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Topic: In the Beginning There Were Coins DVD Starring Jay Noblezada
Message: Posted by: Review King (Dec 30, 2006 07:05PM)
It's expected to arrive at Penguin on February 1st, 2007.

http://penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=1581

It says "This course will take you from beginner to pro in coin magic".

Well...that isn't going to happen. I watched the demo clip and that wasn't the impression I got.
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Dec 30, 2006 07:51PM)
"You'll be able to go out and get those audience reactions that I know you deserve."

Jay says this in the demo, and it just made me laugh. I like the guy and his charming personality on camera, but this was such a blatant selling point. For that matter, many "magicians" don't deserve audience reactions - especially the ones that purchase 5 tricks from Penguin and Ellusionist and start butchering tricks for unsuspecting people.

Sorry if this post was a little harsh! It's been a long day.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Dec 30, 2006 09:11PM)
Too bad there isn't any mention of the months or years of practice needed.........
Message: Posted by: Review King (Dec 30, 2006 09:36PM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-30 22:11, Tom G wrote:
Too bad there isn't any mention of the months or years of practice needed.........
[/quote]

I think you only need two hours now.
Message: Posted by: Majestic12 (Dec 30, 2006 10:03PM)
The DVD looks great..... great for me to PoPoun .


It looks well produced and edited but for the actual magic content, teaching, and crediting.... I guess we will all see when it is released
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Dec 30, 2006 10:14PM)
I learned a finger palm and classic palm from Now You See It, Now You Don't by Bill Tarr, and then everything else from Sankey's Revolutionary Coin Magic. It just took months of practice. There are so many sources already on the market for learning coin magic already. I could be wrong' perhaps this new dvd will be great! You never know.
Message: Posted by: Jeff J. (Dec 30, 2006 10:32PM)
I have an old VHS from "Magic Max" that says by following the lessons, you can master magic in HOURS instead of DAYS! Too bad I never followed the lessons.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Dec 30, 2006 11:03PM)
I like the post production and editing. Nice lighting and camera angles.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Dec 31, 2006 12:50AM)
I may get it. Comes out on my birthday..how lucky for me
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Dec 31, 2006 01:46AM)
I don't know, I think your better off going with the greats, I too had a Hard time Reading Coin Instructions, but Roth, the Dr. to only mention a few have some truely great DVDs out. I rather pay the extra to learn properly. Maybe after I review I might change my mind.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Dec 31, 2006 06:33AM)
Yes, Roth all the way... :) ...
Message: Posted by: harishjose (Dec 31, 2006 07:22AM)
I loved how Joe was talking about how coins were everyday objects or something to that effect and then started performing magic with Dollar / half dollar coins.
Message: Posted by: Paul Wingham (Dec 31, 2006 07:45AM)
My favourite bit was "most magicians don't do coin magic" who are these most magicians? I assume penguin faithfulls that have realised that even tricks with gimmick coins require a bit of hard work.

I'm sure the production will be great however I learnt the basics from a simon lovell video from repro magic that was shot from one shaky camcorder proving content is the most important thing. I imagine this dvd will teach nothing more than mediocracy. Which is not a bad standard for most penguin magic.
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Dec 31, 2006 08:39AM)
Roth for me. He not only shows you palms and switches, he also teaches some really sweet routines. His patter needs a little work though, but when your that good, you really don't need to talk(joking). Jay's dvd may teach the coin sleights that one needs, but I feel that like any forum of magic, much practice is needed. I also feel that learning from dvd's is somewhat easier then say reading some of the explainations in BoBos. Oh well, to each his own.
Message: Posted by: Swifty34 (Dec 31, 2006 09:36AM)
I can't wait for some reviews to come up, this really looks awesome
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Dec 31, 2006 10:51AM)
Isn't pretty much all of this stuff on Michael Ammars basic coin dvd??
Message: Posted by: Eric Gretencord (Dec 31, 2006 10:52AM)
What ever happened with building a solid foundation with books such as Bobo's and Coin Magic?

[quote]
On 2006-12-30 22:36, MagicChris wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-12-30 22:11, Tom G wrote:
Too bad there isn't any mention of the months or years of practice needed.........
[/quote]

I think you only need two hours now.
[/quote]

I can't stop laughing at that.
Message: Posted by: Louis.P.M (Dec 31, 2006 12:24PM)
The thing is people change. I've been thinking about it for a while and I think Penguin is clearly targeting a younger audience (yeah, I know.. I'm clever). So, they release a DVD with a VH1 feel, a techno soundtrack and flashy colors. So what? I bet Jay is a good teacher, he sure looks confident.
As for the content, it looks to be a solid foundation of coin work. I have the Bobo book and there is A LOT of material I will never use. Here for 30$ you have a dynamic DVD with moves that I'm sure you all do everyday for kids who don't the attention span to sit through a book.
It's not worse, it's simply different.

But.... yes they could be clearer about how much time it takes to do coin magic effectively (I'm not ready to perform this kind of magic myself)

(The good ol' days are over :))
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Dec 31, 2006 12:51PM)
A lot of this stuff is on Ammar's DVD, but not all. And it's also on the Roth and other beginner DVDs.

Frankly, I don't think the Ammar is that great, so IMO the market is still wide open for a decent single-disk beginner coin DVD. We'll see if this one is it.
Message: Posted by: Jeff J. (Dec 31, 2006 11:20PM)
"...for kids who don't the attention span to sit through a book."

