone, especially Dave and Pete for your amazingly generousity. Pete,
What can I saw. What a guy. Anyone who has never seen Pete do his Indian cup routine is missing a classic.

Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Nov 29, 2006 01:00PM)
Is there any place in the internet we can see a video of pete biro performing his indian cups routine ??
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 29, 2006 01:44PM)
Nope. Don't want it out. Only for private shows for big money! (just kidding)! I don't do videos.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Nov 29, 2006 02:02PM)
I will only say that Pete's routine has some moves that he invented and that are very deceptive and that Pete's character for this routine is a riot.

Message: Posted by: John Bowlin (Nov 29, 2006 05:55PM)
I just received the collectors cups. My comments about them are as follows
Fairly heavy
Nicely proportioned
Will take a med size lemon
Stack nicely
Decent finish
Minor cosmetic imperfections
Rolled lip typical of MM cups...make sure you don't have food on your hands
Interior raw unburnished and discolored but fairly smooth
Ball are adequate but not uniform spheres
Three 3/4" balls will rest gingerly on a cup

There is nothing wrong with these cups for performing, they are nicely weighted and handle well for all standard C&B's moves. If you are looking to put a set of standard size cups thru some real work then these are a steal at $45. If you are looking for a purty set of cups to display on your trophy C&B's shelf then these cups are not for you. The cups are polished to a bright smooth finish but display some minor scratches, blemishes, pits and contour lines from forming.

They are not showpieces but if they are to be used...especially in street performing the imperfections will pale to the character marks I will put on these cups performing. They have the same load width as by bazaar cups but shorter in height which I find a better illusion when dropping a lacrosse ball or lemon load.

I find these cups more desirable for performing than my bazaar cups at this time and considering bazaar cups are now $78 before shipping...these cups are a bargain at $45 shipped. These are the redheaded stepchild of cups.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 29, 2006 06:18PM)
Let's examine why these are the redheaded stepchild of cups.
1) They are an unabashed knockoff of the Paul Fox cups.
2) They are made by a company that has specialized in stealing the material of other makers. Take a look at their web site. They have ripped off
The Thought Transmitter Wallet
The Perfect Pen Thru Anything
Badlands Bob
The Vanishing Lifesavers
Watch and Wear
In fact, of all of the things on their web site, only their DVD's have any originality. I don't have room to list all the stuff they have knocked off.

What they have done is not illegal. They have changed the names of the items, but they have copied their physical appearance. Most of their tricks do not work. Or they don't work as well as the originals. But the things they have stolen are not protected by patent, so it's legal.

But it isn't moral.

The only reason ANY of their cups are in my museum is for historical completeness.
Message: Posted by: John Bowlin (Dec 1, 2006 10:44AM)
You are quite right as usual Bill. I can only sleep at night knowing I bought these cups for collector and historical purposes even if I do give them the beating they deserve. I'm just a few collection decades behind you Bill.

I always try to purchase from the originator or those who have the rights to effects. I'm not in the habit of supporting rip-offs. Did anyone actually take over the production rights for Paul Fox cups after Danny Dew quit making them?
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Dec 1, 2006 12:11PM)
I belive jake has the rights however he is not makeing any more standar cups. check his site http://www.rnt2.com/
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 1, 2006 01:06PM)
The rights to the Paul Fox cups are a source of controversy. A lot of the material related to this is on my web site, as well as on the James Riser site.

In the late 1970's or early 1980's, Jeff Busby purchased the rights from Danny Dew. However, there is some question as to whether Danny's rights were transferrable. This happened without any consent or consultation with the Paul Fox estate.

Jeff registered a trademark, which was actually a monogram that Paul had used. Whenever a Paul Fox item would come up for auction on eBay, Jeff would get the auction closed down, because he "had exclusive distribution rights for the Paul Fox material." He didn't understand that he could not legally control the sale of used merchandise. This practice, as well as some others, got him into some trouble.

Eventually, Jeff let his trademark registration lapse. After some time, the registration was picked up by Rnt 2.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Dec 2, 2006 08:28AM)
Jeff Busby didn't actually let the trademark lapse, in law he abandoned the trademark. RNT II picked up the trademark after almost 1 year of it sitting in the registry with no activity. By abandoning the trademark, Jeff also abandoned all products that he used the trademark on, 2 of them being the Paul Fox Cups and Chick Cups primarily for us. The trademark was never copyrighted and even if it had been, copyright has lapsed and can not be copyrighted, only registered in the TARR registry. RNT II had 3 law firms confirm this, all of them being corporate, copyright and trademark attorneys.

Jeff must have missed the chapter on abandonement of trademarks in all his law books he kept referring to over the years when he harrassed sellers on ebay.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Dec 2, 2006 08:36PM)
Fact is Busby never completed payment to Danny Dew, and based on conversations with members of the Fox Estate, Danny never really had the ownership or rights of the Fox name, logo or designs.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Dec 2, 2006 10:24PM)
However, based on coporate law, any copyright had already lapsed and the registration of the trademark went unchallenged without dispute when Busby registered the PF logo.

An exaustive search was done for copyright, registration, pending registration and legal litigation. All returned zero results and history. The fact that Busby did not complete payment does not make him in default per say unless their is a contract and proof of litigation of failure to act on the contract as outlined.

Wether Danny had rights to the name, logo or designs remains in question and is hearsay unless actual legal documentation exists. But at this point, any documentation would most likely not be considered as the copyright on any of the above would have expired. History of the logo only shows that Jeff Busby was the registrant, no other registrants or first date of use prior to Busby were returned in a legal registration history search.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 2, 2006 10:50PM)
The field of IP law is very complex. Trademarks, for example, last as long as they are used and/or renewed. If a trademark is abandoned, then woe to the person who abandoned it. He can't get it back.

Corporate law textbooks are not of much use in the changing world if IP law. Information that was current in 1995 is now completely out of date. The best source for most of us is the USPTO web site, which clearly explains what the differences and the applications of trademark, copyright and patent are.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#ptsc has enough to confuse almost anyone who is interested in the subject.
Message: Posted by: Zack (Dec 9, 2006 04:22PM)
Where do you get the collector's cups?