HEY! I'm a fully grown adult and I don't have the attention span to sit through a book. Then again, I don't have the attention span to finish writing this po......ohhhh, look at that shiny ring......
Message: Posted by: Danny Diamond (Jan 2, 2007 09:10AM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-31 08:45, Paul Wingham wrote:
My favourite bit was "most magicians don't do coin magic" who are these most magicians? I assume penguin faithfulls[/quote]

Yes, the quote is obviously directed towards their crop of magicians - the ones who for the most part, do not realize that magic exists outside the walls of Penguinville. So Jay is probably right - most PENGUIN magicians do not do coin magic. And that is mostly because Penguin doesn't really offer many coin Instant Downloads. Reading is for suckaz!
Message: Posted by: rippedandrestored35 (Jan 2, 2007 11:45AM)
Ill be purchasing it then reviewing it. I mean most the stuff on the demo was simple sleights I already new. BUt we all know all the penguin kids will be wanting to purchase this in beliefs that this is the best beginner coin resource because its being produced by penguin magic. Again Im not saying it looks terrible. Ill just have to wait then Ill review it for everyone to see.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 2, 2007 12:03PM)
The "kids" will be downloading this about a week after it is first sold.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Jan 2, 2007 08:47PM)
Jay seems to be a very good magician. Who knows, maybe this will be a solid project.
Message: Posted by: Zezenki (Jan 3, 2007 05:26PM)
I know some people might think it was terrible, but Born to Perform really got me on my feet, so I am expecting another quality product.
Message: Posted by: LWright (Jan 3, 2007 07:56PM)
Great. I'm going to be a pro coin magician after this, and don't you try and stop me. I deserve the reactions I'll get from my crazy french drop vanish.



Really.
Ah, I don't think it will be as bad as you all make it out to be. I mean, apart from the whole blatant lying about it taking you from beginner to pro ( what an amazing selling point. ) and saying that most magicians are intimidated because it's all sleight of hand ( Yes, because magicians just hate sleight of hand. ) then it should be a decent DVD....



...yup
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jan 3, 2007 11:43PM)
Why not sell the roth dvd's but call it david roths Xtreme coin magic. then it will be young and hip and at least have good material. although I look forward to learning the finger palm.... I didn;t even know jay did coin magic really... makes me feel like he went and learned some so they could release a dvd....
Message: Posted by: in flames (Jan 5, 2007 09:44AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-04 00:43, Joshua Barrett wrote:
I didn;t even know jay did coin magic really... makes me feel like he went and learned some so they could release a dvd....
[/quote]
He probably practiced his ass off for about a year in order to release this DVD.

Thanks, but no thanks! I'm sticking with my Roth, Ammar, Rubinstein, Cummins and Stone DVDs. Guys who are at the top of the food chain when it comes to coin magic.
Message: Posted by: smitty (Jan 10, 2007 09:43PM)
"Thanks, but no thanks! I'm sticking with my Roth, Ammar, Rubinstein, Cummins and Stone DVDs. Guys who are at the top of the food chain when it comes to coin magic."


Yup, I agree, stay with the GREATS. Jay is aiming his stuff at the Penguin Kids out there. There are lots of 'kids' I'm sure, so he should sell a truckload.
Message: Posted by: tdowell (Jan 10, 2007 11:31PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-04 00:43, Joshua Barrett wrote:
Why not sell the roth dvd's but call it david roths Xtreme coin magic. then it will be young and hip and at least have good material. although I look forward to learning the finger palm.... I didn;t even know jay did coin magic really... makes me feel like he went and learned some so they could release a dvd....
[/quote]

I couldn't agree with this more. Nothing against Jay or his new DVD, all the more power to ya, but I began with Bobo and Bill Tarr learning simple sleights and moves. Neither one of those guys are particularly sexy, but they were a solid foundation for bigger things.

Later I moved on to Roth. I remember the first time I watched Roth's first Stars of Magic Tape in the late 80's and was absolutely blown away at the originality and depth of the material. That despite David's conservative coat and tie, and the 1920's piano music.

Slydini, Vernon, and other greats are often overlooked for the flashy newcomer in a shiney techno package filmed in sexy Las Vegas with drunken street walkers gasping in disbelief. Heck, today they even teach the great oldies using young "street" magician's, bar scenes, scanty clad women, and revved up hip hop music. Vernon is probably rolling over in his grave...god bless his soul.
Message: Posted by: Jeff J. (Jan 11, 2007 01:32PM)
"Vernon is probably rolling over in his grave..."

Now THAT would make a heck of a magic DVD!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 11, 2007 01:42PM)
As long as there's none of my intellectual property on the thing... not gonna comment.
Message: Posted by: magicandsoul (Jan 11, 2007 02:05PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-11 14:42, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
As long as there's none of my intellectual property on the thing... not gonna comment.
[/quote]
isn't there a word for that...?
Message: Posted by: GaryW (Jan 12, 2007 06:35PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-03 18:26, Zezenki wrote:
I know some people might think it was terrible, but Born to Perform really got me on my feet, so I am expecting another quality product.
[/quote]

Born to perform was Oz Pearlman who actually cut his teeth performing magic for real people prior to making demo videos and DVD's for Penguin... and I belive he had the good sense to walk away from them. Jay Noblezada is not Oz Pearlman... not even in the same category as far as I'm concerned.

I've read Bobo cover to cover at least 8 times and watched Roth's ECMME Volumes coutless times... I doubt nothing Jay/Penguin offers in this DVD is going to increase my skills.
Message: Posted by: CharlieC (Jan 15, 2007 03:45PM)
No comment on the dvd itself, since I haven't seen it...

But GaryW you couldn't be further from the truth. Jay "cut his teeth" way before Oz did. Jay was working restaurants, doing gigs, many years before Oz did. I know this for fact because I've seen him work restaurants in person back then. I don't blame him for joining Penguin years later.

Some of you would be shocked if you knew how short of a time Oz has been doing magic. Well, probably not... ;)
Message: Posted by: ChristopherM (Jan 17, 2007 12:13PM)
Luke Jermay has also joined forces with the Penguin company, and is starting to release some material under their brand name, I see. He is another well-read and experienced performer in their ranks.
Message: Posted by: killermagic80 (Jan 19, 2007 02:19AM)
Is there a coin bend on the DVD?
Message: Posted by: Magic Fingers (Jan 23, 2007 10:21AM)
Aren't most of you who are slating this before it's even released talking from the point of view of competant coin magicians whom the content of DVD's from the likes of Roth is perfect for. I have only been into magic for a year or so and I put most of my practice into card tricks and sleights as coins don't really do it for me. However I would like to start doing some work with coins in order to have another string to my bow but I'd prefer not to sit down and read bobo or learn from people with a dry style such as Roth. No offence to these guys but surely their stuff is for the purveyors of coin magic. as opposed to the beginner whom Jay's DVD seems perfect for.

And I think there is a coin bend on there, sure I saw it on the demo.
Fingers
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jan 24, 2007 12:37PM)
Why does it matter if roth is "dry" unless of course your worried about not being able to completely mimic the routine word for word. I saw that hes teaching edge grip on the dvd.... the concealment that roth made popular again.... just seems to me, that I would rather learn from the real master
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 24, 2007 01:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-23 11:21, Magic Fingers wrote:...people with a dry style such as Roth. No offence to these guys but surely their stuff is for the purveyors of coin magic. as opposed to the beginner...[/quote]

It is absurd to confuse a performer's presentational style with the educational nature of their material. If you feel that way about Roth, what will you do when it comes time to learn the Ramsay material? Not everyone who knows their stuff and does it beautifully is also an animated and engaging performer. Why settle for low quality flash when high quality education is still available from the folks who truly know what they are doing (and inventing). For that matter... how about just saving up and attending the NYCoinSymposium event and getting a real education live and in person?
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Jan 24, 2007 01:42PM)
Roth dry? He's incredibly witty and entertaining as far as I'm concerned. I've never seen a dry Roth performance. Wry is another story.
Message: Posted by: luke minime (Jan 26, 2007 03:15PM)
Don't ask how but I know that its good cuz ive got it! like I sed dnt ask how but its a gr8 product and I reccomend it 2 any1 who likes coin magic
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Jan 26, 2007 06:15PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-26 16:15, luke minime wrote:
Don't ask how but I know that its good cuz ive got it! like I sed dnt ask how but its a gr8 product and I reccomend it 2 any1 who likes coin magic

[/quote]

Let me guess, you work for Penquin, or you are Jay's second cousin twice removed.
Message: Posted by: edh (Jan 26, 2007 10:13PM)
Or Jay himself. :lol:
Message: Posted by: LWright (Jan 27, 2007 03:28AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-26 23:13, edh wrote:
Or Jay himself. :lol:


[/quote]

Too Funny :D :D :D
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Jan 27, 2007 08:23AM)
I didn't just want to some out and say it guys lol.
Message: Posted by: Michael Graves (Feb 10, 2007 09:45PM)
[quote]
Here for 30$ you have a dynamic DVD with moves that I'm sure you all do everyday for kids who don't the attention span to sit through a book.

[/quote]

Ladies and gents here we have the problem, kids don't want to read, for each DVD you watch read about 4 books. I had the pleasure of hearing a 13 year old kid say " I am working my way through Erdnase" I just about craped um right there, I was renewed with the thought that we may have some hope left in the future of magic.
Message: Posted by: Michael Graves (Feb 10, 2007 09:47PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-23 11:21, Magic Fingers wrote:
Aren't most of you who are slating this before it's even released talking from the point of view of competant coin magicians whom the content of DVD's from the likes of Roth is perfect for. I have only been into magic for a year or so and I put most of my practice into card tricks and sleights as coins don't really do it for me. However I would like to start doing some work with coins in order to have another string to my bow but I'd prefer not to sit down and read bobo or learn from people with a dry style such as Roth. No offence to these guys but surely their stuff is for the purveyors of coin magic. as opposed to the beginner whom Jay's DVD seems perfect for.

And I think there is a coin bend on there, sure I saw it on the demo.
Fingers
[/quote]

Ok..hope for the future lost again

That is all.....
Message: Posted by: David Boyd (Feb 10, 2007 10:17PM)
:lol:
Message: Posted by: Magic Fingers (Feb 20, 2007 08:43AM)
Yeah thatís funny Michael. But if you look at the point I was trying to make you will see that I was merely expressing a valid point differing from those of you who have had an unsolicited rant at a DVD you havenít seen all because of some rigid and nostalgic idea of how magic should be taught. It may well turn out that the DVD is rubbish but it may also do what it says on the tin and put its material across in a concise and highly presentable manner. I fall into the target audience of people who donít use coins and arenít about to read through a book on a facet of magic that is not inherently appealing to them. That is not because I donít think books have a place, I have read many books including Mark Wilsonís complete course in magic, RRTCM and Card College in the short time I have been practicing . In future read the point being made rather than taking it as some affront to coin magic and the Ďfutureí of magic in general which apparently is sepia tone photos of yourself in camp poses.

THAT is allÖ
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Feb 20, 2007 08:54AM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-20 09:43, Magic Fingers wrote:
Yeah thatís funny Michael. But if you look ...[/quote]

You might start with [i]The Structure of Magic[/i] Volumes I and II to work on your language

Or you can wallow where you are

But you get to choose.

Reading remains fundamental.
Message: Posted by: paulyjr (Feb 20, 2007 09:29AM)
Yes I too have sen many dvd clones who haven't read a book.
Dvds are fine but the power of the book enables you to develop beyond just a recreation of someone elses act.
Message: Posted by: The Conjuror (Feb 20, 2007 07:23PM)
I think there's too much slamming of DVDs going on here. Some people are visual learners (meaning they like to watch and learn) while others learn better from reading the instructions. It's simply a matter of personal preference. Getting back on the topic of this thread, I admire Jay's work and I'll be ordering this DVD tonight. I was planning on ordering it soon anyways, and now I see that it comes with Jay's "Controlled Coin Flip" free for instant download. I'll let you all know what I think of the DVD after I view it a few times, but I won't be able to compare it to any of the books mentioned on this thread. The only books I own are Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic and a few others you've probably never heard of. But I'll at least be able to tell you how well the DVD is made and how well Jay teaches each sleight/effect.
Message: Posted by: paulyjr (Feb 20, 2007 07:37PM)
I like Dvds too but the problem is they should be used in conjunction with books.
Im sure Jays dvd will be fine.
Message: Posted by: harishjose (Feb 21, 2007 06:11AM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-20 20:23, The Conjuror wrote:
I see that it comes with Jay's "Controlled Coin Flip" free for instant download.

[/quote]

Jay's?
???
Message: Posted by: The Conjuror (Feb 21, 2007 09:25PM)
I stand corrected. This is actually Anthony Miller's coin flip. Either way, I learned it and it's great. Difficult at first, but once you start to get it down it's a lot of fun. I'm comfortable with the half dollar now so it's time to move on to the quarter.
Message: Posted by: wise owl (Feb 22, 2007 02:27AM)
This thread seems totally out of the topic already. Has anyone got the DVD and would like to share their view after watch it?
Message: Posted by: harishjose (Feb 22, 2007 07:22AM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-21 22:25, The Conjuror wrote:
I stand corrected. This is actually Anthony Miller's coin flip. Either way, I learned it and it's great. Difficult at first, but once you start to get it down it's a lot of fun. I'm comfortable with the half dollar now so it's time to move on to the quarter.
[/quote]

don't you use your thumb when you flip a coin, instead of throwing it with your hand - as shown in JAY'S coin flip video?
Message: Posted by: jimbowmanjr (Feb 22, 2007 09:09AM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-30 22:36, MagicChris wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-12-30 22:11, Tom G wrote:
Too bad there isn't any mention of the months or years of practice needed.........
[/quote]

I think you only need two hours now.
[/quote]

The way things are going you will be able to hit a drive through, grab your Big Mac meal and learn a full routine before you even pull back into your driveway. I get so tired of the instant gratification attitude that seems to be quickly taking over. The funny part is marketing phrases like: "Watch this DVD and you will be performing this effect 20 minutes after you learn it" are being plastered everywhere. Bleh...just rambling now =/

--Jim
Message: Posted by: DJC (Feb 22, 2007 08:21PM)
The dvd vs book controversy has been bugging me for a while now so Im going to say something. Just as other things evolve with new technologies ( yes magic too ) so will teaching. This is a good thing. There is a stark difference between wanting instant gratification and wanting efficient knowledge transfer. It makes no sense to do things the hard way when you get the same results from another easier method. Now I understand many of the old school guys and gals get upset about people not going towards books as much (after all they put in their time and payed their dues), but actually seeing a routine or sleight in realy time is extremely important if perfomed proplerly. You can read about chocolate for years but only tasting it will really let you in on the real thing. Right now there are some great dvds out there ( books too) and likewise there's a lot of garbage (books too). In time the quality will get better overall and the art will continue to advance. And for anyone who thinks you cant learn from other sources than books you should read the Jon R column in the latest Genii.

DC
Message: Posted by: mc_magi (Feb 22, 2007 11:46PM)
Its never a good thing that people are getting lazier with learning of the arts.

What is going to be argued next, that ballet and oil painting is best learnt by copying someone from a edited video?

Give me a break.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Feb 23, 2007 12:04AM)
DVDs that take advantage of the media in intelligent ways, that take advantage of what the media has to offer without sacrificing what the printed texts has to offer will always be praised. I think Michael Close succeeded on many levels with his CLosely Guarded Secrets e-book.

I also have no problem if someone wants to use video media intelligently as a teaching tool. I DO have a problem when people cry, "I have to use DVDs because I'm a visual learner" when it is clear they have no idea what they are talking about. Visual learners learn from books. These people are LAZY learners.

I also have issues with people teaching in DVD formats because they are simply too lazy to take the time to gather their thoughts coherently enough to be able to covey them with the written word.

Keeping astride with the latest in teaching technologies is a wonderful thing - take the easy route is not.
Message: Posted by: lumberjohn (Feb 23, 2007 09:02AM)
If you can learn something the easy way or the hard way, why would you take the hard way? And haven't you ever heard that a picture is worth a thousand words? That is more appropriate than ever when it comes to magic. Some moves are very difficult to convey through the written word. I can tell you that just by all the hours I've spent going through Erdnase. I've also found it helpful to see other people's performing styles and how the way certain effects play out in real performances. It is hard to convey timing and misdirection in a book. I do agree that books are better for some things, but generally, I believe that videos have made it easier to learn magic, and I don't think that is a bad thing.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Feb 23, 2007 10:13AM)
No criticism being offered of performance DVDs and even of performance plus demonstration DVDs as instructional material.

As to the general lowering of reading standards...

Those who want to get led out into the fields to chant 'four legs good...' are welcome to that path.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Feb 23, 2007 11:06AM)
Lumberjohn,

If someone is willing to say, "I choose to learn from DVDs because they are easier" they are being honest. When they say, "I choose to learn from DVDs because I am a visual learner" they are using an excuse that does not even hold true.

THAT is my problem.

However, I think the Osterlind DVDs are a great example of how DVDs fail - in spite of the performer/teacher. Osterlind issued a series of guidebooks following the DVDs. Why? In order to communicate essential concepts required for a thorough understanding of the material that was not adequately conveyed via the "thousand word picture." (And to comment on mistakes that were made in the filming of the material).

I do not feel that Osterlind was in error, I think he was smart enough to realize that the media of video is incapable of efficiently conveying all the information neccessary to truly understand - to truly LEARN - a piece of magic. He also realized that unlike a book, it is almost impossible to convey the ideal model that a trick should strive for.

Of course, videos can offer something we cannot get from books. I know that seeing a move performed properly can be a revelation. But it is clear that they are also incapable of offering everything one can get from books. If used intelligently, they could be a powerful educational media.

But compare the numbers of times they are used intelligently to the number of times we get someone who can barely put a sentence together engaging in nothing more than a game of show and tell - but at least there are cool graphics. Also, while I think there is value in seeing the moves in Bobo performed correctly, my question is "Has Noblezada spent the years studying, learning these moves that he is qualified to offer authoritatize performances thereof? What was his research proceedure? Which books did he consult? What approached to performance has he adopted?"

You know that Ackerman and JAmes have spent years of their lives uncovering everything they can concerning the Erdnase projects on which they are working. You know that if Roth were to undertake the Bobo project, that he would have not done so before exhausting the printed record.

Is Noblezada capable of offering an authoritative work AND what past project indicate that this will be an intelligent use of the DVD media and not merely a game of magic show and tell?
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Feb 23, 2007 12:06PM)
All ill say is that everytime I have had a routine/"move"/ect ect in both formats, dvd and book, the book is always more detailed
Message: Posted by: DJC (Feb 23, 2007 12:29PM)
Im not saying the written word is a bad thing. Actually a combination of written and demonstration with lecture would be far superior and always has. Before there were many books on the subject of magic one would have to know a superior magician or join a club of some sort. I wonder if those people had the same animosity towards books? Frankly speaking (as a professional trainer) a lot of books that Ive read on magic by some of the so called great magicians have failed miserably in teaching. Sometimes laziness or incompetence on the part of the author is just as bad as the same for the reader ( dvds no exception). People need to understand that great performers are not necessarily great teachers. Teaching is a completely different artform. As far as the Noblezada dvd. It is what it is. If bad then why? (not just because its a dvd) and if its good then also why? And to the comment by Mc magi, Try reading how to do balet without ever seeing it. Read for years if you want. Then lets put you on stage and read the reviews.

DC
Message: Posted by: lumberjohn (Feb 23, 2007 02:57PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-23 12:06, truthteller wrote:

If someone is willing to say, "I choose to learn from DVDs because they are easier" they are being honest. When they say, "I choose to learn from DVDs because I am a visual learner" they are using an excuse that does not even hold true. THAT is my problem.

However, I think the Osterlind DVDs are a great example of how DVDs fail - in spite of the performer/teacher.. . .[Osterlind] was smart enough to realize that the media of video is incapable of efficiently conveying all the information neccessary to truly understand - to truly LEARN - a piece of magic. [I]t is clear that [videos] are also incapable of offering everything one can get from books.

[M]y question is "Has Noblezada spent the years studying, learning these moves that he is qualified to offer authoritatize performances thereof? What was his research proceedure? Which books did he consult? What approached to performance has he adopted?"
[/quote]

TT:
It is probably true that people who say they prefer DVDs to books because they are "visual learners" are guilty of a linguistic non-sequitur for the reasons you state. But I suspect what they really mean is that they prefer watching someone explain how an effect is done while demonstrating the moves as opposed to reading a description in a book. Rather than attacking these people as "lazy" learners, or saying that they are just resorting to an "excuse," I would grant them the benefit of the doubt that some people really do find video a more effective means of conveying information than books. This is simply a recognition of their learning style.

Also, I would not state categorically that as a rule, DVD's "fail" to convey information as well as books or that they are inferior to books. There are good and bad books just as there are good and bad videos. I can think of examples in which I have learned an effect better from video than book and vice-versa. It just depends on the effect in question and the quality of the book/video. Just because Osterlind thought it necessary to supplement his DVD series with written documentation, that does not suggest that such documentation is necessary, or even advisable, for all DVD releases.

You have asked legitimate questions about Noblezada, but these questions would be just as valid if Noblezada had published a book on the same subject. I would want to know who he is and what his qualifications are before I purchased any teaching material from him in any format.

I agree with you that there is much bad product out there in the DVD market, but that is no reason to slam the medium, or the people who legitimately find DVDs more effective than books in learning magic.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 23, 2007 03:00PM)
I don't think Brad is slamming the medium as a whole. He has some very good points. I don't plan on buying this dvd but I would be curious to read an intelligent review as Noblezada does seem to be a pretty articulate guy who's got some chops and loves magic.
Message: Posted by: lumberjohn (Feb 24, 2007 11:49AM)
The fact is that books have no advantage over DVD's as a medium. Anything that books can do, DVD's can do better. Anything that can be written in a book can be said on a DVD, and with the words can be added so much more not possible with books. I will certainly agree that most DVD's on the market don't take full advantage of this potential, but it is absurd to cling to an old technology when a new, and much improved one, is available. I believe that the quality of the average magic book is higher than the quality of the average magic video today, but that is because books are more established and feature more experienced performers who have not yet made the switch to DVD. But as more and more people become comfortable with the medium, that will change and DVD's will replace books as the magic teaching medium of choice.
Message: Posted by: jimbowmanjr (Feb 24, 2007 12:33PM)
My biggest beef with visual learning is the clone effect that happens when watching someone perform an effect. I will freely admit that I suck completely at learning coin sleights from a book I need some visual aide to help but I will not ignore the subtleties that can be learned from a book. I have Bobo's and I have tried my very best to work on the sleights in there. After getting frustrated with a few things I went ahead and ordered David Roth's Expert Coin Magic set to help me along a bit.

Another prime example of this was when I bought R. Paul Wilson's RRTCM as well as the book itself. There were plenty of things that were not covered in the DVD volumes themselves and Wilson repeatedly asks you to follow along in the book throughout the DVD's.

I think DVD's have their place but that should not come at the expense of continuing to learn from books. A single 90-minute DVD is simply not going to encapsulate every possible aspect you could have learned from a 300-page book. I am not really sure why anyone would want one medium to completely replace the other. Both mediums can co-exist just fine and people make their own choice as to which they will learn from best, or just learn best from utilizing both mediums.

--Jim
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Feb 24, 2007 05:20PM)
I always would rather have a book over a dvd anyday. The truth is, that most new releases are in dvd forum. I have always said that the main reason I perfer books is that I can find my own way of performing the effect. The moves are taught, and the basic patter is layed out for you in book form, but the little added touches are for you to put in the routine. I find that there are a lot of copy cat's out there, and I do not mean this as an insult. I can watch them perform silver dream, and then watch Justin Miller do it on the dvd and they are exactly the same, almost word for word. When learning from a dvd, you also pick up the instructors way he performs the trick, and more so then not, the way they perform, and the way I perform are not and same. I think dvd is an excellent way to learn the effect, but you should only use it to learn the effect, not the presentation. That should be left to you, and the way your perform.
Message: Posted by: edh (Feb 24, 2007 07:14PM)
I think DVD's are good for illustrating how a slieght/card effect should look like in realtime. Sometimes books do not convey how slieght should look like. The mechanics are in more detail in books. Once you have seen how a slieght/card effect should look like in realtime then you can tweak it to your personel style.
Message: Posted by: DJC (Feb 24, 2007 08:20PM)
I think each medium has advantages and disadvantages. Ive written incredibly detailed biomechanical anaylisis papers on specific athletic movements but if someone asked me what the best way to learn was I would take them to the field. Fact is, any good teacher would have many different mediums for his/her student to learn from. In magic why try to demonize or attack people for the use of newer learning methods. Frankly speaking, I feel someone devoted totally to books isn't any smarter than someone using just dvds or someone learning just from a magic club. I would encourage and hope that any passionate student would seek as many sources as possible to learn and become better. And get this. Even some value can be obtained from someone doing a poor job demonstrating or teaching. It shows the wise student what not to do which can be very beneficial.

DC
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Feb 24, 2007 08:42PM)
[quote]
On 2007-02-24 12:49, lumberjohn wrote:
The fact is that books have no advantage over DVD's as a medium.
[/quote]

Yes, they do. And DVDs have an advatage over books - on some ways.

DVDs are a linear media. Even though one can go back with the scan feature, the communication of information, non-visual information, is innefficient. Yes, you could have an 8 hour monologue of the performer going over the critical theoretical and philosphical issues surrounding a trick, but this information is best communicated through the printed text. (Hence the fact that Osterlind's guidebooks were a really smart addition to his DVDs - they communicated critical information that would be inefficiently communicated through a visual media.) No one is arguing that a visual media cannot convey visual information - just that MAGIC is more than juggling, it transcends technique.

As a student, I can skim a book. I can stop at an interesting paragraph and ponder over its implications. I can look through a chapter and know what type of information it has to offer, and choose to spend time there or not. With a DVD, I don't know if the best idea is going to be hidden in an hour long interview.

Now, I will say this, for AUDITORY learners, having access to theoretical information in an audible form IS a help. But you never here people say, "I like DVDs because I am an auditory learner."

Finally, no one is here to demonize DVDs. DVDs can do some things very well, but not everything. The same is true of books. My beef, is when people make excuses.
Message: Posted by: DJC (Feb 24, 2007 11:08PM)
I whole heartedly agree with you on not liking excuses. I do however get tired of the constant bickering over which one is better ( dvds or books ) They are all good if they convey knowledge well.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Feb 24, 2007 11:10PM)
I do my best learning MISreading text and sometimes just watching videos without the sound on.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Feb 25, 2007 03:16PM)
I know what you mean, Jonathan. I have misread sleights and actually made them work better for me in the long run. Turning the sound off is a great idea.
Message: Posted by: Ireland (Feb 26, 2007 09:19PM)
Since Truthteller accurately described one approach to learning styles....ie auditory, kinesthetic and visual..... if you ask any teacher what 'visual' learning applies to, they will tell you it refers to a learner watching someone DO something and then attempting to imitate those actions. It applies to reading only in the most general sense that one is using eyes....but this is not what is commonly referred to as a 'visual learner.' Many people find it much easier to learn the Slydini knots by watching them on dvd or learning a rope tie via dvd....they may not at all be able to learn this from the written word. So I wonder if what you refer to as 'lazy' is mostly people trying to avoid learning through those modes they have experienced as frustrating to them, taking an inordinate amount of time and makes relearning the same thing later almost as difficult. When we are learning magic we are mostly talking about learning a physical action, something many of us just find easier to learn watching dvd's... and I hope continue to do so without any guilt. So what if this information comes more quickly and easier to a younger generation via non-printed modes... in my view, in this context, the less dues paid the better! Now, if I wanted to learn the history of an effect or about the personal life of an inventor or performance theories, then certainly a book for most of us would be preferable... but for skill-building you can't top being shown by someone.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Feb 27, 2007 12:29AM)
With all due respect, Ireland, the learning while "doing" makes one a kinesthetic learner. Do a quick google search on "visual learners" and you will see it all spelled out very clearly. Not only do the current google searches bear this out, it is also what I was taught when I was receiving my Master's degree in education.

http://www.readinginstruction.com/visuallearners.html http://www.nalandainstitute.org/aspfiles/visual.asp
http://www.learning-styles-online.com/style/visual-spatial/
http://parentcenter.babycenter.com/refcap/bigkid/glearning/67824.html

The fact is, many magic books are hard to read. (On a personal note, it was because I learned how to read magic books that I was eventually able to decipher my math texts which were always completely incomprehensible to me. Learning how to read some magic books may even be harder than learning how to read a regular book.) Couple that with the fact that many people - especially young people today - have poor reading skills and you can see why DVDs are popular.

Demonstrations are EASIER to watch (for most) and take less time to view. Of course, visual learners can respond well to a demonstration (though in most of the literature, it is reading which is considered the stronger domain of the visual learner), but the two are not mutually exclusive. Meaning, if someone is a visual learner who responds well to a demonstration, then there is no reason they would also not respond well to printed instruction - unless the problem was not with the learning modality but with their ability to read and willingness to devote the time required to read. In short, the reason they prefer demonstrations to reading is not because they are a visual learner, it is because reading is simply harder for them. (or they are auditory or kinesthetic learners!)

DVDs convey visual information very well. However, there is more to learning a piece of magic than just mimicking technique. It is not my intent to say that books are BETTER than DVDs - but I will say that books are better than DVD's in a lot of respects. The converse is also true. In each case, though, the tools must be wielded effectively.

My issue in this thread was to comment that most people ARE visual learners (at least according to the research done when I was in school) and that visual learners learn well by reading. If you are a kinesthetic or auditory learner, then yes, books will prove challenging. But we don't see people writing, "I like DVDs because I am a kinesthetic learner." It seems that most people have glommed onto the "visual learner" concept because it sounds right, not because they understand what it truly means or know what modality in which they truly excel.
Message: Posted by: Ireland (Feb 27, 2007 09:02AM)
Thanks for the time you took Truthteller to include the above information.... all the others have probably left this thread long ago shaking their heads!
You're comments were very good and I can 'see' how learning by doing things, manipulating objects or going on excursions would make one more of a kinesthetic learner. So yes I admit I was in error in my understanding of this term. I was taught in NLP and in this therapy approach, a kinesthetic learner includes the notion of emotion as well ( ie not only physically feeling an object but also how one 'feels' emotionally about the object). I overemphasized the second part and you're right, the learning by doing is kinesthetic. I think I was combining two steps here..... reading or watching a dvd would appeal to a visual learner ... it appeals to me....but when I take this the next step and start learning knots with my hands, I then become a kinesthetic learner....does this make sense?? Cheers.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Feb 27, 2007 09:32AM)
The "emotional" aspect of whcih you speak may have been taken from Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences - which is different from learning modalities. Also, there was a popular book a few years back on one's Emotional Quotient, which also, I believe, referenced Gardner's work.

I thank you for your post - and it just goes to illustrate the problem. Many people have taken the meaning of something specific and - perhaps based on its name alone - applied it incorrectly in order to rationalize their preference for DVDs over books.

I would rather see people write, "I find it hard to read magic books" or "I don't want to take the time to read magic books" or "I have a difficult time reading" or even "I just want to see how the trick works" rather than see "DVDs are better for me because I am a visual learner". The first examples are honest. The latter is a desperate and unfounded attempt at rationalization.
Message: Posted by: lumberjohn (Feb 28, 2007 04:12PM)
I disagree that these people are dishonest or making "a desperate and unfounded attempt at rationalization." While I don't disagree with your statement of the academic definition of "visual learning," I do not believe this is how the average person would define the term. At a minimum, the term is ambiguous and means different things to different people.

I think what these people are trying to say is that they find it easier to learn from DVDs than books, for whatever reason. Being vaguely aware of the different ways people learn, visual, auditory, kinesthetic, they might say the reason they prefer DVDs is because they are visual learners. But just because they are not using the correct academic terminology is no reason to assume they are dishonest, desperate rationalizers. That seems a bit harsh.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Mar 3, 2007 06:07PM)
Soemtimes the truth is harsh.

"Visual Learning/Learner" is educational language, jargon. Much likes doctors and scientists use terms in specific ways, so do educators. If someone chooses to use the word improperly, then they are displaying their ignornance. When you look at the way it is presented, it is clear that many are using it as an excuse. As such, it fails because the "condition" they are claiming to have does not apply to the situation. They would be better served doing as you have written and simply saying, "I find it easier to learn from DVDs than books." That is an honest statement which could stem from many reasons.

But to say you are a "visual learner" is the same as me saying I am overwieght because of a "glandular problem". I am ascribing it to a real condition, defined by real words, in real ways - regardless of whether or not I understand them. The fact is, I am NOT overweight because of a glandular problem, I am overweight because I eat too much and am lazy. But it is easier to blame it on something else, and not take credit for it myself, no?
Message: Posted by: edh (Mar 3, 2007 07:55PM)
Unless, of course, you actually do have a glandular problem.
Message: Posted by: lumberjohn (Mar 4, 2007 12:04AM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-03 19:07, truthteller wrote:
If someone chooses to use the word improperly, then they are displaying their ignornance. When you look at the way it is presented, it is clear that many are using it as an excuse. As such, it fails because the "condition" they are claiming to have does not apply to the situation.
But to say you are a "visual learner" is the same as me saying I am overwieght because of a "glandular problem". [/quote]

I disagree that they are "choosing" to use the word improperly. As you state, this is a term used by educators in academic writings to describe the different ways in which people best assimilate new knowledge. While their use of "visual learning" in this context may indeed signify ignorance, I would say it is ignorance of the proper use of what "visual learning" means in the academic world.
I don't believe that they are saying they are "visual learners" as an "excuse." Why would they even need an excuse? They feel they learn better from DVDs and honestly believe this is what is meant by a "visual" learning preference. They probably don't know why they seem to prefer DVDs to books, and probably see no shame in their preference.
This is what distinguishes the situation from those who claim their obesity is the result of a glandular problem (and as noted above, there are some people who do have such problems). But for those who don't, they surely feel guilty for their condition and thus wish to shift the blame to something they can't control. Those who prefer DVDs to books, in my experience, have no analogous sense of guilt. Therefore, they have no reason to create excuses. If pressed to explain their preference, they may recall some discussion of learning preferences they heard on TV or read about in Reader's Digest and say they are visual learners. While this may not appropriately explain their preference, they are not being dishonest. They are just wrong.
Message: Posted by: juan king (Mar 9, 2007 03:38PM)
I just got a e-mail from peguins magic saying it is nobendzada's birthday.

Happy Birthday Nobendzada!
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Mar 10, 2007 02:02AM)
Blah blah blah blah...how about we stay on topic, eh? I was over a friends house who just recently bought the dvd's and I have to say I was kinda impressed. I for one didn't know he could do much with coins, but after watching, he's been practicing a lot. Is the the next david neighbors? no. but is the dvd worth buying for a person new to coin magic and wants to learn a decent amount of sleights? yes
Message: Posted by: joseph (Mar 10, 2007 06:40AM)
Finally...A mini review!..Thanks, lunatik..... :) ..
Message: Posted by: wise owl (Mar 10, 2007 04:01PM)
Whether book or DVD is better is a general argument. I don't know why it started up and causes 3 pages in this particular thread.

I got the DVD recently. It is very well presented with detail explaination and shots frm difft angles. It also have a section only showing the sleights for quick reference.

I think it is good quality, good materials and good price too. Don't know why it causes so much arguments here (even before people watched the content)!!
Message: Posted by: The Conjuror (Mar 14, 2007 08:48AM)
I finally received my copy of the DVD and here's what I think of it. The first thing that caught my attention was the production. The editing is well done, but the quality of the video is a tad sub-par. It seems like the DVD was imaged at a slightly faster speed than most, or perhaps the ISO file had to be compressed. This isn't something that should turn you away from the purchasing the DVD... just something I noticed from a geek's perspective. As for the content of the DVD, I believe Jay Noblezada is an excellent teacher. He starts off explaining why it's important to be good with coins. He then teaches you (in detail) how each palm is done, how to transition from holding a coin normally to each palm, a vanish for each palm, an appearance for each palm, and then proceeds to show various tricks and 4 routines. Remember: each sleight/trick/routine is taught well and shown repeatedly in great detail.

Would I recommend this DVD to anyone who is interested in coin magic? NO. The reason why is because it appears to be geared towards beginners. I'm guessing most of the people on this thread are already fluent in the basics of coin magic, and therefore will find the first half of this DVD useless. When I bought this DVD I was still a beginner in coin magic. I only knew the classic palm, finger palm, french drop, and a couple "put" vanishes. This DVD has taught me MANY basics, whether they are palms, transitions into palms, vanishes, appearances, or fast visual tricks. I have yet to start learning any of the 4 routines included (that won't be for a while; still practicing the basics). I honestly think that this DVD alone can bring me out of my "Beginner" status in coin magic. There is a lot of material to learn on this DVD. Once I have all my favorite effects mastered, I don't think anyone will be calling me a beginner anymore.

I recommend it to anyone who has a genuine interest in coin sleights, but has little knowledge or experience with coin magic. Hope this review is helpful to all those on the thread asking for a review.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Mar 14, 2007 09:33AM)
I'm still waiting to hear why a beginner should buy this instead of some of the already existing dvd's for that level such as roth's. that's why it sparks 3 pages
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Mar 14, 2007 09:37AM)
Silence the sock puppets!

What's on it and how much fun is it to watch?
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Mar 14, 2007 09:40AM)
I watched it and it wasn;t fun. but I'm that kind of way. I have a hard time watching some guy try to be a "kewl d00d" with the hip hop and coin magic
Message: Posted by: Barrett_James (May 14, 2007 02:38PM)
Wow, three months and four pages of post and finally a review of the actual DVD. All the thoughts were well received by myself but I felt we got a little off topic for a bit. Anyone else seen or have an opinion of the DVD? Anyone?

Regards,

Barrett James

p.s. "I think you only need two hours now" is in the running for POST OF THE YEAR!!!!
Message: Posted by: Amy_Candler (May 15, 2007 01:39AM)
It's a great DVD with lots of explanations. But the only thing I don't like about it is that there is too much going on in the background. Nice production though. It's funny. My first time watching it, I used to notice all of the birds flying by. LOL
Message: Posted by: LWright (May 15, 2007 05:32AM)
I thought it was fun to watch and the explanations were good.

but there was nothing really outstanding on it and some of the explanations aren't the best and leave out a few details.

I'd recommend it to a complete beginner in coin magic though. It's easy to learn from barring the fact some of the effects aren't fully explained.
Message: Posted by: zachdotcom (May 15, 2007 06:19PM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-14 10:33, Joshua Barrett wrote:
I'm still waiting to hear why a beginner should buy this instead of some of the already existing dvd's for that level such as roth's.
[/quote]

They shouldn't. They just will because of the "kewl d00d" factor you mentioned. If you build it, they will come.
Message: Posted by: The Amazing Noobini (May 18, 2007 06:18PM)
I've thought about getting it. I don't care how much uncooler a video by a kid with greasy hair is than a dusty first edition signed by the guy who invented the crimp.

First of all I am a complete idiot when it comes to coins and these Penguinutionist DVDs nearly always teach you something you can get to do almost right away so that you get at least a slight feeling that there may be hope.

You may not use any of it a year later, but at least they don't have to many walls that seem unclimbable.

I also think it's a good idea to go back and revisit really basic things. Only when you know something fluidly already are you able to notice every little fine detail and notice things you have never actually done that way yourself.

Apart from that possible benefit, there is no reason why it should impress those who are already very skilled with coins. It's a DVD for beginners. Like me.
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (May 19, 2007 07:11PM)
I got this about a month ago and I agree with the above post. I Was just a beginer with coins (I'm a card guy) when I saw this and said "What the heck, I'll try it out". I'm glad I got this DVD. It gives you the basics so that you can get started with coin magic and a couple of good routines. Jay seems to really try to make sure that you understand what he is talking about in the explinations.

So long story short, I got it, learned some cool stuff and it has really turned me on to coin magic so that now I know its something that I like to do.

Great for beginners. If your well versed in coin magic, Probably not for you.
Message: Posted by: K_B_G (May 20, 2007 12:04PM)
Its called marketing my friends, its called business and its called penguin and Jay trying to make some money from magic other than spending endless hours raging on every single post like an authority.. One more coin DVD added to the list of greats isn't such a bad thing. It creates choice to a wide market of magicians all looking for something different and appealing to their individual inner child. Open Mind, Open Mind, Open MindÖ Lay off the poor beginners and penguin..Most folks are already giving their opinions here like authorities for three pages before the DVD has even been released? Don't hate the player hate the game...whoops can't beleive I said that I might just become a cool Hip Hop Dood!
Message: Posted by: jmuscold (Aug 13, 2007 10:10PM)
I just bought this and have not seen it, I am just hoping that it has a couple of good routines that I will learn, and some basic sleights that get me there.

I like the dvd born to perform, it gives 4 really good routines (rather then a bunch of mediocre ones) that are not neccesarily easy to do but are rewarding to learn.

I hope this dvd does for coins what born to perform did for cards.
Message: Posted by: jonxodus (Aug 14, 2007 12:51AM)
This is sort of the "Born to peform" coins. It has really good solid material in there and good routines. An excellent video for a beginner in coins. Good teaching and good content.
Message: Posted by: Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse (May 30, 2013 12:01PM)
Im sorry but I think that this is a great dvd for beginners. It teacher you all the basic sleights and some tricks to get you started. However, you guys are right there isn't any pro material in this dvd and you are going to have to put in the work to do the tricks. A lot of you like to tell people to get bobo but you have to understand that most people wont understand the material right off and will develop bad habits. I like this dvd for beginners.
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Jun 18, 2013 06:30PM)
The DVD is not that bad. It provides some great tricks for beginners.
Message: Posted by: jcrabtree2007 (Jun 20, 2013 12:18PM)
I learned how to roll a coin from this video.
Great beginner DVD. I still do a few of the routines on here.
Message: Posted by: Zombie Magic (Nov 22, 2013 03:51PM)
It's in the Cool Box today:

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/1581

It says they also give you the Controlled Coin Flip ( http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/1607 ). That's quiet a bit for $4.95.

I first learned coin magic from Bobo's book. I still do the Professor's Kangaroo Coins from Stars Of Magic. Given that, I happen to think this In the Beginning There Were Coins DVD is excellent.